RMVB Experts come on in
#1992226
01/16/16 10:07 PM
01/16/16 10:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305 Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
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Lakewood, Colorado
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Need some thoughts on how to proceed
Making some major changes on the Demon, new motor built and dyno'd. I rebuilt a good core 904 with all the hot rod parts to go behind it, and got a used Griner RMVB non-LBA. New 8" PTC converter and Cheetah shifter. After having to pull the engine once to fix an oiling problem, it's back in and running. New to a converter with this much stall. Only got a couple quick blasts around the block and now have no reverse, and it wants to creep forward in the neutral position. Never seen anything like that, so swap valve bodies or am I pulling the trans?
Matt 69 Dart Swinger 340 83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car and even more
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Re: RMVB Experts come on in
[Re: herkamer]
#1992317
01/16/16 11:58 PM
01/16/16 11:58 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 84 ohio
2264PLY
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I'm thinking something with rear band or reverse servo if you have 3rd gear. The front clutch and rear band apply to give rev.The front clutch is also applied in 3rd. The creeping in neutral maybe caused by a lack of clearance in the rear clutch.If you have 3rd I'd wanna pull the pan and check the reverse band&servo. I don't know If I'd condemn the valve body until I looked. If you do decide to change the VB check the rear band application by air checking it.
Last edited by 2264PLY; 01/17/16 01:55 AM.
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Re: RMVB Experts come on in
[Re: herkamer]
#1992429
01/17/16 08:31 AM
01/17/16 08:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,729 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Posts: 25,729
Rio Linda, CA
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No Reverse and creeps forward in Neutral is a rear clutch that's not releasing.
Not uncommon with high line pressure valve bodies, typically the Belleville in the clutch fails and allows the piston to pop out of its bore and jam the clutch pack.
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Re: RMVB Experts come on in
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#1992476
01/17/16 12:11 PM
01/17/16 12:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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No Reverse and creeps forward in Neutral is a rear clutch that's not releasing.
Not uncommon with high line pressure valve bodies, typically the Belleville in the clutch fails and allows the piston to pop out of its bore and jam the clutch pack.
Depends on if it free revs in reverse or if it feels like it is in gear but locked up. This could be hard to tell though with a very loose converter.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon! 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: RMVB Experts come on in
[Re: herkamer]
#1992784
01/17/16 05:43 PM
01/17/16 05:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305 Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
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Lakewood, Colorado
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No brake. Clearances are on the tight end, but within the specs. Shifter should not be out of adjustment as I'm using the factory NSS and it starts in gear and the neutral position. It seems to free rev in reverse, but hard to tell since the converter doesn't even start to let the car move until about 1700rpm.
Well, that doesn't sound good. Everything was air tested when it was put together, and sounded like it engaged and released correctly. I'm guessing I can drop the VB and check again with air? Any upgrade solutions to the Belleville?
Matt 69 Dart Swinger 340 83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car and even more
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Re: RMVB Experts come on in
[Re: herkamer]
#1993189
01/18/16 10:43 AM
01/18/16 10:43 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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If the rear clutch was locked up it would drive in neutral and would lock up in reverse. I also believe you have a rear band apply problem if high gear is working ok.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon! 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: RMVB Experts come on in
[Re: herkamer]
#1993240
01/18/16 12:33 PM
01/18/16 12:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305 Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
OP
pro stock
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OP
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Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
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Reverse was working correctly prior to the run around the block. All the forward gears seemed to work as well, but really haven't got to shake down any problems. I'll pull the VB and air test everything as well as check band apply and adjustment.
Matt 69 Dart Swinger 340 83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car and even more
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Re: RMVB Experts come on in
[Re: herkamer]
#1993552
01/18/16 08:49 PM
01/18/16 08:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305 Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
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OP
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Pan off now.
Fluid is burned, fair amount of clutch/band material in the pan. Air test shows the bands were working correctly, but sounds like the forward clutch is leaking by. Guess it's coming out after less than a mile of drive time.
Figuring everything was air tested and working before, does this point to the valve body being no good? Apparently Griner is pretty well out of working on Mopar valve bodies, what's the best option to determine if this was the failure point?
Matt 69 Dart Swinger 340 83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car and even more
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Re: RMVB Experts come on in
[Re: herkamer]
#1993587
01/18/16 09:28 PM
01/18/16 09:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,159 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
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Park Forest, IL
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Call Keith Long. 219/718-3542
He knows Griner valve bodies well.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: RMVB Experts come on in
[Re: herkamer]
#1994278
01/19/16 06:52 PM
01/19/16 06:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,729 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,729
Rio Linda, CA
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If you heard air escaping from the rear clutch with the VB removed, why suspect the VB? Check the fit of the rear clutch sealing rings.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: RMVB Experts come on in
[Re: herkamer]
#1994296
01/19/16 07:40 PM
01/19/16 07:40 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305 Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
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pro stock
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OP
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It's the only used part in the trans. Everything else was new. I checked correct operation prior to installing in the car, stacked on the pump and in the case. I'm not a pro rebuilder by any means but I've also done more than one.
Matt 69 Dart Swinger 340 83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car and even more
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Re: RMVB Experts come on in
[Re: herkamer]
#1994691
01/20/16 03:24 AM
01/20/16 03:24 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305 Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
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OP
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Rear position, the forward clutch pack. Not the direct clutch pack located to the front position.
I put all new seals, and sealing rings in when it was apart. Any part that was replaced was with an identical one. Everything looks to be correct. And it was air tested several times. I suppose some of the parts could not be correct for the core, but seems pretty unlikely. I should have it all apart tomorrow.
Matt 69 Dart Swinger 340 83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car and even more
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Re: RMVB Experts come on in
[Re: herkamer]
#1994757
01/20/16 10:35 AM
01/20/16 10:35 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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It may have rolled a lip seal on the rear clutch piston, it's easy to do. Also if you were air checking it at full shop air pressure that can push a lip seal out as well. I seriously doubt this is a valve body issue but you can always check the pressure that is applied to it when it's back together with a pressure gauge.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon! 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: RMVB Experts come on in
[Re: herkamer]
#1994825
01/20/16 12:43 PM
01/20/16 12:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305 Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
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4 clutch drum. I'll get it apart and look at that seal.
Matt 69 Dart Swinger 340 83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car and even more
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