cam choice, go roller?
#2014451
02/18/16 02:30 AM
02/18/16 02:30 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 111 Loveland CO
Jimbo
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OP
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Posts: 111
Loveland CO
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I am building low deck 470 for hot street strip use with 11/1 compression, and trick flow heads, 2800 stall, 4.10 gear and i am shooting for mid 600's for h.p. I am stuck on the camshaft I should use. I will race the car, as well as drive it to various car shows around the state so i would like some drivability. i have looked at a number of cam profiles, and I am stuck on which way to go. I was looking at a hughes roller grind, ser4246bl3-10. then, looking at the solid flat tappet cams, i found stl4246bs, which when looking at the profiles, are the same cam, but are they? I am looking at a lot more cost for the roller setup,and is it worth it? should i just go with the solid and be done? both are 242/246 @ .050, around .600 lift, wit 110 centerline.
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Re: cam choice, go roller?
[Re: Jimbo]
#2014474
02/18/16 03:45 AM
02/18/16 03:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska
astjp2
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Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
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I would contact Chase Knight from Crane Cams, he can help you and he is a Mopar guy. Tim
1941 Taylorcraft 1968 Charger 1994 Wrangler 1998 Wrangler 2008 Kia Rio 2017 Jetta
I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
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Re: cam choice, go roller?
[Re: Jimbo]
#2014504
02/18/16 06:07 AM
02/18/16 06:07 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Aurora, Colorado
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The cam looks a bit short on duration for 600+ HP? Lunati Voodoo solid roller 40230733LK would still be mild in that engine. Specs are 249/255@0.050" and 0.585"/0.600" lift (@1.5:1 ratio.) https://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=5954&gid=369Cost for cam and lifters, $685.20 ($666.81 on Amazon?) A good 9.5" or 10" 3,500 stall converter should work fine with your 4.10:1 gears.
Last edited by 451Mopar; 02/18/16 06:16 AM.
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Re: cam choice, go roller?
[Re: astjp2]
#2014514
02/18/16 08:30 AM
02/18/16 08:30 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,396 Pa
Hot 340
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I would contact Chase Knight from Crane Cams, he can help you and he is a Mopar guy. Tim Jerry Clay from Crane said that Chase retired a few weeks ago.
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Re: cam choice, go roller?
[Re: Hot 340]
#2014525
02/18/16 09:06 AM
02/18/16 09:06 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,704 Wichita
GY3
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I had built a few engines and used everything from hydraulic to solid with solid being my preference. On my last motor, I went solid because it was cheap, easy and what I knew. Even after doing all the right things, using the right oil, blah,blah, the damn thing went flat!
It was the most expensive motor I had ever built as the only thing left that was stock was the block. I took it apart, cleaned it out and went with a Howards hydraulic roller. Lots of work, lots of expense but worth every penny! Little things like swapping the gear on the intermediate shaft, going to a bronze tipped fuel pump rod and ordering new, custom length pushrods really pushes up the price!
The engine is very manageable on the street, makes more power than a new Viper and is a true joy to drive.
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Re: cam choice, go roller?
[Re: Jimbo]
#2014597
02/18/16 01:00 PM
02/18/16 01:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,212 New York
polyspheric
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New York
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which when looking at the profiles, are the same cam, but are they? Never.
Only reason not to use a roller: $$$.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: cam choice, go roller?
[Re: Jimbo]
#2014706
02/18/16 03:39 PM
02/18/16 03:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,706 Nebraska
70VcodeCoronetRT
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Nebraska
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I went with a mild comp hydraulic roller in my 470. (.541 lift) Great street manners, huge torque and sounds great. I will never go with anything but roller from here on. Costs more to begin with. But being able to just fire up and drive with no break in is priceless. By the way. The only hydraulic roller lifters I had any luck with were the Hughes ones. I had all kinds of issues with the high $$$ Scorpion lifters. Just my experience. Good luck.
Last edited by 4406forPOWER; 02/18/16 03:41 PM.
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Re: cam choice, go roller?
[Re: Jimbo]
#2014737
02/18/16 04:35 PM
02/18/16 04:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,303 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,303
Bend,OR USA
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Knowing most of Colorado is above 4500 ft and your cubic inch I would look at more duration and as much lift as I could get My last pump gas 3.91 stroke 440 motor with non ported Eddy RPM heads struggle to make 500 HP with a Comp Cams XE275HL, .525 lift and 231 @.050 int. and 237@.050 on the exhaust at 2500 Ft All the other pump gas motors I've made and dyno tested like a lot more duration and lift I have a 464 C.I. 440 motor that had the same heads on it as the last motor but it had the Comp Cams XE295HL with 1.6 ratio rockers and a six pak,it ran low elevens and high tens in my old pump gas Duster that weighed 3450 lbs with me in it To make over 600 HP I would look at a solid roller with around 255 to 265 degrees at .050 on both lobes and .430 or more lobe lift and use a set of 1.6 or higher rocker ratio The first pump gas low deck stroker motor I made back in 2002 was a 400 block bored to 4.375 with a 4.25 stroke cranshaft with BB Chevy rod sizes, it had a set of mildly ported 906 heads with 2.14 intake valves and 1.81 exhaust valves, 9.25 to 1 comp ratio. Eddy low deck sixpak intake and tuned up stock 440 carbs, that cam was a custom ground Comp Cams that had 260 @ .050 intake with .420 lobe lift, 266 @.050 on the exhaust with .409 lobe lift, I used a set of 1.6 CAT brand aluminum roller rockers that I had to replace with a set of Harland Sharp later when the CAT shafts failed That motor made 612 HP at 5500 RPM and 644 ft. lbs. at 4500 RPM on CA 91 octane pump swill It really exceeded my expectations Good luck on your build
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: cam choice, go roller?
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2014753
02/18/16 05:02 PM
02/18/16 05:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma
Von
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NE Oklahoma
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Hughes Cam with EDM lifters = $396.20 so the roller adds $289 to the cost of the engine.
Where did u get your numbers?? Hyd roller cam listed is 399, lifters are 553. Looks to me like at least 550 more for a roller. Plus pushrods for the roller may be a few $$ more. To the OP, nobody has mentioned it...but imo you need more flash speed from a vert. More like 3500. How heavy is the car? Finally...call Dwayne Porter and be done with it...
Last edited by Von; 02/18/16 05:08 PM.
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72.
Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
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Re: cam choice, go roller?
[Re: Jimbo]
#2015513
02/19/16 04:35 PM
02/19/16 04:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,303 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
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Posts: 43,303
Bend,OR USA
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HP takes air and fuel, adding more air and more fuel equals more HP I switched heads on the same short block three different times,two sets had the same size combustion chambers making the compression ratio the same. The bigger flowing heads made more power every time You can make the motor flow more air through the cam, heads and intake by optimizing all of them, you can also make the motor make more HP by making it bigger by stroking and boring it with the same top end and cam. I did a lot of carb. testing on one of my old drag cars with a stock stroke 440 motor in it, going from a 600 CFM carb.,to 750CFM,850CFM,950CFM and ending up with a 1050 CFM Dominator carb. made the car eight tenths quicker ET and similar MPH gain IHTHs
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 02/19/16 04:37 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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