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NOS Buyer Beware! #200020
01/21/09 02:36 PM
01/21/09 02:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 541
7
70RT Offline OP
mopar
70RT  Offline OP
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A customer recently sent me what was represented as an NOS '67 CC alternator. It was purchased from a well-known NOS supplier for some pretty good money. When it arrived, and after spending just a few minutes looking it over, I had to make one of those phone calls the customer never wants to get. It was not only not an NOS unit, but had been rebuilt at least once, possibly twice, before being sold to the sender. To make matters worse, it had a crack in the rear housing that's not repairable. I thought I'd use this unfortunate experience to share a little information conc. original CC alternators (excluding the HD Leece-Neville units):
1. All pre 72 alternators were the round back style. 60 - 69 were single field (one field connector) with 70 and 71 roundbacks having two field connections.
2. All pre 72 CC alternators had a rear shell "raised rib" rotor bearing made by Torrington or Bremen.
3. All had code dates and part numbers stamped on the rectifiers in red(+) and black(-) ink. Most common were the Motorola manufactured diodes - large M stamped in the diode center - for 68 thru 71 model years. I have seen one other manufacturer's logo on diodes.
4. All pre 72 had black cloth wire insulation on the stator to rectifier leads.
5. All originals I have seen had a CC 7 digit part number stamped into the pulley hub face along with either an "S" or "P".
6. The only numbers actually stamped into the case were found on the rear shell and consisted of a three digit QA number ex. 2-4-1, CC part number ex. 3438178, and a three or four digit assembly date ex. 34 69. No other stamped numbers should be on the case or shell. There are date code "clocks" molded into the front and rear shells.
I am just trying to save somebody who might be looking into a future purchase from major disappointment. Hope this helps and be careful out there!

Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: 70RT] #200021
01/21/09 02:40 PM
01/21/09 02:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 20,921
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
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Kirkland, Washington
70RT--thanks for the info. Can you tell me what applications used the sguare back with the wide space (approx 1/2 inch of stator showing)vs the squareback whose two case halves almost touch?

Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: 70RT] #200022
01/21/09 02:49 PM
01/21/09 02:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,705
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms  Offline
Mr Wizzard

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Posts: 42,705
Spokane Washington
It would be even more helpful if the suppliers name were mentioned


Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #200023
01/21/09 02:58 PM
01/21/09 02:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,142
People's Republic of Kali
70runner Offline
super stock
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People's Republic of Kali


I see these purported NOS alternators pop up often on ebag. It stretches the (well at least my) imagination to believe that this number of NOS alternators have survived 40yrs.

Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #200024
01/21/09 03:22 PM
01/21/09 03:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 541
7
70RT Offline OP
mopar
70RT  Offline OP
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Honestly, do not have enough experience with 72 and later squarebacks to provide any usefull info on the rear shell differences.
Scott,the buyer and seller are trying to get the situation resolved. I'll leave it to him to post here if he feels it's warranted. I will say it's one of the "big boys."
E-bag CC alternator descriptions are frightening indeed!

Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: 70RT] #200025
01/21/09 03:25 PM
01/21/09 03:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,072
Farmland, IN
Ludington1 Offline
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Farmland, IN
I think NOS is starting to mean "New Or Similar" to many sellers.

Darren

Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: 70RT] #200026
01/21/09 03:32 PM
01/21/09 03:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,705
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
Mr Wizzard
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Posts: 42,705
Spokane Washington
Saw this bad boy on a car at Russo Steele over the weekend, don't see many like this one installed on cars there days, it's thre real deal, probably NOS when installed on the car (1970 440+6 Challenger).

Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #200027
01/21/09 03:33 PM
01/21/09 03:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,705
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
Mr Wizzard
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Posts: 42,705
Spokane Washington
2

Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #200028
01/21/09 03:33 PM
01/21/09 03:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,705
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms  Offline
Mr Wizzard

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Posts: 42,705
Spokane Washington
3

Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #200029
01/21/09 08:17 PM
01/21/09 08:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,258
home of the Buckeyes
Butterscotch71 Offline
Lost Title
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home of the Buckeyes
Like this one?

4964298-1176.jpg (443 downloads)
Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: Butterscotch71] #200030
01/21/09 08:18 PM
01/21/09 08:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,258
home of the Buckeyes
Butterscotch71 Offline
Lost Title
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home of the Buckeyes
.

4964304-1177.jpg (296 downloads)
Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: Butterscotch71] #200031
01/21/09 08:20 PM
01/21/09 08:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,258
home of the Buckeyes
Butterscotch71 Offline
Lost Title
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..

4964310-1180.jpg (285 downloads)
Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: Butterscotch71] #200032
01/21/09 08:22 PM
01/21/09 08:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,258
home of the Buckeyes
Butterscotch71 Offline
Lost Title
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Mine doesn't have a part number on the pulley anywhere I can see.
Is that cosmoline on the internals?

4964317-1178.jpg (281 downloads)
Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: Butterscotch71] #200033
01/21/09 08:57 PM
01/21/09 08:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,850
Central Coast, Calif.
S
Snoopy Offline
master
Snoopy  Offline
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S

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,850
Central Coast, Calif.
NOS = Nasty Old S - well you get the idea.

Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: 70RT] #200034
01/22/09 12:15 AM
01/22/09 12:15 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,886
US of A
A38s! Offline
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US of A
Good info. I have a late 67 unit, reads the letters "KCP" within an oval, stamped on the front cover. Any significance?


WANTED: Your 71-78 Late B-body sedan parts! Police or Civilian.
Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: A38s!] #200035
01/22/09 08:46 AM
01/22/09 08:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 541
7
70RT Offline OP
mopar
70RT  Offline OP
mopar
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 541
I have seen two different manufacturer's initials on the alternator cases, KCP and NW. Would like to hear from anyone on the board if you know what
companies either of these stood for. The internal rotor coating and exterior finish seen on the stator are a tinted electrical varnish. I couldn't find any domestic source and had to create my own to get the correct tint on our restorations. Other things to note which are unique to the NoS examples above:
1. Tan colored brush holder (horizontal brush only). Tan colored insulator between capacitor hardware and rear shell.
2. Brushes are crudely phosphated/and or dichromate finished at the electrical connection point.
3. Red/Orange amperage ID paint is apparently applied before the case assembly takes place. I have never seen any evidence of paint on the stator but have found traces on the backside of the capacitor insulator and mica shield. Also if you look closely some of the numbers stamped into the rear shell you'll see they are done after the orange paint was applied. I have found a couple of NOS rotors with yellow (30 amp) or orange (37 amp) paint on the pully shaft face. It appears to be a trace on the above in Butterscotch71s last NOS pic. Look closely inside the pulley hub at roughly the 11 to 1 O'clock area? Maybe it made it easier to get the correct amperage rotor with the correct part numbered alternator.
4. Most CC NOS alternators (69-71)show some type of very light lime green coating on the alternator shells and some of the hardware. Still working with a commercial chemical plating supplier on getting that tint reproduced.

Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: A38s!] #200036
01/22/09 11:07 AM
01/22/09 11:07 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,044
Atlanta Indiana
D
Dave Watt Offline
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Atlanta Indiana
Quote:

Good info. I have a late 67 unit, reads the letters "KCP" within an oval, stamped on the front cover. Any significance?



KCP is the Kokomo(Indiana)Casting Plant. It is the same Chrysler plant that still is casting most of the automatic transmission cases and did all of the 904's, 727's, and front wheel drives.

Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: Dave Watt] #200037
01/22/09 12:30 PM
01/22/09 12:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,636
Calgary, Alberta Canada
m46rat Offline
top fuel
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Calgary, Alberta Canada
The only guy who sells those type of alternators for big $$$'s is Frank Mitchell. On eBay they are buy it now for 495.00, they all are dated 41 69.

Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: m46rat] #200038
01/22/09 12:35 PM
01/22/09 12:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,555
None
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None
Quote:

The only guy who sells those type of alternators for big $$$'s is Frank Mitchell. On eBay they are buy it now for 495.00, they all are dated 41 69.


On Frank

Re: NOS Buyer Beware! [Re: 71rm23] #200039
01/22/09 01:02 PM
01/22/09 01:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,852
Dallas, TX
70challrtse Offline
super gas
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Posts: 2,852
Dallas, TX
I bought mine from Frank Badalson.

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