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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger] #2020872
02/27/16 07:05 PM
02/27/16 07:05 PM
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Tacoma, Washington USA
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Adam71Charger Offline OP
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I'm not spending it yet, need to mock up with the pulleys I have and see if it will work. I'm pretty sure my water pump and pulley are specifically for an a/c car. And I need a power steering

Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger] #2021006
02/27/16 11:39 PM
02/27/16 11:39 PM
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Desert Tracker
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HYPER8oSoNic Offline
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A NO-BRAINER! Build it like a 67'-70' spec 440 Magnum, paying particular
attention to cylinder pressure. Unless you have a set of "good" 906 heads
laying around, stick with the stock heads save for a bowl cleanup and multi-angle valve job. You can raise compression by milling the cylinder heads, replacing the "stock" cam with the 440 Magnum spec. or a "fast acting cam" (moderate duration) that "pumps up"
cylinder pressure, boring the cylinders and also installing pre-71' 440 Magnum/6 pack spec pistons. 440's can and will exceed the 400 hp mark with stock parts (66-70 HP's and Magnums, even the 325-350 horse versions too) and a few smart tuning tricks. Yours is a 180-220 horse version and it needs a bit more - compression and/or modern cam technology to reach the 400 bar. With ignition and carb tuning added
in the mix and keeping the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) intact,
the 2 grand would get you there. Check out some of the other posts concerning low-buck 440 builds and particularly pay close attention to
some the articles in Mopar Muscle, Mopar Action and Engine Masters (past issues) on 440's written by Rick Ehrenberg and Steve Dulchich. They both are on Moparts, as well as Andy Finkheimer (Andy F). Between
all three writers and the Moparts Archives, there is a WEALTH of info!
Use the info wisely and good luck with the build!! thumbs

fury


"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger] #2021010
02/27/16 11:43 PM
02/27/16 11:43 PM
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Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Originally Posted By Adam71Charger
I'm not spending it yet, need to mock up with the pulleys I have and see if it will work. I'm pretty sure my water pump and pulley are specifically for an a/c car. And I need a power steering


With standard alternator and ps pump brackets you just won't use the outer groove on the pulleys. Also, if needed, shimming the pulleys fore and aft is not difficult.

Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger] #2021029
02/28/16 12:05 AM
02/28/16 12:05 AM
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Daytona, I may need a new PS pump as well, plus bracket, alternator bracket, alt bracket hardware, correct water pump and non a/c water pump pulley (as far as I know the wp pulley is different size on a/c cars). Ive got some shims too. Ill get it all figured out when I get there

Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger] #2021519
02/28/16 09:47 PM
02/28/16 09:47 PM
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Took covers off. No obvious problems in valve train that I can see. The heads are 346.




Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger] #2021569
02/28/16 11:25 PM
02/28/16 11:25 PM
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Heads off. #1 has a white ashy residue, not sure why its only in #1. Head gaskets looked ok, no leaks.

The cylinders have some powdery surface rust, it wipes off mostly with a rag and lacquer thinner. The tops of the bores are smooth and flat but have have a sharp lip where the top ring stops. Is that a ridge? I seem to remember ridges having more of a hill shape.

Do I need to hone and use new rings, or can I get by with just a hone? Or will it be fine the way it is?
















Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger] #2021580
02/28/16 11:37 PM
02/28/16 11:37 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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FlexHone and file fit plasma moly rings are an option. yes it is a ridge & needs to be removed (rent a ridge reamer & carefull use of it, more on that if/when you get ready to use it) for new rings to be installed on a rering (no rebore). You could take one of your old compression rings & square up the ends & use it to measure taper and out of round amt to a fair degree. iirc way back a Mopar mag mentioned that 346 heads may or may not be induction hardened (someone will clarify) as it was a transition period.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger] #2021653
02/29/16 01:54 AM
02/29/16 01:54 AM
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There were pieces of plastic in the oil pan, as well a nut. Verified it is not a rod nut, maybe I dropped it through the valley during disassembly. No visible damage to cylinders or piston that I can see.

What are these pieces of plastic?? They have a very distinct shape


Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger] #2021655
02/29/16 01:55 AM
02/29/16 01:55 AM
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Rod bearing


Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger] #2021657
02/29/16 01:56 AM
02/29/16 01:56 AM
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Adam71Charger Offline OP
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#2 main bearing


Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger] #2021663
02/29/16 02:16 AM
02/29/16 02:16 AM
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5th picture down at the 2 o'clock position it kind of looks like there's a couple of chunks missing from the piston crown?

Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger] #2021667
02/29/16 02:22 AM
02/29/16 02:22 AM
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I didn't see those when I was looking at that piston, could be a camera trick. I'll look again tomorrow.

Is it normal for bearings to have lines like this? I didn't feel any groove when inspected them, just see visible lines

Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger] #2021688
02/29/16 02:50 AM
02/29/16 02:50 AM
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The plastic stuff is your cam gear self destructing. Nylon teeth can only take so much heat and abuse. Very common.

Time for a new double roller replacement.

Kevin

Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger] #2021748
02/29/16 09:24 AM
02/29/16 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted By Adam71Charger

What are these pieces of plastic??



Cam timing gear teeth. It may have been replaced once already.

Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: WO23Coronet] #2021750
02/29/16 09:38 AM
02/29/16 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted By WO23Coronet
5th picture down at the 2 o'clock position it kind of looks like there's a couple of chunks missing from the piston crown?


Those are original from the manufacturer. They are for piston orientation. Probably face the front of the block.

Old school performance adder - if you reuse those pistons, turn them around so they face the back of the block, less friction due to the pin not being in the center of the piston, but you might get a little piston slap noise.

Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger] #2021796
02/29/16 12:12 PM
02/29/16 12:12 PM
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I would hone that and install new rings, the ridge doesn't look like its too big but hard to tell in pics.

The one piston probably looks crusty because it sat with the exhaust valve open, no big deal.

Last edited by GTX MATT; 02/29/16 12:13 PM.

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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger] #2021803
02/29/16 12:16 PM
02/29/16 12:16 PM
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Timing gear chunks. Original timing gears were nylon coated. When you buy your cam buy a new timing set.

Typical for man bearings to have those grooves. If you're just doing a hone'n're-ring, I would replace main and rod bearings. If you desire, you can bring the crank to have a machine shop to have the journals inspected/polished. Add a high-volume oil pump too.

Yes, sounds like you have a ridge. I wouldn't worry about it. I would hone the cylinders with a ball hone then I'd give it a set of new cast rings, I prefer Hastings for this job. Cast rings are more forgiving to hone grit and bore taper than moly rings.

Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger] #2021878
02/29/16 02:48 PM
02/29/16 02:48 PM
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Tacoma, Washington USA
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Thanks for the tips everybody.

Its been 12 or so years since Ive honed, What type of honing tool do I need if Im using iron rings?

Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #2021919
02/29/16 03:59 PM
02/29/16 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted By DaytonaTurbo
Timing gear chunks. Original timing gears were nylon coated. When you buy your cam buy a new timing set.

Typical for man bearings to have those grooves. If you're just doing a hone'n're-ring, I would replace main and rod bearings. If you desire, you can bring the crank to have a machine shop to have the journals inspected/polished. Add a high-volume oil pump too.

Yes, sounds like you have a ridge. I wouldn't worry about it. I would hone the cylinders with a ball hone then I'd give it a set of new cast rings, I prefer Hastings for this job. Cast rings are more forgiving to hone grit and bore taper than moly rings.




If there is any ridge at all you can and probably will do damage to the rings. Imagine a brand new ring slamming against it. And why does everyone think they need a "high volume" oil pump.


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Re: Can I achieve 400hp with a late 70's 440 on a $2000 budget [Re: Adam71Charger] #2021985
02/29/16 05:57 PM
02/29/16 05:57 PM
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I have no idea why the high volume pump idea wont die. With new bearings recommended at the same time no less. shruggy


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