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Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: Monte_Smith] #2022907
03/02/16 12:22 AM
03/02/16 12:22 AM
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jacksonville,FLORIDA
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Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
Originally Posted By Jeremiah
I'm getting ready to dyno tune my new 511" low deck this week or next. A few questions:

1) Should I use an inline nitrous filter?

2) Plug gap?

3) How do I purge the fuel solenoid? Through the engine with the bottle turned off?

4) At what RPM should I hit it on the dyno? 5k?

5) The designed max RPM on this combo is 7500. How high should we let it go with the nitrous? Don't worry about my stock block I had it blessed by a holy man.
You nitrous solenoids should have filters, if you bought a kit. Do you fill your own bottles, or have them filled. Most guys who fill use a filter in the fill line to avoid possible contamination in mother bottle. So if this is done no need for an in car filter......But, if won't hurt to run an inline filter.

Plug gap .020-.025

You shouldn't need to purge the fuel solenoid, but if you feel you need to, turn the pump on, crack the line and then retighten. Without engine running of course.

4500-5000 will be fine on activation rpm. If you plan to turn the motor to 7500, that's where you should go


I agree, but I'm running that Wilson pro flow bottle nut that is shaped like a cone and has the filter in side it.
I also run my plug gap at .030" on a single 200 shot and 93 octane but I pull out about 9* of timing too.


2000 Dakota R/T, 408 magnum, 727, Indy heads
1000cfm 4150 carb, 93 octane fuel.
motor; 10.258 @ 132.78
200 shot; 9.262 @ 144.69
racemagnum
Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: OUTLAWD] #2023063
03/02/16 10:31 AM
03/02/16 10:31 AM
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Posts: 367
michigan
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michigan
Originally Posted By OUTLAWD
Turbo Guys: Ever give any thought to an electric WG actuator?

I guess the way most handle it now are with compressed air and electronic boost controllers.

Many OEMs are going to electric actuators for WG control, as it allows more flexibility (i.e. opening WG at part throttle for increased fuel economy).

While we are not interested in fuel consumption, the flexibility this could offer might be interesting, during staging, etc. I can't help but look at the actuator on my desk and think about adapting it to an external WG.

I guess no sense in reinventing the wheel, but just thinking out loud...



I use the ams500 with CO2 it only has two stages one is for launch and the other is for normal abuse and kicks in when stage one is no longer in use (brake pedal,and toggle switch wired in series controlled for stage 1) stage 2 is controlled using carb hat boost ref)
Once i get the new combo installed ill control stage one off the transbrake.
Aaron


Check out my build on Facebook Ttoad Hurley its updated regularly
Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: TomsCharger70] #2023182
03/02/16 02:50 PM
03/02/16 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted By TomsCharger70
Nitrous question.

My car runs 10.45 to 10.50 N/A. The BO time in the class I run is 10.10sec, so need to gain about a 1/2 second. It´s not allot, but its still about two car lengths at the finish line, so.. I don´t know if I´ll be able to gain the needed 1/2 second just with chassies tuning (Cal-Tracks, AFCO DA shocks front/rear) and going with a taller slick tire. I ran with a 29.3" diam. Hoosier QTP tire, going 30x9" Hoosier slicks this season. 60ft times kinda suck, got the 60ft down to 1.51sec, but haven´t been able to get the car off the line with out tire spin. I hope with real slicks and some chassies adjustments I´ll be able to get the 60ft times down around 1.45sec. (Hope it would run a 60ft under 1.45sec.)

I don´t think I´d need much nitrous assistance, something like 75hp shot should get me where I need to be?

..any ways, to my questions...

1. Do I need to run higher octane fuel if only adding some 75hp of nitrous? (The engine has 10.8:1 comp. I run on 98oct. pump fuel, don´t know what´s similar in the Usa.)

2. Should I run a separate fuel system or would I be able to run a 75 to 100hp shot with 98oct fuel, just by adding a second regulator for the nitrous fuel feed? (Run a Magnafuel 275 pump)

3. How critical is the carb tune before adding nitrous? Right now the carb (1050 cmf Dominator) runs on the fat side. At full throttle the A/F is around 10.4.

4. How much timing needs to be pulled if adding 75hp shot of nitrous?

5. Should I forget about the whole nitrous deal and just focus on getting the car off the line and get the carb tune better...

-Sorry if my quesions seem dumb, but Im new to nitrous so... I´ll probably have more questions later...

Thanks!
/Tom
You need to forget about nitrous until you fix THIS

Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: tboomer] #2023184
03/02/16 02:55 PM
03/02/16 02:55 PM
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Nitrous doesn't care what octane rating the fuel is. At the Pump Gas Drags, we ran a 600" motor on two foggers on pump gas and went low 8s on a very light tune up. The TIMING is what matters. The lower the fuel octane, the lower the timing you run.

Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: D-50] #2023190
03/02/16 03:00 PM
03/02/16 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted By D-50
I am in the same boat as TomsCharger70. I run 6.20's in the 1/8 and I need to pick up around 2-3 tenths to run in my local 6.0 heads up class. I was thinking around trying the same amount of NOS as him. I am also on pump gas but 93 octane. I need the same info as him.
Don't worry about putting "just enough" nitrous on it to run the number. Put a 150 shot on it and then leave on it and shut it off.......or leave on motor and then turn spray on and run hard at the stripe.

Just as an example, a customer has a Nova with a mild smallblock in it. Runs 7.teens on motor. We turn a 150 hit on at 3 tenths out and it goes 5.70s. Turn it on at 4 tenths out, it goes 6.00s.

Have another customer who does the opposite. Guys catch him early.....THEN his nitrous comes on and they can't run him back down.

Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: tboomer] #2023235
03/02/16 04:05 PM
03/02/16 04:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,241
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Monte...are some combos just THAT much more nitrous friendly? I mean my car will go 6.teens on motor most of the time, but goes 5.70s w/ a 250 hit on at 3 tenths out.
Yet your customers car goes from 7.teens to 5.70s on a 150 hit.
I know I have a long way to go w/ my car, but seeing results like this make me wonder what I'm doing, lol. Or is this yet another result of running a nearly 2 ton car?


CHIP
'70 hemicuda street car...8.91 at 150.5 mph w/ 4.10s, 8.97 at 152.5 mph w/ 3.54s so far
'69 road runner 440 w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed...Dad's ride
'71 Demon 340 resto project
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax...toy hauler
'16 Grand Caravan SXT...baby hauler
Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: tboomer] #2023284
03/02/16 04:57 PM
03/02/16 04:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 258
Stockholm, Sweden
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TomsCharger70 Offline
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Thank You Monte_Smith for your answer beer

/Tom

Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: TomsCharger70] #2023350
03/02/16 06:46 PM
03/02/16 06:46 PM
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Posts: 9,620
Weddington, N.C.
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Thanks Monte!

In just a few well-chosen words you clarified at least 2 'Cause & Effect' elements (ignition lead/octane and Timing the duration of the hit for tuning vs trying to pinpoint the precise amount of the hit) of using spray that I didn't completely have my head around...that's awesome!
beer


Last edited by Streetwize; 03/02/16 06:47 PM.

WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

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In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: tboomer] #2023372
03/02/16 07:20 PM
03/02/16 07:20 PM
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Here is another question about nitrous I have been thinking about. Might sound dumb, but I just can´t get myhead around on how it works..

So... When you add nitrous, you also have to lower the engines timing. Ok, so this is what Im having trouble understanding.

Lets say you take out 6 degrees of timing from a N/A engine, that would lower the engines horsepower by X amount. So lets say lowering the timing by 6 degres lowers the engines horsepower output by 100hp. So if you add 150hp of nitrous, wouldnt that just give you an added 50hp???

How does this work?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.

/Tom

Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: TomsCharger70] #2023428
03/02/16 09:16 PM
03/02/16 09:16 PM
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n20mstr Offline
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Originally Posted By TomsCharger70
Here is another question about nitrous I have been thinking about. Might sound dumb, but I just can´t get myhead around on how it works..

So... When you add nitrous, you also have to lower the engines timing. Ok, so this is what Im having trouble understanding.

Lets say you take out 6 degrees of timing from a N/A engine, that would lower the engines horsepower by X amount. So lets say lowering the timing by 6 degres lowers the engines horsepower output by 100hp. So if you add 150hp of nitrous, wouldnt that just give you an added 50hp???

How does this work?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.




/Tom


Nitrous speeds up the burn .. That simple. Some engines need more retard because of the quench, cam etc. retard slows the burn rate, im sure Monte will have a better explanation , more detailed


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: tboomer] #2023501
03/02/16 11:20 PM
03/02/16 11:20 PM
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Nitrous drastically increases the efficiency of the motor, by creating a quicker and cleaner burn. The quicker and cleaner the burn, the less spark lead the motor needs. No different than a motor with poor heads needing 40* of timing to run hard and when you put a better head on it, then it only needs 32* to run hard. You have made the motor more efficient. Timing does NOT make power. Timing is only when you light the fire in the hole in an attempt to have a complete burn by about 15* ATDC. When you think about it, advanced timing is fighting what you are trying to do. The sooner you light it, the more the motor has to overcome in the increasing cylinder pressure of lighting the fire early. In a perfect world, the closer to TDC you could light the fire and burn it completely by 15 after, the more power you could make by freeing the motor up. Unfortunately engines are just not THAT efficient yet. I don't put timing in until it slows down and run the max I can. I pull timing OUT until it slows down. If it runs the same at 36* as it does at 40*, the latter is doing you no good and only increases your chances of pre-ignition.

Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2023508
03/02/16 11:32 PM
03/02/16 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Monte...are some combos just THAT much more nitrous friendly? I mean my car will go 6.teens on motor most of the time, but goes 5.70s w/ a 250 hit on at 3 tenths out.
Yet your customers car goes from 7.teens to 5.70s on a 150 hit.
I know I have a long way to go w/ my car, but seeing results like this make me wonder what I'm doing, lol. Or is this yet another result of running a nearly 2 ton car?
Could be several things. The smallblock is probably overcammed and has too much head to be an efficient N/A combo, for the given compression and other things. Converter is also probably a little tight. The small shot helps the efficiency of the motor and well as helps the converter on shift recovery.

In your case, I would think a 250 shot should pick you up more than 3 tenths. The converter may be a little loose. What does it fall back to on the shift on the motor and on the hose? If on the spray the drop really tightens, you probably need more stator. It could also be that the motor is fairly efficient as is and the nitrous is just not helping a lot because of cam, exhaust, whatever. HEMIs can be tough on spray. It could be that it just needs a lot more to really run....or the cam has too much overlap and is just putting the charge out the pipes. Hard to say. Look into converter question first.

How much mph does it pick up on spray?

Last edited by Monte_Smith; 03/02/16 11:36 PM.
Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: turbo toad] #2023522
03/02/16 11:46 PM
03/02/16 11:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,250
Hot Rod Ridge
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My top ring is total seal PN 100098
My 2nd is PN 002629
I called total seal and told the it's a street driving big block with 30 pounds of boost lol

Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2023525
03/02/16 11:56 PM
03/02/16 11:56 PM
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n20mstr Offline
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Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Monte...are some combos just THAT much more nitrous friendly? I mean my car will go 6.teens on motor most of the time, but goes 5.70s w/ a 250 hit on at 3 tenths out.
Yet your customers car goes from 7.teens to 5.70s on a 150 hit.
I know I have a long way to go w/ my car, but seeing results like this make me wonder what I'm doing, lol. Or is this yet another result of running a nearly 2 ton car?


Get rid of the .3 delay. Hit it from the get go and I bet it's a lot quicker .


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: n20mstr] #2023687
03/03/16 09:46 AM
03/03/16 09:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,029
Victoria, Australia
Ian Offline
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Ian  Offline
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Victoria, Australia
Originally Posted By n20mstr
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Monte...are some combos just THAT much more nitrous friendly? I mean my car will go 6.teens on motor most of the time, but goes 5.70s w/ a 250 hit on at 3 tenths out.
Yet your customers car goes from 7.teens to 5.70s on a 150 hit.
I know I have a long way to go w/ my car, but seeing results like this make me wonder what I'm doing, lol. Or is this yet another result of running a nearly 2 ton car?


Get rid of the .3 delay. Hit it from the get go and I bet it's a lot quicker .

agree my junk goes 1.34 60 ft on a 275 radial hitting it straight out of the hole on the bottle sb 408 ,you may need good shocks


1.37 60 ft [email]6.0@113[/email] [email]9.57@141[/email] 408 glide 3550lbs
new video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Xvq3ZObywQE
Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: Monte_Smith] #2023758
03/03/16 12:38 PM
03/03/16 12:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,241
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
an8sec70cuda  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,241
Marion, South Carolina [><]
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Monte...are some combos just THAT much more nitrous friendly? I mean my car will go 6.teens on motor most of the time, but goes 5.70s w/ a 250 hit on at 3 tenths out.
Yet your customers car goes from 7.teens to 5.70s on a 150 hit.
I know I have a long way to go w/ my car, but seeing results like this make me wonder what I'm doing, lol. Or is this yet another result of running a nearly 2 ton car?
Could be several things. The smallblock is probably overcammed and has too much head to be an efficient N/A combo, for the given compression and other things. Converter is also probably a little tight. The small shot helps the efficiency of the motor and well as helps the converter on shift recovery.

In your case, I would think a 250 shot should pick you up more than 3 tenths. The converter may be a little loose. What does it fall back to on the shift on the motor and on the hose? If on the spray the drop really tightens, you probably need more stator. It could also be that the motor is fairly efficient as is and the nitrous is just not helping a lot because of cam, exhaust, whatever. HEMIs can be tough on spray. It could be that it just needs a lot more to really run....or the cam has too much overlap and is just putting the charge out the pipes. Hard to say. Look into converter question first.

How much mph does it pick up on spray?

Not sure on the rpm drop at the shift...will find out next time out for sure.
It gains about 9 mph in the 1/8 and about 10 mph in the 1/4 when compared to it's best ever N/A pass w/ the tighter converter. The "nitrous" converter only slowed the car down about a tenth in the 1/4.

Doesn't seem to run as hard up top as it should. Was running the little -4 feed line last year, put -6 on it last week...thinking maybe that was a restriction. Bottle is in the trunk, so there's 14 feet of feed line.

NOS doublecross plate jetted 65x2 N, 53x2 F, 6 psi fuel, 23° timing, C12 fuel. Have not even begun to tune it from this baseline.

Have not gotten more aggressive than a 3 tenth delay on the hit due to wheelstand issues. Last time out I got a better handle on the shocks and kept it on the ground.
shift at 6800-6900, cross the stripe at 7400. 4.10 gear, 295-65 radial
1.31 sixty foot w/ back tires
3.692 330'
5.710 1/8
121.6 mph
8.955 1/4
149.7 mph


CHIP
'70 hemicuda street car...8.91 at 150.5 mph w/ 4.10s, 8.97 at 152.5 mph w/ 3.54s so far
'69 road runner 440 w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed...Dad's ride
'71 Demon 340 resto project
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax...toy hauler
'16 Grand Caravan SXT...baby hauler
Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2023777
03/03/16 01:04 PM
03/03/16 01:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,416
On the bumper
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n20mstr Offline
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On the bumper
NOS doublecross plate jetted 65x2 N, 53x2 F, 6 psi fuel, 23° timing, C12 fuel. Have not even begun to tune it from this baseline.


start leaning it out, drop the fuel psi and timing . then watch it pick up some mph


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: tboomer] #2024450
03/04/16 01:53 PM
03/04/16 01:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,250
Hot Rod Ridge
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Hot Rod Ridge
Cricket sounds

Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: FastmOp] #2024461
03/04/16 02:12 PM
03/04/16 02:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 14,296
PA.
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PA.
After 40 years of racing this will be my first time using nitrous so I have nothing to add but will keep following the post. I hope it lasts.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.85 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Moparts official power adder thread [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2024643
03/04/16 08:12 PM
03/04/16 08:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,029
Victoria, Australia
Ian Offline
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Ian  Offline
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Victoria, Australia
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Monte...are some combos just THAT much more nitrous friendly? I mean my car will go 6.teens on motor most of the time, but goes 5.70s w/ a 250 hit on at 3 tenths out.
Yet your customers car goes from 7.teens to 5.70s on a 150 hit.
I know I have a long way to go w/ my car, but seeing results like this make me wonder what I'm doing, lol. Or is this yet another result of running a nearly 2 ton car?

what is your engine combo and are you running the 1/8 mostly?
maybe Monte can tell us a about the customers combo ? so we can compare the two


1.37 60 ft [email]6.0@113[/email] [email]9.57@141[/email] 408 glide 3550lbs
new video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Xvq3ZObywQE
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