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Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: Greg55_99] #193440
01/18/09 09:56 AM
01/18/09 09:56 AM
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Posts: 350
central IL
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myduster360 Offline
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Quote:

It's a nice looking piece...

Greg




Greg,

Are you certain that the upper spring seats are designed to be completely unsupported?

If you look at the mounting locations of the cross memenber, the entire wieght of the front end is cantilevered out on the spring mount. I cant find a decent pic to confirm this but I don't think its designed to do that. Al isn't very fatique "friendly" and the lower half of the spring seat wil be deflecting A LOT, during normal driving. I think the AL would fracture eventually if not sup)ported(5k-10k miles.

It looks to me like the aluminum spring seat just helps during assembly, but a portion of the frame is suppose to contact the spring seat to transmit the load to the rest of the chassis.

I don't mean, in any way, to discourage you, i think the idea is great. Just please varify that the Al upper spring seat needs a reinforced mount to the chassis/frame rail.

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: myduster360] #193441
01/18/09 10:52 AM
01/18/09 10:52 AM
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Greg55_99 Offline OP
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I believe it already has that. Here's a couple of guys that swapped the Crown IFS into trucks. It's looks supported to me.

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/562648372VFJwCq

http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e126/onelapduster/F100%20Custom/



Greg

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: Greg55_99] #193442
01/18/09 12:46 PM
01/18/09 12:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 551
Colo Springs, Co
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dragaddict Offline
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Now you went and did it. I have a 69 Coronet hot rod and a 2003 Mercury Marauder. If I could get the Dodge to handle like the Merc for less than a grand it would be great. Keep us posted and let me know if pics from the Merc would help.

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: dragaddict] #193443
01/18/09 01:52 PM
01/18/09 01:52 PM
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Greg55_99 Offline OP
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Quote:

Now you went and did it. I have a 69 Coronet hot rod and a 2003 Mercury Marauder. If I could get the Dodge to handle like the Merc for less than a grand it would be great. Keep us posted and let me know if pics from the Merc would help.




YES! There IS something you can do for me! Can you remove the front wheel from the Merc and take a pic of the entire front side. I need to see how the lower A arm attaches to the frame. It looks like it stretches back about 6-8".

Greg

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: Dartslantsix] #193444
01/18/09 01:54 PM
01/18/09 01:54 PM
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Greg55_99 Offline OP
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Quote:

Clair pointed me to this thread, looks like a great project! I've got 3-4 more articles to write on the IRS I put in my Dart. The first one is about how I chose the thunderbird and the second one was about my subframe.




"If you build a better mousetrap... the world will beat a path to your door."

You should start selling those... Do one for an F-body?

Greg

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: Greg55_99] #193445
01/18/09 03:12 PM
01/18/09 03:12 PM
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central IL
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myduster360 Offline
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Quote:

I believe it already has that. Here's a couple of guys that swapped the Crown IFS into trucks. It's looks supported to me.

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/562648372VFJwCq

http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e126/onelapduster/F100%20Custom/



Greg




Yes you're right. I knew there had to be something there to transmit the load. I can't believe I totally missed the huge cast iron bracket attached at the top of the spring seat.


1972 Swinger 3.6L Pentastar
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Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: Greg55_99] #193446
01/18/09 03:13 PM
01/18/09 03:13 PM
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Posts: 551
Colo Springs, Co
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dragaddict Offline
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Took the wheel off and a few pics. will post one here but you should prob PM me with an e mail if you need several or I will have to do a bunch of posts unless someone computer literate wants to jump in and field that part of this.

4956407-suspention042.jpg (1068 downloads)
Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: dragaddict] #193447
01/18/09 03:16 PM
01/18/09 03:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
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Colo Springs, Co
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dragaddict Offline
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OK one more. That crossmember could support a C body without issues. The wheel has a huge backspace.

4956413-suspention041.jpg (778 downloads)
Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: dragaddict] #193448
01/30/09 01:11 PM
01/30/09 01:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
BBR Offline
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Amarillo, Texas
BS on the wheel should be 5.72"

I was just thinking about this front suspension and stumbled upon this thread.

There's an F100 around the corner from me that I keep eyeballing and thinking about this....

As for mopar swap-ibility, I'd want to know the outside dims of a b-body subframe.


Drag Week 2011 - 77th place - DD
Drag Week 2012 - 2nd place SRBB N/A
Drag Week 2014 - Kapooya
RMRW 2018
RMRW 2020
Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: BBR] #193449
02/01/09 12:48 PM
02/01/09 12:48 PM
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Greg55_99 Offline OP
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Quote:

BS on the wheel should be 5.72"

I was just thinking about this front suspension and stumbled upon this thread.

There's an F100 around the corner from me that I keep eyeballing and thinking about this....

As for mopar swap-ibility, I'd want to know the outside dims of a b-body subframe.




Anybody want to take a wack at measuring the distance between the frame rails on a B and E body?

Greg

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: Greg55_99] #193450
02/01/09 01:43 PM
02/01/09 01:43 PM
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Posts: 3,001
Coram, NY
Pool Fixer Offline
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Coram, NY
Quote:

Quote:

BS on the wheel should be 5.72"

I was just thinking about this front suspension and stumbled upon this thread.

There's an F100 around the corner from me that I keep eyeballing and thinking about this....

As for mopar swap-ibility, I'd want to know the outside dims of a b-body subframe.




Anybody want to take a wack at measuring the distance between the frame rails on a B and E body?

Greg




this might help..it's frame dimension diagram from my 68 charger FSM

4991661-framediagram.jpg (1195 downloads)
Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: Pool Fixer] #193451
02/01/09 01:51 PM
02/01/09 01:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,001
Coram, NY
Pool Fixer Offline
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can't see it from that diagram...but outside of rail to outside of rail looks like 33.92"...and that demension on that diagram looks like it's not even all the way to the outer edge of the drawing...

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: Pool Fixer] #193452
02/01/09 02:04 PM
02/01/09 02:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,314
Carstairs, Alberta, Canada
dave571 Offline
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Those first two pics are of my clip and truck!

It is a nice piece. Keep in mind you need 16" wheels as a minimum. The newer crown vic cop cars actually come with 17" steel wheels.

This frame needs to be dead flat where it's installed, whuich is why it seems to work so well with old trucks etc...

I think you could make it work on an F body, but you may have make some brackets or something.



Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: Pool Fixer] #193453
02/01/09 04:12 PM
02/01/09 04:12 PM
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Posts: 7,131
Amarillo, Texas
BBR Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

BS on the wheel should be 5.72"

I was just thinking about this front suspension and stumbled upon this thread.

There's an F100 around the corner from me that I keep eyeballing and thinking about this....

As for mopar swap-ibility, I'd want to know the outside dims of a b-body subframe.




Anybody want to take a wack at measuring the distance between the frame rails on a B and E body?

Greg




this might help..it's frame dimension diagram from my 68 charger FSM





I'm stupid...I have the MP chassis manual sitting on a shelf....


Drag Week 2011 - 77th place - DD
Drag Week 2012 - 2nd place SRBB N/A
Drag Week 2014 - Kapooya
RMRW 2018
RMRW 2020
Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: BBR] #193454
02/02/09 12:57 AM
02/02/09 12:57 AM
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Greg55_99 Offline OP
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Seems there's always a fly in the ointment. Dragaddict was kind enough to send me some measurements from his Merc. Looking at pics of the Crown Vic suspension, and laying a tape on my F-body frame rails, it's obvious the Ford cradle will fit there. My F-body is a hair over 35" between the rails. That's the good part. The BAD part is the location of the Ford lower A arm and how it bolts to the chassis. According to Dragaddict, it sticks back about 18" from the center of the lower shock. Now that works fine on an old truck with a frame that doesn't have much contour, but on the F-body, it would hit the frame. In the pic, the top shows the stock Volare front suspension. See how the frame contours down. On the bottom, you can see the Ford suspension bolted into an old truck. The truck frame has less contour downward so the lower A arm pivot can be simply bolted to the bottom of it. Doesn't look like this will work for me....

Greg

4993741-Fbody22.jpg (4661 downloads)
Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: Greg55_99] #193455
02/02/09 10:15 PM
02/02/09 10:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis Offline
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Greg,
It looks like the F-bod frame is also thinner than the truck where the Phord parts will bolt up. Maybe you could space it down a bit to strengthen the frame where it mounts and line up the LCA mount better? Purely from a ride height standpoint, you'd probably want to mock up the subframe to see what ride height you'd have to have for a reasonable stance. With the F-bod kicking up so high, it may sit way too low to live with if you just bolted it in. That's something I'm mulling on for my Dad's kit car where we're going to use a Jaguar front suspesion (also a nice bolt-in component).

Clair

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: Clair_Davis] #193456
02/02/09 11:28 PM
02/02/09 11:28 PM
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Greg55_99 Offline OP
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Quote:

Greg,
It looks like the F-bod frame is also thinner than the truck where the Phord parts will bolt up. Maybe you could space it down a bit to strengthen the frame where it mounts and line up the LCA mount better? Purely from a ride height standpoint, you'd probably want to mock up the subframe to see what ride height you'd have to have for a reasonable stance. With the F-bod kicking up so high, it may sit way too low to live with if you just bolted it in. That's something I'm mulling on for my Dad's kit car where we're going to use a Jaguar front suspesion (also a nice bolt-in component).

Clair




The F body frame is a hair over 3.5" at the point where it meets the subframe. The Ford mounting space is wider so one would have to weld in more frame to make it fit.

Greg

4996575-Fbody233.JPG (468 downloads)
Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: Greg55_99] #193457
02/02/09 11:50 PM
02/02/09 11:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
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Grand Haven, MI
Quote:

Quote:

Greg,
It looks like the F-bod frame is also thinner than the truck where the Phord parts will bolt up. Maybe you could space it down a bit to strengthen the frame where it mounts and line up the LCA mount better? Purely from a ride height standpoint, you'd probably want to mock up the subframe to see what ride height you'd have to have for a reasonable stance. With the F-bod kicking up so high, it may sit way too low to live with if you just bolted it in. That's something I'm mulling on for my Dad's kit car where we're going to use a Jaguar front suspesion (also a nice bolt-in component).

Clair




The F body frame is a hair over 3.5" at the point where it meets the subframe. The Ford mounting space is wider so one would have to weld in more frame to make it fit.

Greg




This front end it way to wide for an F/M/J. our cars are ~61-62" disc face to disc face (where the wheel bolts up), the crown vic front end is ~68" wide. you'd need some super mega backspace rims and fender flares to get the wheels inside the body. now this looks like it would be an interesting setup for a fuselage body C though....


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Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: patrick] #193458
02/03/09 01:07 AM
02/03/09 01:07 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 612
Nampa, ID
None2Slow Offline
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Nampa, ID
What about looking into the 98-2001? Crown vic. I know that in 2002 they used a different setup for the arms and all. Shocks are a different part due to the redesign. They also had a deeper offset rim as well. Still needed 16" rims though.

Re: Boneyard Front Suspension [Re: None2Slow] #193459
02/03/09 08:35 AM
02/03/09 08:35 AM
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Greg55_99 Offline OP
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Quote:

What about looking into the 98-2001? Crown vic. I know that in 2002 they used a different setup for the arms and all. Shocks are a different part due to the redesign. They also had a deeper offset rim as well. Still needed 16" rims though.




From what I can see, some of them had a stamped steel lower A arm and others had a cast aluminum one. Maybe that's what the difference is. Problem is, it looks like the attachment points are still the same between them.

Greg

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