When measuring the clearance on the clutches do
you use the measurements using wet or dry clutches..
I'm ordering up some clutches and plates for the spare
trans.. the Transtar company tells me that the frictions
are .061 and I assume thats dry.. so how much do they
grow when wet on average.. right now I would be within
.003 on the min of spec using the dry measurements.. but
if they grow .002 each then I would be under the min spec
so I would need to change the snap ring... no big deal
since I have a few of the snap rings right now of the
different thicknesses
thanks

I don't think they really grow, the fluid just don't get all squeezed out between them and will decrease the clearance a tiny bit. If you soak one and measure it with some calipers you will see this as the much smaller area it won't have a noticable affect, if you soak the plate, then measure it stacked between two steels you will see how it is going to change your total measured clearance.

For what it's worth I try to get more than the min clearance, it is a trade off, tighter clearance gives you faster clutch engagement but at the expense of more friction while it is in the other gears. My dad always taught me to get it to the minimum but when another guy (who had a much better reputation) showed me to set them a little loose... it was amazing how much easier the input and output shafts would turn just by hand.

My spec on the clutch is .032 to .055.. I was
trying to get.040 but the company told me that
the .070 steels dont exist any longer and they
have .068 steels now.. so thats what I went with
and the but the snap rings jump .013 to the next
thicker one.. if I run the thicker one that puts
me right at the min.. so it looks like I will end
up with the thinner snap ring with the .013 more
clearance

I usually check them dry but as said above, the amount they grow after soaking is probably minimal.

If you are talking about the rear clutch, then clearance is not real critical. This clutch is not a shifting clutch as it is on in all forward gears. You want some clearance so it doesn't drag in neutral (or reverse) but not so much that you overstroke the apply piston. If you don't have enough and it drags, the vehicle may try to move in neutral and if you have too much, it can overstroke and cause damage to the belleville spring. I try to get them between .025 and .035 and usually towards the higher end of that spec.

The front clutch is a shifting clutch and clearance here is more important. In second gear the steel plates are stationary while the fiber disks are rotating at near engine RPM so you want good clearance. Too much or too little clearance can affect the shift quality a small amount as well. Rule of thumb is .010-.015 per disk and I usually aim at setting the clearance with four and five clutch units at .060-.070.

I like your father always go for the Tighter end of things.
Put both side by side drive them the same till the very end of service life and see which one lasts longer? my money goes on the Tight set up!

BINGO - this

Well after I got the parts today.. none were the
thickness they said.. the fibers were ..055 not
.061.. the steels were .066 not .068.. but with
what I had I got it set at .041 clearance.. the
spec was .032 to .055... its all together and air
checked.. everything looks good.. got to get a filter
tomorrow and put the pan on.. set it in the corner for
the "just in case"... thanks guys

Mine seriously last about 2 times longer than my dads. The tighter clutches heat up more while they are not engaged. There is the same amount of friction material either way, you are not packing more clutch material in it by running tighter clearance.

I also eliminate the wavy snap rings for several reasons but once they start to touch they engage quicker so with the same clearance you have less piston stroke to fully engage the clutch pack so over the life of the clutch you can take up the slack by the extra clearance.

Thinking better test the "just in case", Just saying with your tranny luck. LOL!

Teasing. I respect you

I hear ya there... wish I could test these things
out before I pull the engine/trans to change things
but if that were the case I'd have to build my own
test dyno.. which I have been giving some thought
to.. a frame, engine, a small diff and a load.. no
big deal........ right

Ant this stuff's fun.

I Have only built a few so far sounds like you guys grew up around Tranny builders I envy you guys their.
I am just learning transmission work going by the book still on all my builds so fra. I don't have enough experience yet to play or give advise on the subject sorry.

If I could get a job at a Tranny shop willing to pay me a living wage for learning I would jump at it & leave Airline biz.
I Love the Bench work been playing with T350/400, 700R4 about to do my first 727 once I finish the Paint and body work on my car.
A buddy of mine has his own private Tranny shop he grew up in Tranny shops. I read the books & when I get stuck or into trouble or need a special tool he straitens me out.
he likes it that I read and at least try first!

I talked to Lenny (Ultimate Conv) yesterday about
my conv which he has.. he had it opened up and said
it looked fairly decent.. we talked about getting it
tightened up on the slippage rate.. he can get it a bit
less with the parts that are in it now.. if I wanted about
3%-4% less slippage he would have to change parts but it
would end up with less stall(about 700 rpm less).. knowing
what the dyno said it figured it would be better with the
stall I have now... so I went with his suggestion.. he should
be finished soon and shipped out... I cleaned out the cooler
and the lines.. so this time it SHOULD be starting out clean
EDIT
He also said the hub on it had cracked.. so he'll fix that
also

The wife got a e-mail from UPS saying my conv will
be here tomorrow so it looks like I can have this
thing back together by Saturday... I'll be glad so
I can finish cleaning up my shop... I also need to
take about 30 gals of oil to the parts store to dump
off.... the cooler and lines are all clean now.. so
I'll see how it goes this time

Mr. P hope it goes in without a hitch and works flawlessly. You'll get to do the dragweek deal with it yet.

I got my conv back this afternoon... got the engine
and trans back together and in the car... the bulk
of the work is done.. got the headers on.. just need
to put in the radiator and hook up the sensors and
align the exhaust.. but all the hard work is done

mr. p, if this trans works, could you do a little symposium of the original trans and all the trials and tribulations it took to get the bugs worked out ? i feel this may help others who are thinking of using an a500 or a518 avoid your mishaps. thanks in advance if you may consider this !

Sure... this last one the stator support was the
wrong one.. they have 2 different sizes of input
shafts.. 1.175 and 1.245.. I had the large support
on the small shaft.. I checked all the ports and
seal ring locations but I didnt check that ID on
the support.. I just looked to see if the bushing
was in good shape... I had Scott come by and he is
the one that spotted it.. the other trans had a few
mishaps during assembly.. one time the torrington
bearing for the OD.. that trans did last about 400
miles till it fried the OD.. then one clutch too many
in the OD.. and one time the over running clutch was
put in up side down).. but when it fried the OD it
put metal threw out the trans and conv.. I failed to
send out the conv for cleaning(forgot about it).. the
one that was in it the last time it had high shift
points and no down shift.. had all the gears.. but when
I tore that one down all the friction disc in the reverse
clutch were gone... steel on steel.. still dont understand
why that happened(that trans I had a shop go through it)..
but I really wonder what they did.. it looked like the trans
had about 3/4" of water in it the way things were rusted up
I have no idea where that came from.. I know it wasnt like
that when I had it apart.... but the trans thats in the car
right now is 100% stock with the original pump on it which
does fit the 727 conv.. I found that the 88-91 518 was just
OD and the pump lugs fit the 727 conv.. in 92 they went to
the OD and LU and changed the pump to use the big lugs for the
conv

thanks mr. p ! i'm printing out your reply if you don't mind for future reference.

No problem here... if you just check a few things
on the 518 it can work just fine.. I made up a few
tools and bought the intermediate shaft(a cut down
one) for aligning the OD and direct clutches so you
can get it assembled.. this is a must.. also the
spring compressor in the OD.. that spring is 800#
so care is needed.. I made that tool