Help Needed - Budget 318 Sprint Car Build
#2008872
02/09/16 10:49 PM
02/09/16 10:49 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
racerdude5
OP
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
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I'm looking for all the help I can get, I've raced on the dirt for about 9 years. Due to going to college we sold the race car, however I ended up staying local and going to my community college. This will be my second year out the car and being away from my passion is painful. I'm attempting to start piecing together a 318 based sprint car engine which will eventually power a USAC West Coast 360/VRA 360 sprint car. You may be familiar, but these small block V8s are very expensive to build due to the high number of extremely specialized parts required. For now I'm just going to try to get the ball rolling on an engine, while the cost may be too high to jump right into sprint cars; at earlier stages in the process I may be able to get it into a VRA Hobby Stock then maybe an IMCA modified. I need all the help I can get; I'm looking for mentors, supporters, sponsors, fans, and anyone else who is willing to help. I need all hands on deck. Here in minor league racing in local So-Cal, Mopars on the dirt tracks are almost non-existent. I'd like to change that. It might be easier and cheaper to build a small block chevy, but unless someone gives it to me I'm not gonna spend any money on something that isn't a Mopar. It's been my dream to have a Mopar sprint car for about 7 years now, and I'm on the search to make it happen. I have a 74 Duster, everything that has been done to it I have done myself and I strive to be as self sufficient as possible, daring to do things that are tedious and difficult; but I'd rather spend the money I have on the tools to do something than to spend the money on labor. As a result of this mentality I continue to learn more and more about cars, I love it. I'm willing to do all the work myself I just need someone to help me by either teaching me, or supplying me with the resources to do it myself (for example, the machining to the crank and rods).
Here's what I have:
-I've got a forged 273 crank that needs to be turned, I'd like to have all the old school hands on work done to it; radiused journals, nitrided, lightened, etc. It needs to be inspected and worked someone who knows what they're doing.
-I've got a set of bushed 318 rods that need to be worked over; I'd like to get them shot peened, inspected, lightened, machined also by someone who knows what they're doing.
The Goal:
Okay, so this thing is going to be a beast. Unlike almost any high rpm race engine built today, I'm going to be using almost an entire OEM short block that's been reinforced and done up old school to maximize strength. I wanna pull out all those old tricks for when there were no specialty parts available. I have the rods, and the crank. I'm gonna use an 318 block. I'm not sure what heads would be best, but they will need to flow 300+ cfm. This engine is going to make max power between 7000-9000 rpm in sprint car trim. Maybe less if it's to go in a hobby stock or a modified first. It will need to be built for maximum longevity due to the very tight budget I have. Roller lifters, rockers, and maybe even a roller bearings for the cam. We're talking 13:1 compression at the least, so it's gonna need to be o-ringed. All the hardware will be ARP. I'd like to maintain shaft mount rockers of the LA variant because I strongly believe that they're just better than the oil through the pushrod stud mount type. It will be a dry sump also. The class limit for displacement is 360 cubic inches, which will be hard to get out of a standard 318 possibly, at a later time a stroker crank could be installed possibly but for the time being about 326-332 c.i. should suffice.
Idea for what's going to go into it:
-Early 70s 318 block (maybe a truck block for the thicker casting) or a late 80s block for roller lifters -Bore Sleeves -ARP Rod bolts -ARP Main studs w/windage tray -King Bearings -Main Stud Girdle -Forged Pistons -Bushed Piston Pins -O-rings for heads/block -Double Roller timing chain or gear drive preferably -SFI Harmonic Balancer? -ARP Misc. Hardware -3 or 4 Stage Dry Sump oil pump -Cam mount or belt drive for Oil Pump -Kevko Oil Pan -Oil Tank -Magneto or electronic ignition with a small alternator (No battery) -Roller lifters -Roller Rockers -Titanium/Chromoly Retainers -Hardened locks -Dual Valve Springs -Oval Track Cam -Heavy duty rocker shafts -Heavy duty rocker hold downs -High pressure Fuel pump -Carburetor for now (hilborn injection eventually) -Brodix/Edelbrock/Procomp Aluminum CNC-Ported heads (eventually)
and probably more that I can't think of off the top of my head. Thanks for reading
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Re: Help Needed - Budget 318 Sprint Car Build
[Re: racerdude5]
#2008909
02/09/16 11:30 PM
02/09/16 11:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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Some thoughts:
To get the quickest acceleration out of the corners you need the lightest reciprocating assembly that is legal for your class, and that for sure isn't a stock 318 rod, which weighs IIRC 720 grams. A good weight to shoot for would be 600 grams. You also need the lightest pistons and pins, which aren't close to stockers or the old SpeedPro/TRW forgings. If class allows it, there are chevy rod/piston combinations that would work better and cost less.
Your mention of doing it the old fashioned way sounds like wishful thinking. There aren't any "old-timer's speed secrets" that have been forgotten due to the passage of time. The reason things are done the modern way is, the new ways are better. For example, back in the day everyone cross-drilled their cranks. Now no one does it for a couple of different reasons, and the new way is better. A lot of interesting things used to be done to pistons, but they were dropped because there was an easier and better wa.
There's a lot of material to remove from a 273 crank, although it is exactly the same as the late Poly/early LA 318. It's also the same forging as a 340 crank.
300cfm heads? Your proposed engine would have a very narrow power band.
I also don't believe that a stock 318 block will handle that amount of power for any length of time, but others may disagree. For 7000 - 9000 rpm hydraulic rollers are out, and what does the sanctioning body allow?
For ignition the sooner you can get away from a distributor and use a crank trigger the better.
Others may disagree about everything I've said here. I'm up to learning from others' experience.
This reply was an attempt to tether you so you don't go floating up into the great wide open. I've built a lot of engines in my head and many of them would have not worked and/or exploded if actually built and run to max power.
R.
Last edited by dogdays; 02/09/16 11:37 PM.
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Re: Help Needed - Budget 318 Sprint Car Build
[Re: racerdude5]
#2008980
02/10/16 12:53 AM
02/10/16 12:53 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Whats your roll cage and chassis set up... whats your minimum weight... your fighting a hard road if you plan on OEM junk... off set grind the crank to chevy rods so you can get the weight down.. turn the counter weights down and balance it in closer to the center line.. everything you want or need to do COST.. some thing have to be sent out.. what are you willing/capable of doing.. do you have a welder that you can use( can you weld)
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Re: Help Needed - Budget 318 Sprint Car Build
[Re: racerdude5]
#2008983
02/10/16 12:55 AM
02/10/16 12:55 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,745 On the parachute mount
n20mstr
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,745
On the parachute mount
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Get a magnum 318 , everything is lighter , ( stock pistons and rods) and the stock block takes roller lifters. All around better engine in stock low buck form.
....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....
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Re: Help Needed - Budget 318 Sprint Car Build
[Re: racerdude5]
#2009702
02/11/16 03:36 AM
02/11/16 03:36 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 456 corpus christi tex
Cheatham
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 456
corpus christi tex
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i had a friend at the same time as me back in the 90s that ran a 360, his motor was given to him by Jim Baldwin, so who is jim baldwin ? well his son rick baldwin ( google name ) tried his hand in a cup car a couple of times, i think it was darlington or talledega that rick was qualifying and spun and car turned driver side into wall and his head hit the wall and he was in a vegitave/ coma state for many years, he was a local guy who ran mopars here at the asphalt 1/4 mile oval, his dad jim built the engines, any way jim built a 360 for my friend to use in his late model car, my friend name was jimmy mikluncak and so he took either a chevy or ford 6 valve alcohal mechanical fuel pump and welded a mopar arm and made it work lol. i dont know what was done to his motor but it was simple and it ran good, nothing special about it, i do know the 360 blocks have a huge oiling hole at thr rear main and have been told to use the narrow bearing in its place and install a restrictor and drill it the size of the other mains, and tube the block. dirt tracks dont put engines in a bind like asphalt tracks so its more forgiving, so you should be ok with a stock 360 crank. i think if you try spinning these small block mopars 8000+ rpms then oiling and valve train reliabilty are going to be an issue. my dad wanted me to go with carrllo rods and dry sump to start off with but i had no money to go that route, build with what you have then keep the rpms that will let it live and keep it oiled, have a consistent motor and work on the chassi, gear it for the dry or tacky and have the right tires for the heats and features. as you know its a stradegy game not a wild drive it sideways foot to the floor like ppl think it is. if my eyes werent so bad id still be doing it.
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Re: Help Needed - Budget 318 Sprint Car Build
[Re: racerdude5]
#2009931
02/11/16 04:44 PM
02/11/16 04:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,478 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 12,478
Kalispell Mt.
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5.9 magnum block is the strongest production block, I wouldn't use anything less since they can be had for next to nothing. Lots of guys running the stock cast crank real hard, if you skimp out and use a stock crank then spend some money on light pistons, rods, pins...
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Help Needed - Budget 318 Sprint Car Build
[Re: dogdays]
#2011862
02/14/16 05:42 PM
02/14/16 05:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
racerdude5
OP
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
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Dave has been studying really hard.
R. He has?
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Re: Help Needed - Budget 318 Sprint Car Build
[Re: racerdude5]
#2011882
02/14/16 06:14 PM
02/14/16 06:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219
New York
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very tight budget
Your tight budget is already over $10,000.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Help Needed - Budget 318 Sprint Car Build
[Re: polyspheric]
#2012730
02/15/16 09:54 PM
02/15/16 09:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
racerdude5
OP
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 19
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very tight budget
Your tight budget is already over $10,000. Haha probably, USED PARTS WANTED!
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