Re: Small block guys Timing Chain tensioner !!???
[Re: dizuster]
#1940512
10/28/15 05:37 PM
10/28/15 05:37 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 462 Stockholm, Sweden
fed
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 462
Stockholm, Sweden
|
I built this Engine like eight years ago! Bought it back 3 owners later Street/strip car. Im going to use it again
Cuda, -70 Valiant-65 AWB, Valiant Signet200 -65 Topchopped dragcar. Topolino Fuel Altered. NostalgiaFED Sold, SuperComp Bantam Altered, Sold Ex Harlan Thompsons Nitro funny car American Graffiti Sold,
|
|
|
Re: Small block guys Timing Chain tensioner !!???
[Re: RAY1969CARS]
#1940576
10/28/15 07:22 PM
10/28/15 07:22 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 733 jacksonville,FLORIDA
slammedR/T
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 733
jacksonville,FLORIDA
|
I have had two mopar chain tensioners break on me, both times they broke at where the spring is attached to the tensioner. Second one broke off and started to wear a hole in the side of my billet aluminum timing chain cover. I will NEVER! use one again on a performance engine.
2000 Dakota R/T, 408 magnum, 727, Indy heads 1000cfm 4150 carb, 93 octane fuel. motor; 10.258 @ 132.78 200 shot; 9.262 @ 144.69 racemagnum
|
|
|
Re: Small block guys Timing Chain tensioner !!???
[Re: dogdays]
#1941038
10/29/15 02:39 PM
10/29/15 02:39 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
|
master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
|
Article was in Circle Track, yes it was probably a 355 chevy and the chain and gear were about the same while the belt drive made more than 10 more hp.
R. IIRC that was a 4 gear drive, not a 3 gear. I'd love to see the article if it was a 3 gear. Can you post the link?
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
|
|
|
Re: Small block guys Timing Chain tensioner !!???
[Re: RAY1969CARS]
#1941040
10/29/15 02:42 PM
10/29/15 02:42 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,958 Oakdale CT
gdonovan
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,958
Oakdale CT
|
I just use a good double roller chain, less friction.
"I think its got a hemi"
|
|
|
Re: Small block guys Timing Chain tensioner !!???
[Re: gdonovan]
#1941071
10/29/15 03:41 PM
10/29/15 03:41 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
|
master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
|
I just use a good double roller chain, less friction. Less friction than what?
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
|
|
|
Re: Small block guys Timing Chain tensioner !!???
[Re: madscientist]
#1941123
10/29/15 05:26 PM
10/29/15 05:26 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
|
Motor oil on nylon.. cant get much slipperier than that, I would say the friction would be minimal at best, also mine has been on my 408 for 7 years now with no wear issues or breakage.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
|
|
|
Re: Small block guys Timing Chain tensioner !!???
[Re: RAY1969CARS]
#1941129
10/29/15 05:42 PM
10/29/15 05:42 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,478 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,478
Kalispell Mt.
|
I have torn apart 100s of magnum motors and only see them on 5 speed equiped trucks from the factory, supposed to keep it from jumping if you park pointing up a hill with the trans in reverse or vise versa. If you acidentally let it pop backwards it can make it jump when the chain gets sloppy. The 318 in my dakota with 5 speed came with one so they are not V6 only. Also they never used them with a double roller chain only the one with all the links sandwitched together so lots of surface area to absorb the load.
Based on all the guys with problems VS no problems I would say don't use it but I have never used on on anything but the factory style chain in a rig that came with one from the factory.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
|
|
|
Re: Small block guys Timing Chain tensioner !!???
[Re: RAY1969CARS]
#1941613
10/30/15 12:25 PM
10/30/15 12:25 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699 Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
|
As to the "wears out the tensioner pads" issue - timing chains are built from a lot of stamped steel pieces that nothing has been done to dress the rough stamped edges. I wrap the chain around the timing gear and dress the edges of the outside of the chain with the wire wheel on the bench grinder, followed by a very thorough cleaning. This knocks loose and removes all the little burrs that chews up the pads, and leaves a noticeably smoother, almost polished surface.
Pretty simple fix, HUH?
Free advice and worth every penny... Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
|
|
|
Re: Small block guys Timing Chain tensioner !!???
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#1941711
10/30/15 05:26 PM
10/30/15 05:26 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
|
As to the "wears out the tensioner pads" issue - timing chains are built from a lot of stamped steel pieces that nothing has been done to dress the rough stamped edges. I wrap the chain around the timing gear and dress the edges of the outside of the chain with the wire wheel on the bench grinder, followed by a very thorough cleaning. This knocks loose and removes all the little burrs that chews up the pads, and leaves a noticeably smoother, almost polished surface.
Pretty simple fix, HUH? with this, rough edges from the stamped links can act as saw teeth and cut the nylon pad.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
|
|
|
Re: Small block guys Timing Chain tensioner !!???
[Re: dartman366]
#1941767
10/30/15 07:23 PM
10/30/15 07:23 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,272 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
|
"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,272
PA.
|
I find it kinda funny to see how many guys think the need justifies the risks. I can't tell you how many 9-10 second passes I put on a "high quality" low cost timing chain and never had an issue with jumping timing. Heck I don't even have my MSD distributor locked out and only use a thrust collar. And my junk is raced weekly from April 1st into November. Maybe for those running a cheap timing chain its worth the risks.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.38@138.67
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
|
|
|
Re: Small block guys Timing Chain tensioner !!???
[Re: AndyF]
#1941844
10/30/15 10:31 PM
10/30/15 10:31 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,958 Oakdale CT
gdonovan
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,958
Oakdale CT
|
Here is what the tensioner pad looks like after a few dyno pulls when using a high perf double roller chain. Small block mopar didn't come with them for decades with no problem now people insist you need one. Use a good double roller and call it a day.
"I think its got a hemi"
|
|
|
Re: Small block guys Timing Chain tensioner !!???
[Re: gdonovan]
#2910373
04/15/21 04:42 AM
04/15/21 04:42 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 16 London England UK
Matt_Snowball
member
|
member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 16
London England UK
|
Thought I'd add my experience to this.
Chain tensioner spring broken after less than 40 hours. Pieces of spring in the oil pan. Cloyes chain, Cloyes tensioner. The broken spring end also wore a hole in the timing housing.
Last edited by Matt_Snowball; 04/15/21 04:45 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Small block guys Timing Chain tensioner !!???
[Re: Matt_Snowball]
#2910375
04/15/21 05:41 AM
04/15/21 05:41 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,477 Answering the call of the wild
ThermoQuad
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,477
Answering the call of the wild
|
If there are problems/failure with the chain tensioner there are assembly issues that were not resolved... No ifs ands or buts. I'm sure the choice of chain has a lot to do with "problems". I ran small blocks on the road course for years [decades] with a tensioner. 4 engines built with tensioners. One engine had to come apart due to valve springs fracturing [chinese mopar performance springs] . No issues found with the chain and tensioner - tensioner was reused....thousands of miles road course pounding...then thousands more. Extended periods of operation between 2500 - 6500 rpm - like 45 minutes of non stop pounding beside thousands of miles of spirited driving. [go get your hellcat] The engine that had to come apart had over 12,000 miles of pounding... If there was going to be a chain tensioner problem i would have found it. Must be lucky... The tensioner provides rock solid timing and keeps the cam from running "late".
|
|
|
Re: Small block guys Timing Chain tensioner !!???
[Re: ThermoQuad]
#2910383
04/15/21 06:42 AM
04/15/21 06:42 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 16 London England UK
Matt_Snowball
member
|
member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 16
London England UK
|
I would certainly not rule out any assembly or parts selection issues.
If anyone is able to suggest any particular issues I should consider, and also how and why I could choose a more suitable chain, it would be much appreciated ?
Thanks
Matt
Last edited by Matt_Snowball; 04/15/21 06:43 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Small block guys Timing Chain tensioner !!???
[Re: FurryStump]
#2910478
04/15/21 12:47 PM
04/15/21 12:47 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,638 Oakland, MI
dizuster
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,638
Oakland, MI
|
I used them on several motors through the years. Always with a good double roller timing chain. There is NOTHING wrong with trying to better control the timing, so it makes sense why you'd want it.
That being said, on my last build, when I took it apart to freshen it, mine looked EXACTLY like AndyF's picture above. I can't tell you why I had some success before, and later not. My guess is it has to do with how tight the chain is to start with. When the chain is really tight, you really have to preload the spring on the tensioner. I'm guessing that side load really digs in sometimes, and not others for whatever reason.
For the record, I won't use them anymore. Not worth the risk in my opinion for minor gains.
|
|
|
|
|