solid cam for a 383 sleeper
#1986961
01/09/16 04:21 PM
01/09/16 04:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 106 Poland
willard
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Hi everyone. I have a 1970 challenger rt se with a 383 bored 0.040 over, lunati 220/226 60302 cam, stealth heads shaved 0.040" kb400 pistons giving roughly 9.4:1, 770 and 750 holley vac and mech carbs available, stock HP manifolds with super turbos and stock exhaust piping, intake is dp4b. P/B and P/S, also have running a/c but having it work at idle is not a must. Rest is 727 trans with stock histall vert (flashing 2600) , rear is 3.55SG with f70-14 (3000rpm at 62 mph). Car is numbers matching. Car goes nice 5.6s 0-62mph, 13.9 best ET, 100mph trap speed. Problems with tracion in 1st, I have to take off at no more than 1200 rpm, shifting at 5100 rpm. Question - if i wish to switch to a solid cam, lets say MP 528 BUT leaving everything as is (I have crane gold 1.6 rockers laying around) - will I gain anything or just choke the poor 383 I also considered comp xs268s but would like something less chebby... hughes solids are to long duration... I read 528 goes well with manifolds but with more cubes than I have. Anyone runs such combo with a 528 solid? I don't want to change the converter. thanks
Last edited by willard; 01/09/16 05:20 PM.
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Re: solid cam for a 383 sleeper
[Re: willard]
#1987060
01/09/16 07:17 PM
01/09/16 07:17 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
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If you have been bitten by the "go fast" bug, my advice is to leave it as it is for now and start looking at stroker kits. Whether you simply go to a 3.75 stroke in your 383, or opt to find a 400 block and push out to 470 cubes or more.... You'll be happier in the long run than just trying to squeeze a little more out of the numbers matching 383, because that's all you're going to get with that plan; a little.
A 470 could be built to idle easy and be just as drivable as you are now, but still stomp every cammed up 383 you will run across.
And by the way.... In order to qualify as a "sleeper", it has to actually be fast. An E-body flashing RT badges and running 13's is not really a sleeper in my book.
Last edited by StealthWedge67; 01/09/16 07:20 PM.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: solid cam for a 383 sleeper
[Re: willard]
#1987094
01/09/16 07:51 PM
01/09/16 07:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 106 Poland
willard
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Thanks for advice. By sleeper I meant stock looking engine but with some more oomph to show ricer boys their place. Engine has just a shy over 3 years and I'm reluctant to put in the stroker kit + all that machining once again. I live in Poland and during my rest had lots of problems with mechanics not knowing what mopars are about. A friend of mine has a 68 charger with the same 383 but running 2330 hughes cam and headers with 3.23 gear and like 27" tires and it feels his motor has 20% power (especially above 60mph). However I dont want to ruin stock look with these damn headers... which surely would help.
@AndyF - can you post thet racer brown cam specs?
By the way why 3.75 (438) and not 4.25 (496) ? More fun same cost.
Last edited by willard; 01/09/16 07:52 PM.
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Re: solid cam for a 383 sleeper
[Re: willard]
#1987310
01/10/16 01:40 AM
01/10/16 01:40 AM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 234 Brisvegas, Australia
Alchemi
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The 3.75 you can use a ground stock 440 crank - in the usa much cheaper than a new one
4.25 needs the block cleaned up internally to stop bits a pieces hitting things - in a "B" block it -generally- means external oiling too
there are concepts of bigger valves needed for the flow capacity and valve shrouding on the smaller bore too, many dont sweat that stuff too much though
Off the line @1200... look into your traction control before adding more power, cause it aint going to do you any good if it cant hook up
Last edited by Alchemi; 01/10/16 01:48 AM.
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Re: solid cam for a 383 sleeper
[Re: willard]
#1987332
01/10/16 02:28 AM
01/10/16 02:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
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When I ran a very mild 383 in my old Dart I did have headers on it. But the 383 was a stock bottom end and I mean stock as it was not even bored as it was stock bore. I had 452 heads I milled to get a true 9.5 comp and I did some mild pocket porting on the heads. All the internals were stock other then the MP .484 cam and I had it on a 104 ICL. I used stock rockers and pushrods and had a Comp single spring on the valves. Everything else was bolt on's like the RPM intake and 750 Holley DP. It had 3.91's and weighed 3560 with him in it. It ran 12.30's @ 110 with a 12.31 best. I was impressed with how nice that mild 383 ran. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 01/10/16 02:29 AM.
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Re: solid cam for a 383 sleeper
[Re: willard]
#1988272
01/11/16 06:35 AM
01/11/16 06:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 106 Poland
willard
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I know I can get better performance with sticky tires but I want to stick to the stock look. This is not a race car, just a resto which I want to kill some more ricers with. I don't expect FAST class performance with my combo. Ever. @383man - your is hydraulic 284, 528 is solid 284 so they are not comparable, probably you also had quite loose converter. Returning to the core - can you recomend a solid cam acting like my voodoo (60302) or a tad bigger? I have adjustable 1.6 rockers for it. thanks
Last edited by willard; 01/11/16 06:43 AM.
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Re: solid cam for a 383 sleeper
[Re: willard]
#1988728
01/11/16 07:52 PM
01/11/16 07:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,169 CT
GTX MATT
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Do you have hood clearance for a Performer RPM? 5100 isn't alot of RPM for a 383 with Stealth heads. Maybe with a 440, but I think the 383 should wind up a little tighter.
The times are respectable but I think you could/should be able to get closer to 105 mph out of that combo, and I'd think it should wind up to 5500 or 6000 with ease. The DP4B is a decent piece but an RPM may help. Have you exhausted tuning efforts?
Last edited by GTX MATT; 01/11/16 07:56 PM.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: solid cam for a 383 sleeper
[Re: willard]
#1988782
01/11/16 08:34 PM
01/11/16 08:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,307 BC, Canada
Black_Bee
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pro stock
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I agree with others here... you are on the verge of over-camming your 383. I'm sure that you know this, but a solid cam is generally compared to a hydraulic cam this is 10-ish degrees smaller due to duration taken up by the lash. I have a Scott Brown 232/242 solid flat tappet in my 383, but I have 3.91s, 3500 converter, headers, and more compression than you... and its still kinda lopey.
Paul '69 Super Bee 383 EFI Turbo
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Re: solid cam for a 383 sleeper
[Re: willard]
#1988818
01/11/16 09:25 PM
01/11/16 09:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,227 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
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Leave the motor alone and use a looser converter. Another 500 rpm of stall will wake things up.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: solid cam for a 383 sleeper
[Re: willard]
#1988941
01/11/16 11:53 PM
01/11/16 11:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
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I know I can get better performance with sticky tires but I want to stick to the stock look. This is not a race car, just a resto which I want to kill some more ricers with. I don't expect FAST class performance with my combo. Ever. @383man - your is hydraulic 284, 528 is solid 284 so they are not comparable, probably you also had quite loose converter. Returning to the core - can you recomend a solid cam acting like my voodoo (60302) or a tad bigger? I have adjustable 1.6 rockers for it. thanks Sorry as I see you said solid cam. My converter in the Dart was a Turbo Action tight 3000 stall 10". Ron
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Re: solid cam for a 383 sleeper
[Re: willard]
#1989109
01/12/16 09:53 AM
01/12/16 09:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 106 Poland
willard
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Wow, many answers Performer RPM was hitting the hood with stock dual snorkel air filter so I picked DP4B which fits. Ignition is MP dizzy recurved to 18 initial 39 total with mopar orange/blue box (blue has nicer idle but doesnt pull above 5k). It's true I could shift her at higher rpm like 5500-5700. Higher stall won't help mi at takeoff with f70-14s... KISS.. You effectively talked me out that solid cam swap I'll stick with that voodoo and maybe change the old stock exhaust pipes with a new mandrel bent 2.5" system first. Thanks everyone for your contribution, great Mopar family. Greetings from Poland:
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Re: solid cam for a 383 sleeper
[Re: willard]
#1990166
01/13/16 08:47 PM
01/13/16 08:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,126 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
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A Banana Republic near you.
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Wow, many answers Performer RPM was hitting the hood with stock dual snorkel air filter so I picked DP4B which fits. Ignition is MP dizzy recurved to 18 initial 39 total with mopar orange/blue box (blue has nicer idle but doesnt pull above 5k). Get another Air cleaner and modify it into a drop base and think about another ignition box, the orange box might pull better above 5000 rpm but it starts to retard timing at 4000 rpm.
running up my post count some more .
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Re: solid cam for a 383 sleeper
[Re: willard]
#1991237
01/15/16 01:44 PM
01/15/16 01:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,020 Salem
Grizzly
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Great photos, Willard, thanks for posting them. By the background Poland looks amazing.
Mo' Farts
Moderated by "tbagger".
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Re: solid cam for a 383 sleeper
[Re: lewtot184]
#1991763
01/16/16 03:06 AM
01/16/16 03:06 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275 Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
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top fuel
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i think more power would be gained by sending those stealth heads out and bringing the flow up to specs than taking a chance on over camming that 383. 383's are easy to over cam. i do have experience with that 2330 cam and like it but you probably wouldn't gain that much for the time and money spent. I agree! That may get you on track for more performance. Pay more attention to your cam/working compression relationship from those heads (383's like smaller chamber volumes and quench. Lousy piston selection though, unless you go stroker). 440's make power somewhat easier having the large chamber with or without quench (440 piston selection is BETTER). Once you have that bit of info, your newfound ignition timing and carb tune will help net you the power you are looking for. FWIW stickier tires and a bit more gear can help make the combo work better. Want to keep the stock hood look? Maybe an M1 or SD manifold may work. Food for thought?
Last edited by HYPER8oSoNic; 01/16/16 03:21 AM.
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids" "Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: solid cam for a 383 sleeper
[Re: willard]
#1991824
01/16/16 10:00 AM
01/16/16 10:00 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,324 Prospect, PA
BSB67
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I've read this post several times and am a little conflicted on what advice to give.
One side: It is a stockish, pump gas 383 probably in a 3900 lb car pushing 100 mph in who knows what atmospheric conditions. Conclusion: not bad.
The other side : A 383 as you described only pulling to 5100 rpm. Conclusion: something is not right. If your buddy's car is noticeably faster and everything else is about the same, that kinda supports this conclusion. What rpm is he pulling? Maybe do a detailed comparison between the two and see if his verses your performance makes sense.
If it is really falling off at 5100, that is not right and you should look in that direction. Ignition box replacement is probably a decent first step. Next is fuel delivery. Best test in my opinion is an inline pressure gauge near the carb that you can read at WOT through the rpm range while driving. I think you should have at least 3.5 psi, or so.
Twice I've had mufflers fail internally that just suck power away big time, but you never know it. The only reason I found it was because I was going to the track regularly, and I lost 3 mph between visits. FWIW, both times they were Super Turbos.
If that is not it, maybe your lifters/valve train are not keeping up with the high rate Voodoo cam.
And to your original question, I think that a solid lifter cam is always a good choice if you don't mind the clatter. Kinda eats away at that stock thing though.
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