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Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: madscientist] #1914054
09/16/15 10:15 PM
09/16/15 10:15 PM
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WI
mopar873 Offline
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Like madscientist said though, for every one of us that would buy one, there are three guys that would buy a cherry 230 or 630 block for too much $ and stick 1200 bucks or more of machining, caps, etc into it instead of springing for a new block. Bottom line is, if the opportunity does come up, purchasing has to mirror verbal desires or it might be the last one period.

Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: camastomcat] #1914137
09/16/15 11:55 PM
09/16/15 11:55 PM
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Monte_Smith Offline
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The answer to this question is VERY simple.........PROFIT MARGIN. Dart, World, Brodix and any other number of companies could EASILY tool up and make both big and small Mopar blocks. Problem is, they can't sell enough of them. You guys seem to think the demand is high and that's wrong. The demand is not high even on this little website, much less the hobby in general. IF there was money to be made.......SOMEBODY would be making it.
Like it or hate it, Mopar people are notoriously known for NOT supporting the aftermarket and the available parts show that.........Sure, there is a boat load of mildy warmed over factory style heads out there, but there ain't a nickels worth of difference in any of them. So why is THAT area so well supported and nothing else?.........because THAT is what the majority of Mopar people buy and do. Mildy warmed over stock type stuff. There hasn't been a serious effort Big block head is decades and won't be, because there is nobody to buy them

Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: Sammy] #1914147
09/17/15 12:06 AM
09/17/15 12:06 AM
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Monte_Smith Offline
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Originally Posted By Sammy
I called Indy the other day and Russ Flagle got on the phone. Boy was that an eye opener.
I asked him about their Indy blocks and availability and options that they do for their customer. He asked me if Indy was going to do the build for me.
I said no, just want to buy the block and a few of their inhouse modifications and told Russ I will assemble it myself. He hung up on me.
There has GOT to be more to this story. Russ is not the most personable guy out there, we all know that. But they have never treated me anything less than good and I have never had any more issues with an INDY block than any other brand of block. Plus they sell lots of blocks............so there is more to this story.

Many lament the lack of blocks and that's true for an iron block. But you can order an INDY alum block and have it in a few weeks. You don't want to deal with INDY, fine, buy it through a dealer instead, but don't say you can't get one, because you can. As far as work needed. I usually spend about the same prep time on an INDY as I have to on an aftermarket Donovan block, so I don't understand all the fuss myself. You want a PERFECT block, ready to drop parts in when you uncrate it.........sorry, I don't really know where you get those for ANY brand. I just spent about two days prepping a 12k billet block for a Chevy build. You would think at 12k, that block would be ready to throw parts in, but it's far from it........so not sure what guys expect from a 5k INDY block

Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: camastomcat] #1914152
09/17/15 12:11 AM
09/17/15 12:11 AM
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LONG ISLAND
fishy340 Offline
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I disagree with some of you to an extent...the demand is alot lower then if could be because of price period.
My 48* block cost 2400 and needed another 2000+ in machine work which I think kills the normal dudes desire.
If Dart can do for a mopar sb what they do for an iron eagle you could sell twice the amount which I beleive is a few hundred blocks a year.4800 or 2500 complete is a HUGE difference.

Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: fishy340] #1914160
09/17/15 12:29 AM
09/17/15 12:29 AM
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State of Corruption
camdog440 Offline
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I agree with Monte on this one. We don't spend the money on the high dollar aftermarket parts.

Take a look at the Jeg's catalog from 10 years ago... and today.

What do you see:
purple shaft cams
super stock springs
electronic ignition kits
pinion snubbers

This must be what sells to Mopar enthusiasts.

Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: camastomcat] #1914163
09/17/15 12:37 AM
09/17/15 12:37 AM
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It costs a LOT to tool up and make blocks. Chevy blocks are cheaper because they sell a gazillion of them. Aftermarket Mopar blocks will NEVER be as cheap as Chevy and Ford..........and if that is what the guys are waiting for, something CHEAP.........just build a Chevy and be done with it.

Guys EXPECT to pay more for HEMI parts. Now why is that? Cast iron is cast iron. A crank is a crank and a rod is a rod, yet HEMI parts cost more, we all know it and we accept it. WHY? because they are pretty scarce, that's why. In the performance world, especially aftermarket, Mopars are also pretty scarce, as compared to Chevy and Ford. Scarcity means EXPENSIVE and that will never change on hard to find parts. So if the main point of contention, or lack of buying is based on a Mopar block SHOULD cost the same as Chevy............well you can just forget that nonsense. NEVER gonna happen

Engineering, tooling, core boxes, foundry costs, machining, all costs the same, regardless of the brand. For all intents and purposes, all small blocks will cost the same to produce.......HOWEVER......one type you will sell 10,000 a year and the other a few hundred. strictly based on return for investment, the one you sell few of HAS to cost more. It's simple business. These companies sell parts to make money, not because we NEED them, or they feel sorry for a segment

Last edited by Monte_Smith; 09/17/15 12:56 AM.
Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: Monte_Smith] #1914187
09/17/15 01:08 AM
09/17/15 01:08 AM
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Washington
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madscientist Offline
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Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
It costs a LOT to tool up and make blocks. Chevy blocks are cheaper because they sell a gazillion of them. Aftermarket Mopar blocks will NEVER be as cheap as Chevy and Ford..........and if that is what the guys are waiting for, something CHEAP.........just build a Chevy and be done with it.

Guys EXPECT to pay more for HEMI parts. Now why is that? Cast iron is cast iron. A crank is a crank and a rod is a rod, yet HEMI parts cost more, we all know it and we accept it. WHY? because they are pretty scarce, that's why. In the performance world, especially aftermarket, Mopars are also pretty scarce, as compared to Chevy and Ford. Scarcity means EXPENSIVE and that will never change on hard to find parts. So if the main point of contention, or lack of buying is based on a Mopar block SHOULD cost the same as Chevy............well you can just forget that nonsense. NEVER gonna happen

Engineering, tooling, core boxes, foundry costs, machining, all costs the same, regardless of the brand. For all intents and purposes, all small blocks will cost the same to produce.......HOWEVER......one type you will sell 10,000 a year and the other a few hundred. strictly based on return for investment, the one you sell few of HAS to cost more. It's simple business. These companies sell parts to make money, not because we NEED them, or they feel sorry for a segment



You can type your fingers to the bone, talk until your tongue wears your teeth to nubs and the Chrysler guys will NEVER get that GM outsells the Chrysler 500:1 at a MINIMUM. I have a rule in engine building and that is any small block over 500 HP MUST have an aftermarket block and ANY 600 HP BB gets an aftermarket block. Try and sell that to a MoPar guy who thinks Trick Flow heads with stock intake and exhaust patterns and stock rockers is going to revolutionize his world, when for a few bucks more he could do a B1 and KILL the TF head. But no, they whine about really little money. I call that stepping over donuts to scoop up dog turds.

Nope, the backwards MoPar culture is it's own killer. It's a slow grisly death, but a death none the less.

If I was seriously racing again I'd do it with a "BBC", quotes used because GM never made a 5.0 bore spacing block, but they call it a chevy. Why would you waste your time with anything else?

Last edited by madscientist; 09/17/15 01:09 AM.

Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: Monte_Smith] #1914190
09/17/15 01:12 AM
09/17/15 01:12 AM
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Winterpeg, Canada
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hvyweight Offline
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Having searched for a tall deck R3 for serveral months, I almost gave up. Internet searching and countless phone calls netted me one, in fact 2 of them. Did I pay lots for them you bet. Is this going to slow progress on my new ride you bet. I paid up amd moved on.

We had nothing before and guess what we still raced. I am hopeful that eventually things will come full circle and we will see some new blocks in the near future.

Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: camastomcat] #1914223
09/17/15 02:08 AM
09/17/15 02:08 AM
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I'll agree with Monte and others on the costs. If it costs one million dollars (just an example to make the math easy for me) to tool up a block casting, you have to amortize that cost over how many blocks you think you can sell. If the Chevy guys will buy 10,000 blocks, then that is $100 per block. If a Hemi/RB block sells only 1000 units, then that adds $1000 per block to the costs. If it takes ten years to sell the 1000 blocks, then they need to take that into account by figuring the present value of the sales, or keep raising the price of the block every year to compensate for the time value of money.

If I understand it right, Chrysler pulled the tooling out of World Products for the cast iron blocks. So, hopefully, that means the tooling still exists to be used and/or modified by another casting house. A small glimmer of hope anyway.


Floyd Lippencott IV
Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: madscientist] #1914231
09/17/15 02:21 AM
09/17/15 02:21 AM
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Monte_Smith Offline
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Originally Posted By madscientist
Originally Posted By Monte_Smith
It costs a LOT to tool up and make blocks. Chevy blocks are cheaper because they sell a gazillion of them. Aftermarket Mopar blocks will NEVER be as cheap as Chevy and Ford..........and if that is what the guys are waiting for, something CHEAP.........just build a Chevy and be done with it.

Guys EXPECT to pay more for HEMI parts. Now why is that? Cast iron is cast iron. A crank is a crank and a rod is a rod, yet HEMI parts cost more, we all know it and we accept it. WHY? because they are pretty scarce, that's why. In the performance world, especially aftermarket, Mopars are also pretty scarce, as compared to Chevy and Ford. Scarcity means EXPENSIVE and that will never change on hard to find parts. So if the main point of contention, or lack of buying is based on a Mopar block SHOULD cost the same as Chevy............well you can just forget that nonsense. NEVER gonna happen

Engineering, tooling, core boxes, foundry costs, machining, all costs the same, regardless of the brand. For all intents and purposes, all small blocks will cost the same to produce.......HOWEVER......one type you will sell 10,000 a year and the other a few hundred. strictly based on return for investment, the one you sell few of HAS to cost more. It's simple business. These companies sell parts to make money, not because we NEED them, or they feel sorry for a segment



You can type your fingers to the bone, talk until your tongue wears your teeth to nubs and the Chrysler guys will NEVER get that GM outsells the Chrysler 500:1 at a MINIMUM. I have a rule in engine building and that is any small block over 500 HP MUST have an aftermarket block and ANY 600 HP BB gets an aftermarket block. Try and sell that to a MoPar guy who thinks Trick Flow heads with stock intake and exhaust patterns and stock rockers is going to revolutionize his world, when for a few bucks more he could do a B1 and KILL the TF head. But no, they whine about really little money. I call that stepping over donuts to scoop up dog turds.

Nope, the backwards MoPar culture is it's own killer. It's a slow grisly death, but a death none the less.

If I was seriously racing again I'd do it with a "BBC", quotes used because GM never made a 5.0 bore spacing block, but they call it a chevy. Why would you waste your time with anything else?
True.......BUT, that head came as a direct result of the DRCE program. So that's as much Chevy as anything...........well Oldsmobile really. They are called that, because WJ was sponsored by Olds during the development, so they were Olds heads. The big bore space was designed for IHRA Pro-Stock

Can always slap some Mopar stickers on the valve covers of the 5.0 motor and say they are "Eicke" heads...........who would know the difference.........LOL

Last edited by Monte_Smith; 09/17/15 02:25 AM.
Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: camastomcat] #1914234
09/17/15 02:27 AM
09/17/15 02:27 AM
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aZLiViN
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Think I got the last 9.20 deck siamese R3 block from the Warren MI depot delivered to work for $2400..... by the time I got to the dance, the party was over. Sad to think that if I hurt the block, all the other associated parts on it are deemed useless.

Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: camastomcat] #1914257
09/17/15 04:40 AM
09/17/15 04:40 AM
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North Central, Indiana
Roughbird72 Offline
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Can't argue with Monte's & madscientist's assessment.
Pretty much boils down to there's not enough of us & at times we're our own worst enemy.
Kinda in the same boat the B.O.P. & AMC guys are in.


72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: camastomcat] #1914258
09/17/15 04:46 AM
09/17/15 04:46 AM
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Park Forest, IL
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We had a guy on the Slant board call Edelbrock and tell the sales guy that if Edelbrock cast an aluminum head for a Slant they would sell "thousands" of them. I got my pee-pee slapped for calling him a fooking idiot.

Truth is, I have personally been involved in 3 attempts to get an alloy head done and we could never even get 10 people to commit to buying one so the project always died.

Kinda the same as what is happening with the big and small blocks, even when people are willing to build a good part, too few are willing to buy it. bawling

The bright side is there will always be someone come along and call you a dream crusher when you point out the facts of why nobody wants to make Mopar parts. fart


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: camastomcat] #1914287
09/17/15 09:42 AM
09/17/15 09:42 AM
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back in Georgia
dthemi Offline
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Yeah, mopar blocks are hard to get. KB is still the best block, and they're still, despite all adversity trying to get it done. They, like many businesses that need foundries struggle because the military is keeping too many of them tied up making real money.

I've had 2 KB's ordered for a long while now. Sucks to wait, but at least they're not cramming junk in a box, and calling it a block.

Want more mopar parts? Crack open the wallet and start spending. The economy is rocking. Turn off the TV, and look around instead. EVERYONE I know in real business is overrun with no end in site.

Chevy is abundant for one reason only. People spent money for products offered. The old mopar saying, mostly old parts and rust is why stuff is limited.

Too bad since the fastest, and quickest drag cars on the planet are based on mopar tech. Notice there is no shortage of Brads, TFX, and the like? Money in parts out.

Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: dthemi] #1914368
09/17/15 11:53 AM
09/17/15 11:53 AM
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Roughbird72 Offline
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Originally Posted By dthemi


Chevy is abundant for one reason only. People spent money for products offered. The old mopar saying, mostly old parts and rust is why stuff is limited.


Chevrolet/GM have always had a larger share of the automobile market in the U.S. than Ford or Chrysler. Having the numbers of people willing to buy products is a plus, can't argue with the economics of it. The restoration market is the only place i see an abundance of parts for older Mopars.

Last edited by bubby440; 09/17/15 02:18 PM.

72 Plymouth Roadrunner 11.08@123.25
Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: camastomcat] #1914387
09/17/15 12:39 PM
09/17/15 12:39 PM
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
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Actually, when making billet blocks it doesn't cost hardly anymore to make any block. The problem is we don't have a leader. If we did he would be offering B/RB/Hemi billet blocks, really ready to assemble, to ship this afternoon (in one of the stocking configurations) for $5,995. I would love to do it. I have the money, the shop and the inclination, like one of my heros, Keith Black. The problem is I am too old, too busy and never learned CNC machining like I should have. If I had a set of prints and a knowledgeable man to train me you would have blocks.


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: dthemi] #1914404
09/17/15 01:03 PM
09/17/15 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted By dthemi


Too bad since the fastest, and quickest drag cars on the planet are based on mopar tech.



And been flogging the 'competition' for 50+ years...

Imagine what would be if the 'R&D' was a level playing field...

Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: rickseeman] #1914585
09/17/15 07:17 PM
09/17/15 07:17 PM
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Arkansas
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Adrielp Offline
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Originally Posted By rickseeman
Actually, when making billet blocks it doesn't cost hardly anymore to make any block. The problem is we don't have a leader. If we did he would be offering B/RB/Hemi billet blocks, really ready to assemble, to ship this afternoon (in one of the stocking configurations) for $5,995. I would love to do it. I have the money, the shop and the inclination, like one of my heros, Keith Black. The problem is I am too old, too busy and never learned CNC machining like I should have. If I had a set of prints and a knowledgeable man to train me you would have blocks.


If you find the drawings, I'd donate my time to model the block in CAD. Then after that, we just need someone willing to write the CNC programming for it.


Adriel Paradise
Substation Design Engineer III
Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: Adrielp] #1914695
09/17/15 09:35 PM
09/17/15 09:35 PM
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So where is the Bill Mitchell Products aluminum block in all of this? World doesn't make cast iron blocks because Chrysler took back the casting stuff, but I understood that Bill Mitchell kept the aluminum engine tooling. It's on his website right now, Hemi or 440, stock bore or 4.49. $5500 list.

Last year I saw the aluminum blocks advertised by a speed shop in Aurora CO, on Craigslist. They didn't seem to have any problem getting them then.....Ray Barton has a BMP Hemi block on his site.

R.

Last edited by dogdays; 09/17/15 09:36 PM.
Re: It's been 2 years since aftermarket Mopar blocks available [Re: dogdays] #1914731
09/17/15 11:00 PM
09/17/15 11:00 PM
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Duloc
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The Shadow Offline
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Duloc
Good luck in getting a mitchell/world block

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