Thinking about possibly changing the front end suspension on the 74 Duster I picked up this year. Its a full cage (app 3000 pounds with big block). Car was already raced with a big block but we each kept our drivetrain so I am build a mega block 512 for it with hopes of running 8's in the car. Kinda spoiled by the ease of working on my other cars with struts and rack and pinion steering so I would like to get rid of the k member, tortion bars, and straighten out the steering issues with stock mopar systems. The car already has Wilwood brakes on mopar spindles so I would like to be able to reuse those if possible. This subject has been talked about often but new changes are always coming out. What system would you go with and why. I will be buying a set of Andys big block and small block engine plates so I can run both combos.

I would do a strut front end. Cost is probably less than the beating 5hey give us mopar guys on K members. You can sell the brakes and spindles for a head start on cost.

There's times I wish I was a fox body guy, a world of $200-500 used front ends everywhere

If you trim the K-frame the pan will come right off with the drag link pulled. If you drill the outer tie rod locations, idler arm and pitman arm holes in the drag link you can insert tapered spacers in the holes. Now the entire steering linkage comes off with 4 nuts. The headers don't appear to be an issue. What steering issues, bump steer? caster? easily fixed. This would be my cheap solution.
Doug

Bobsprofab

I really like this idea as with other projects it would keep costs down. What do you think of this system Doug as I could get rid of the tortion bars, use my brakes, free up some room, and have some more adjust-ability. I would still have to deal with bump steer but from the way you sound its doable.


http://www.gerstsuspensions.com/coil-over-conversion-kit.html

Strange struts.. comes with everything
except the rack... $1800-$2000 depending
on what size you want... thats brakes and all

I have a friend that has struts rack and all except brakes that he wants to sell ..plans changed and went with a a arm set up for street use..if you like to pm me ill give you his info might be a deal for you ..I don't really know so wouldn't hurt to talk to him about it

I agree that's what I have . Very nice piece . A friend here in Texas saw mine and got one for his Dart.

S & W, ART have front end frame kits, with Strange struts and steering rack for around $2,500. I'm considering this mod, myself.

That car looks and runs GREAT. Nice job on the front suspension. When I get a chance and an empty bay in my shop I will move this car over and check the front end out. Thanks for the sugestions

I still have basically stock, with a trimmed K-Member in the Cuda. Tubular uppers and lowers. Torsion bars are still in place but headers are a pain as I run a 4 speed. Looking to replace the ProParts headers on there now and was getting ready to build new ones but space is an issue...... Since I run NSS with the Cuda, I must stay with stock. The exception is the control arms, as long as they are bolt in replacements. It does drive VERY well though and I have no complaints there. For me the advantage with the rack with struts would be having room to work on everything. Space is tight in my car.

By the way, what headers are in this pic?

-Dave

i'll try and post a pic of a k-frame I have with tubular lowers on it .
I have been thinking about switching from my bone stock set up for years just haven't yet.

Thank-you. I would appreciate that.

More room for the WIN!! .... appears PBR has "upgraded" for a lot of the same reason I did... ease of making things fit!



I will say, can handles a ton better than it did, easy to adjust front end... can even increase roll out by adjusting lca. Mike at Comp Chassis in Phoenix did this up for me.

I went with the Alterkation for my 67 Coronet. Was able to reuse my Wilwood brakes even though Wilwood competes for being one of the most slimeball companies on earth..............

Room is nice and it will spoil you real quick. This car I'm looking for a few other reasons to. Most tracks rules dictate a diaper on 8 second cars, adding the mega block weight on an already heavier A body, and fast footbrake cars need ways to slow down the hit on bottom bulb racing so adjust-ability is needed. Us 60 years olds like to make things easier when we work on our cars by ourselves AND on the floor. LOL

I was doing some reading on this set-up in the tech archives but it was an older post. Seems guys either love it or hate it but I'll try to dig up some newer info on this company. Having the Wilwood brakes already and being able to still use them would be a big help in keeping costs down.

I can tell you who not to go to, Don't go to High Speed Welding in Chicago they are clueless, don't go to Andy McCoy Chassis in Washington Mo. unless you want your front wheels to break off mid-track,

Thanks for the heads-up. That sounds bad.

struts and be done

Is High Speed Welding the same as the old High Speed Salvage that used to advertise the 2 sbc motors welded together? If it is, you are absolutely right. I would buy a done up [censored] car before having them do anything to my car.

this is it

I LIKE THIS. Who made the lower arm?

Has anyone ran this ^^? I wonder how much travel it has at the wheel?

I have to say I like the looks of the LCA arms in a493demons photos though.

J body does your K bolt in or welded to the car?

To be honest I'm not sure .
Think the guy I got it from said they might be CAP but not I'm sure .

It kinda looks like the old Dillinger Chassis stuff that's no longer available

I was thinking the same

I been using bills Alterkation for 6 years with zero problems i've gone 8.11 at 167 with 1.117 60 foot i can't say enough how well his parts work he's also a great guy to deal with.

Same here Bobs Pro Fab and you can use your brakes

bolt in. I asked him about selling them as a "kit" years ago, but he wasn't interested.... and as Mike said, remember.... this is a RACE CAR. He wasn't too keen on using it for any street use although he said he could build something that he felt would be more "robust" for that duty.

Alterkation on the fish for years with no issues...7.70's in the 1/4 coasting thru and drives like a dream...Also Bill is a great guy to do business with !!

BobsProFab on the Dart and after many miles of driving on the street it's a cats meow...Sure it will be great at the track also and Bob is another good one to do business with !!

Quite frankly there's lots of good option's these days !!
Tory Shellenhammer..(spl)
Hemi Denny (HDK)
Gerst...New to the market but looks good !!
And I'm sure there's others !!!

Coincidentally this is a 74 duster. I was looking at the same thing to lower the car and use better headers. The choice I made was quite a bit of work, but the key components are actually cheaper than any complete bolt on tubular k member kit that I could find.

[url=[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jkathe/media/20151213_130656.jpg.html][/url]

]photobucket[/url] I did have most of the material already on hand, but the strut kit w/brakes, rack, header kit dont cost all that much in comparison.

I like struts but my rules say stock style front suspension. Has to bolt in the stock mounting points. I'm working on something again but no results yet

Looks like an old South Bend with a lot of levers

What's the cost of a Bob's pro fab? It looks pretty straight forward, lots of it resembles stuff my local circle track shop carries... btw check out Lefthander Chassis' website for odds and ends, amazing amount of stuff there

Spareparts; I believe his entry level package started at 3600 for what I wanted about a year ago, very nice quality....but....I spent 1800 in the struts (with brakes and lower control arm kit), 270 in the rack and about 250 in misc stuff like column parts and so on. Granted it doesn't bolt on, may be illegal in some classes and not everyone has fabrication abilities or resources, but it was an easy decision for me and the end product is much better suited for my needs.

Cudaman1969; that is a 1954 MONARCH MACHINE lathe, its an oldie but makes chips just as good as any other I've ever used - lol.

Apologies for the Hi-jacking, I've been looking at this too. What has always concerned me is how they match the rear suspension, for example, if you are using Caltracs, can you get the recommended rise / extension of 5 inches? (IIRC)

That's a very good point to bring up Tig for those looking. I know when I made the choice with my car at the chassis shop that was one other option that was brought up was that if I wanted the car lower he could "re-do" the ladder bar mounting. I know I don't have 5" of travel, nor need it.... but for your application it would be good to know if any of these "kits" would provide that.

Thanks for all the ideas, pictures, and suggestions guys. Lots of good ideas.

If you were to change to a strut set up you would be close
to loosing 300# on the front end.. with that much change
in the front/rear ratio you wouldnt need that travel.. see
what your front/rear weight percentage is now and then with
a strut set up.. you might even need to lower the engine to
help out

looks identical to my CAP lca's and radius rod's , I also run their upper controll arm's and have had no issues, now I just need to find someone that has a tubular K frame that is set up with rack and pinion steering and no motor mounts (i use a plate) so I can use all the stuff that I already have, including my Strange brakes.

Got a set of dillinger lca setting on shelf collecting dust.

Ya I already messaged the manufacture in the link I posted to see if I could use my mopar based Wilwoods that I already have and its a no-go. I would lose lots of money selling mine and rebuying new ones.

John, what spindles are you using and are you planning on changing those also, I would have to go look at my set-up again but if I remember correct every thing bolted to the spindle flange where the origional brakes were attached.

This car is all stock Mopar up front so stock mopar spindles. My small tire 74 Duster is stock mopar spindles too with an after marker system and rack n pinion steering but we did LOTS of work to get the steering right. My black 70 car is really the nicest with strange struts. VERY easy to work on.

I removed the stock 76 disc spindles and went to a factory 10" drum spindle on mine.

If you don't plan on racing in a class that requires a stock type front suspension.........I would dump it all and go struts. Struts and a rack are relatively inexpensive, plus an easy install.

Stock Mopar front end stuff is a pain. Box is in the way, drag link in the way, heavy, etc. And while the headers you show seem to clear everything...........they look small, likely have tire clearance issues and the plugs look like a nightmare.

Race cars should be easy to work on. That and light weight are two of my most important things to consider.

Monte your gtx had a system you built right? How much travel did you have? I'm guessing you didn't need much. My problem(part of it) is on a 26" radial I need front end travel, also I am admittedly kinda cheap so I am trying to build my own.

Just can't understand some of the prices asked for these golden front ends

My car is street/strip and runs Cal-Tracs and not real fast, it ran high 6.50s with the 408 and who knows what it'll run with the 434. I need the travel for my car to work. If I understood what I read I can use my Strange brakes as they are on the large 73 and up spindle.

I e-mailed Carl Gerst and asked about the travel on his coil over conversion and about using it on the street too.

His reply to the travel question:
On the coilover for stock k frame, at the wheel is just a hair over 5", I'd like more, but can't get a longer coilover in without hitting something unfortunately, if you braced the original shock tower with a down tube/roll cage, and mounted into the original shock tower itself, you get get a coilover long enough to get over 6" of travel.

About driving it on the street:
Oh yeah!
This setup is far stronger than factory, and much smoother, no binding on the strut rods either, like the factory ones, all in all, much more stable front suspension.

Currently there are two guys making tubular LCAs. I have the HDK version but Junior636 has bout the same thing and a weld-on pivot suport. I am running the HDK without a support with a little different pivot shaft, but have not had in on the road/track yet. These use 3" travel shocks and get about 4" at the spindle. My UCAs were already on the car when I bought it, and are probably 19 yrs old.

That Dillinger setup was pretty nice but he dropped out I think. Junior636s stuff is the system on that GTS website. He has threads on FABO and YB. I have some pics of my setup on the install thread on my Demon in the susp section.

Your car has the shock towre tied to the snout bar so you would probably not need the support hoop that HDK and junior636 offer. I still used HDKs upper shock mount that goes inside the shock tower and ties to it. It would work with that green car also.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...tml#Post1955700

Mustang 2 frontend

Limited travel and shock options

not that it really matters but, the GTS system is built by 71Street over on FABO. I don't think Junior636 ever sold any of his arms, yet. Although they do look alot alike

Has any one tired the AJE updated kit does not look like a bad kit I would like to here if any body is running one thanks

I built my own, well before there were any aftermarket ones. Build a few and you will see why they are not cheap.

My GTX had very little travel, but that was because I had it tied down and didn't need it, but could have had a LOT.

I used stock upper control arms and built my own lowers and frame brackets. Since I had Wilwood brakes already, I modified a factory spindle to accept a lower balljoint just like the top and built my own steering arms.

For info, most guys don't actually need NEAR as much front travel as they THINK they do

I'm on my 3rd design lol

I hear you on travel but like you, I wanna have the option and limit it from there. But I do no prep stuff and have raced the car on the street a lot. Those are times when I want travel.


Scott do some research on the mopar AJE.... you'll learn REAL quick why it's not popular

I now his first design had some problem was just looking at the design he had now

He has a new design huh? Got a link?

Before you trust a word that AJ tells you, talk to people that have his system in their car and working. Trust me on this.

http://www.ajeracing.com/mopar.php

The stuff does look a lot different than the kit I got. Beware of the powder coating, it covers up a lot of sins.

I have a aje front end in my 71 dart,its drag race only,havent had 1 problem with it,dont know about there street stuffi use competion engerring travel limeters on it set at 3 inch

John,if your interested we have some good used strut front end stuff at the shop,maybe a whole front strut frame section,Call AJ.

Here is one of Tory's designs. I would tell everyone to do mild steel as he gives them away at $1250.

It's very nice stuff John, you know I tested it to 162mph in my car. This would be a lot easier then struts as this just bolts in.

John... this is your best bet... with that mega
block on the front end you will add about 40# to
the front weight.. you need the lightest front end
out there.. thats struts... period

Hey, 1967dartgt - Those are some nice pictures. Tory's stuff is very nice. matt

Thanks Bob. If you aren't to busy today and get a chance can you PM me AJ's phone number. Thanks

I hear you on that about the weight. I'm betting its 40 plus pounds. I'm not a wheelie type of guy and this car did some higher than I prefer for the last owner and in doing so did the funky MOPAR front end movements.

If you go with strut I'd probably be interested in your old brakes

The front suspension in my small tire car was made by Overkill Racecars. When I bought the car Stephen told me the front end could use some work especially since I planned on going from a small block to a big block. With the stock firewall we had to move a couple of bars in the front cradle (for oil pan clearance) and get the engine located before we could start getting the camber and toe-in straightened out. I tried to call Overkill to see if he had any suggestions but was unable to get a hold of him. I left a message an 6 weeks LATER he returned my call. He kinda came out and said WE meaning US had to fix his mess. Its not track tested yet but I think we have his kit mastered. Its a shame you have to fix someone's crap.


http://www.overkillracecars.com/Products.html

BGR,/AJ Casini 412-216-4727 all operators standing by.

Does anyone have a link for this ?

No website. You can pm me any questions you have.

Who makes these "strut" front ends this thread is talking about? I've never seen one.

On both of my cars I put Strange struts on them

They're not a kit as such, any I have seen done were done by chassis shops or done by the owner themselves. Pretty simple really, fab up a K-Frame or cross member, make lower control arms and mounts for the top of the shock. I will see if I can find a pic

_________________________
2011 Drag Pak Challenger 2011 Jerry Bickel Avenger


You need to go back and speak with Mr. Bickel......sounds like you got hustled ...

Rick has posted pics of an ex Pro-Stocker he owned..........think he knows what a strut is..........LOL!!!

Yeah I'd assume so lol.

Half tempted to adapt a strut to mine via brackets that the stock K member bolts pass through... that's still bolt in suspension right?

I have entertained the same thing..."bolt in" is a relatively loose term

John,we also have the fixture for set up and alignment for welding in a strut front end.

I like my RMS set up,but if I didnt buy and wait 9 weeks for my Santuffs...I'd get Torys car would sit lower and it's lighter then mine.

Race car problems^^^^^^


You need a new converter

I have Struts and Rack on my 68 Barracuda now but I wouldn't do it again

Reasons?

Yeah, reasons? I boogered mine up last fall and am seriously looking at struts.

67 dart gt what's his wait time on his mild steel frontend kit ?And was there any weight difference on this verse a stock setup?

Yes it is a lot lighter then factory stuff. It's in the 40 lbs range depending what you choose as cool over. I believe the wait time right now is early spring for one, March or April.

I agree 100%, several years ago I ordered a set of their wheelie bars. They charged my credit card in minutes but it was months before they sent me anything.

Bill

Mokid, you've got to be forthcoming about your situation. There's too many of us planning struts and need to hear your experience. Did you keep stock front frame, or go to a new front clip? Difficulty in getting it done and most importantly why would you not do it again? Thanks

1967dartgt I sent you a pm........I think...LOL

I know a few guys running the HDK setup, and I know Denny, so I am biased. But it is a nice setup: http://www.moparsuspension.com/mopar-suspension-kits/a-body-front-suspension-kits-67-76.php

While the HDK kit maybe nice, it is a blatant copy RMS kit. I wouldn't purchase one for that reason.

i have the HDK in my duster.

it has a few differences than the RMS.

-upper coilover mounts are different giving you 2 inches more travel.
-Denny offers different styles for different applications.
-the lower control arms are adjustable giving you adjustable track width.

he made mine with no motor mounts or sway bar stuff since im using a motor plate.

And Denny is fantastic to deal with and is a true mopar hot rodder

No, it's not a blatant copy. Similar maybe, exact copy....NO. It's a K-member for a Mopar. Of course they are similar........they are all similar because they all do the same thing and bolt in the same place. How could they not be similar

They are NOT all similar especially the one in 67darts compared to mine,and by God none of the 2 i just mentioned are like that magnum force thing that looks like it belongs on a military vehicle.
Happy New year.

For a coil over conversion I like the looks of the GTS kit over the Hemi Denny kit. I may give him a ring Monday.

They all do the same thing............eliminate the torsion bars in favor of coilovers and bolt in the stock location.............that seems similar to me.

That's the great thing about the Internet, you are intitled to your own opinion. You may feel this way Monte, but I have had talks with a certain owner of a company on this subject and he feels otherwise. It's funny how RMS offers all of those options on his front end and now so does HDK. Interesting, but just my opinion. It's great being able to drive to RMS and Tory's shop to be able to talk face to face on these matters. RMS by far offers the most options for your front end kits.

Does anyone know if these bolt in Shock tower supports allow for stud type shocks to be mounted near or in the stock location? Just wondering as this would make changing over to coil overs pretty easy without changing very much.

Tory's setup your shocks mount in stock location. He makes a bracket that ties in to your upper control arms if you need it. I have Afco da stud mounted shocks on my car.

Do you have any pics with the upper shock supports mounted? I've got some afco stud mount shocks that I plan on using with the stock control arms. I could go ahead convert to coil overs if one of these supports allows for that style of mounting at the top of the shock. Would be nice to lose the torsion bars and the weight.

Brad, do you not use Torys uppers? They're kinda neat. Bolt into the stock upper mount and tie into the upper control arm bolts. Mine use an eyelet on top.

No I don't use them, I have my cage tied in there.

I've notice on Bob's website that he shows his k-frame front suspension on Rick's challenger and (it could be just the angle of the pic.)
was taken, but how low does this k-member sits?And also I know there's video out there with Rick's challenger using Bobs front suspension on it but I can't seem to find it.

You mean like this?

I'm leaning towards the blatant copy angle. I also respect/compliment the choice not to purchase from that aspect. If I remember correctly, it originally was intended as a copy, but poorly executed, and everyone knows a copy is never as good as the original. It seems to have evolved with improvements of the the original copy, I agree. The few changes noted here might make a plausible defense for a patent (there is non existing) infringement dispute, but RMS is clearly the leader in this solution, and its well deserved title, my internet opinion.

Do any of you think that RMS, Magnum Force, or whoever was the VERY FIRST person to ever make a bolt in K-member? Using some logic expressed here, it would seem every one is a COPY of somebody's. Hot rodding is seeing a market and improving upon what is available in that market. Why is it a direct copy? Because it is square tubing? You only have 2 choices, square or round. So if it was round who's would it be a copy of? The upper shock mounting is not remotely similar.