BB versus SB
#188992
01/09/09 11:42 PM
01/09/09 11:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
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Since this got started on another post,I thought "why not" What are some of the reasons you guys run what you run? Big block=almost unlimited cubic inch potential,easier to get higher flowing heads,etc. Small block=more compact,easier to fit in smaller engine bays,lighter,etc. By the way ,to Vic,I am nowhere near jumping ship on my big block. I've yet to see a good reason. (how's that?)
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: Dunnuck Racing]
#188993
01/09/09 11:46 PM
01/09/09 11:46 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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LOL, I see Don pulled your chain a little I like my little small block but I have been building a big block(trying) for a couple of years... just to help keep the front end down
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: Dunnuck Racing]
#188995
01/09/09 11:55 PM
01/09/09 11:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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Well for me it is real easy. One reason is my budget limits me to very mild builds so I wanted the extra torque of the bigblock for my 63 B-body. And I like the original type of look and we all know a smallblock dont look like a Max Wedge. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 01/09/09 11:56 PM.
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: 383man]
#188996
01/10/09 12:12 AM
01/10/09 12:12 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,090 north cakalaky
instigator
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,090
north cakalaky
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Room for my cubic inch equalizers!
65 Barracuda All aluminum Indy HEMI with some boost! COMING TO A TRACK NEAR YOU!
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: instigator]
#188998
01/10/09 12:23 AM
01/10/09 12:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266 Renton Washington
Triple Threat
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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Engine bay fit, ground clearance, lighter weight, just a plain better set up for a mild street car.
Big block A bodies are cool too, but once you get everything crammed in the engine bay, the headers hang low and they usually don't make that great of street cars.
-Dustin 67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi 68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: SKR8PN]
#189001
01/10/09 12:31 AM
01/10/09 12:31 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 34,871 S.E. South Dakota !
bigdad
Still Posting A Lot
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Still Posting A Lot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 34,871
S.E. South Dakota !
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To cook Pork roast pre-heat oven @ 400 degrees , when timer goes off turn oven down to 275 and put roast in uncovered season well ( I like natures seasoning made by Morton) When heat gets down to 275 cover roast and cook it for about 25 minutes per lb when there is 1 hours 20 minutes left , toss on some equal sized potatoes and leave cover on, remove roaster and let sit for about 20 minutes , its perfect every time side dish of favorite vegtable is your choice
The lips of fools bring them strife, and their mouths invite a beating.Proverbs 18:6
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: SKR8PN]
#189002
01/10/09 12:34 AM
01/10/09 12:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266 Renton Washington
Triple Threat
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
Engine bay fit, ground clearance, lighter weight, just a plain better set up for a mild street car.
Big block A bodies are cool too, but once you get everything crammed in the engine bay, the headers hang low and they usually don't make that great of street cars.
BS.......that is why GOD invented the Sawsall and the Plasma cutter.
My car gets driven year round, and I live in Seattle where it rains 260 days a year. When's the last time that trailer queen of yours got driven in the rain?
-Dustin 67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi 68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: SKR8PN]
#189009
01/10/09 01:11 AM
01/10/09 01:11 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 34,871 S.E. South Dakota !
bigdad
Still Posting A Lot
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Still Posting A Lot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 34,871
S.E. South Dakota !
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As told to me , bigger the better the tighter the sweater
The lips of fools bring them strife, and their mouths invite a beating.Proverbs 18:6
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: bigdad]
#189010
01/10/09 01:27 AM
01/10/09 01:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266 Renton Washington
Triple Threat
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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You silly old men trying to compensate for something? with names like "bigdad" seems like you have the need to try and represent something you might have lost since your youth .... The car even has a back seat that gets used. And even with 5 people, the car never scraped header or anything else. Gotta love those little blocks. and working wipers! This was on the way home from the race track after our points race got rained out. I will say, even if the car was race only, with limited street use such as your cars, I would still run a small block just so when I do beat up on ya, It would feel that much better!!!!!
-Dustin 67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi 68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: Dunnuck Racing]
#189011
01/10/09 01:33 AM
01/10/09 01:33 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere
S/ST 3040
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
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Quote:
What are some of the reasons you guys run what you run?
Like most irrational, mentally unstable, small block Mopar guys, I don't have any good reasons......and because of the traits previously stated, I don't need any. How's that?
Seriously, I'm just a small block guy. I'd be an idiot to say they are better in an all out race engine but, I just don't have any intrest in big blocks. In fact, I wouldn't trade a 340 for five 440s but, that's just me.
I think it's the challenge.
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: Triple Threat]
#189012
01/10/09 01:36 AM
01/10/09 01:36 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 852 Brisbane Australia
572B1
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 852
Brisbane Australia
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Quote:
You silly old men trying to compensate for something? with names like "bigdad" seems like you have the need to try and represent something you might have lost since your youth ....
The car even has a back seat that gets used. And even with 5 people, the car never scraped header or anything else. Gotta love those little blocks.
and working wipers! This was on the way home from the race track after our points race got rained out.
I will say, even if the car was race only, with limited street use such as your cars, I would still run a small block just so when I do beat up on ya, It would feel that much better!!!!!
Look at his speedo guys.He has to do 75 mph in the rain so it feels like a big block.
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: 572B1]
#189014
01/10/09 01:45 AM
01/10/09 01:45 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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There is no substitute for cubic inches..This rule of thumb works on anything you are doing..
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: bigdad]
#189015
01/10/09 01:46 AM
01/10/09 01:46 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 852 Brisbane Australia
572B1
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 852
Brisbane Australia
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Quote:
WEEEEE !!!
12.40's thats zinging !!!!
We did that a very long time ago and much faster on much less tire
why did you single me out ? I only gave a recipe for a pork roast ?
Have fun with your friends , stay safe ..Youth goes by oh so fast ..
Big dad your the man.I havn't laughed that hard in a long time .I have tears in my eyes.
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Re: BB versus SB
#189017
01/10/09 02:01 AM
01/10/09 02:01 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,293 Northeast, Alpine, NY
9 Sec Phill
On a road near you
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On a road near you
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,293
Northeast, Alpine, NY
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Quote:
There is no substitute for cubic inches..This rule of thumb works on anything you are doing..
Unless your working on your girlfriend!
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: bigdad]
#189019
01/10/09 02:07 AM
01/10/09 02:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266 Renton Washington
Triple Threat
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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Bigdad, Your just that lucky, you posted above me so I figured I needed to give you a hard time. Besides, your old I'm young, I'm beautiful, you scare children , you have a big block, I have a small block. You were the perfect target 12.40's, I could make the car faster, but I'm busy putting myself through college and working to pay the bills. Making the car faster can wait 'til after I graduate this spring. Besides, Its a bracket car on an 8" tire. Never built the car to impress anyone anyways. Now, time for me to run, some old man like you let his daughter go to college hundreds of miles from home and they are on the loose . Time to go wrangle them up and teach them a lesson...
-Dustin 67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi 68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: bigdad]
#189020
01/10/09 02:07 AM
01/10/09 02:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,293 Northeast, Alpine, NY
9 Sec Phill
On a road near you
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On a road near you
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,293
Northeast, Alpine, NY
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
There is no substitute for cubic inches..This rule of thumb works on anything you are doing..
Unless your working on your girlfriend!
Ahhh, no .. they prefer the big cubes !
They say big is best, but light is right! Im with the later....
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: Triple Threat]
#189021
01/10/09 02:56 AM
01/10/09 02:56 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 34,871 S.E. South Dakota !
bigdad
Still Posting A Lot
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Still Posting A Lot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 34,871
S.E. South Dakota !
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Quote:
Bigdad, Your just that lucky, you posted above me so I figured I needed to give you a hard time. Besides, your old I'm young, I'm beautiful, you scare children , you have a big block, I have a small block. You were the perfect target
12.40's, I could make the car faster, but I'm busy putting myself through college and working to pay the bills. Making the car faster can wait 'til after I graduate this spring. Besides, Its a bracket car on an 8" tire. Never built the car to impress anyone anyways.
Now, time for me to run, some old man like you let his daughter go to college hundreds of miles from home and they are on the loose . Time to go wrangle them up and teach them a lesson...
You have yourself a good time , trust me you are not the first group of goofs runnning some leg .
Last edited by bigdad; 01/10/09 01:20 PM.
The lips of fools bring them strife, and their mouths invite a beating.Proverbs 18:6
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: bigdad]
#189022
01/10/09 04:11 AM
01/10/09 04:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Bigdad, Your just that lucky, you posted above me so I figured I needed to give you a hard time. Besides, your old I'm young, I'm beautiful, you scare children , you have a big block, I have a small block. You were the perfect target
12.40's, I could make the car faster, but I'm busy putting myself through college and working to pay the bills. Making the car faster can wait 'til after I graduate this spring. Besides, Its a bracket car on an 8" tire. Never built the car to impress anyone anyways.
Now, time for me to run, some old man like you let his daughter go to college hundreds of miles from home and they are on the loose . Time to go wrangle them up and teach them a lesson...
You have yourself a good time , trust me you are not the first group of goofs runnning some leg .
Been there and done that and rocked it as hard as you if not more ..You think you are the first guy to catch a stray .. Tigger please . Just make it home in one piece brother
BigDad ,for being young pups they are funny and they are just having some fun. I like thier sense of humor . And yours as well
I like the phrase { Your old ,I'm young,] I'm beautiful, you scare children!
Ive seen your pics ,you scare me
For the record, I love both big block and small blocks. And I wont ever {scare children} but I will put a whooping on some young pups, at the track if need be
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Post deleted by Defbob
[Re: Sport440]
#189023
01/10/09 04:20 AM
01/10/09 04:20 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: BB versus SB
#189024
01/10/09 05:26 AM
01/10/09 05:26 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Engines are like boxers. The bigger they are............................ ............................................... The harder they hit!!
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: Triple Threat]
#189025
01/10/09 05:42 AM
01/10/09 05:42 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,384 Worst Weather USA
493_DART
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,384
Worst Weather USA
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Quote:
You silly old men trying to compensate for something? with names like "bigdad" seems like you have the need to try and represent something you might have lost since your youth ....
The car even has a back seat that gets used. And even with 5 people, the car never scraped header or anything else. Gotta love those little blocks.
and working wipers! This was on the way home from the race track after our points race got rained out.
I will say, even if the car was race only, with limited street use such as your cars, I would still run a small block just so when I do beat up on ya, It would feel that much better!!!!!
your best is a 12.43 ?
who ya gonna "beat up" on ?
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: SKR8PN]
#189028
01/10/09 09:51 AM
01/10/09 09:51 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
LOT'S lighter and MORE CUBIC INCHES than a small block!!
You do know that small blocks have alum blocks also, which makes them liker than a alum BB
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: 9 Sec Phill]
#189030
01/10/09 10:08 AM
01/10/09 10:08 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
There is no substitute for cubic inches..This rule of thumb works on anything you are doing..
Unless your working on your girlfriend!
Especially if you are working on the girl friend...
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Re: BB versus SB
#189032
01/10/09 10:21 AM
01/10/09 10:21 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: Dragula]
#189034
01/10/09 11:37 AM
01/10/09 11:37 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,927 Seaford, Va
Kindafast
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,927
Seaford, Va
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My being a poorboy and not being able to buy the high dollar cranks,blocks and such I found myself blowing the bottom ends out of many big blocks. Small blocks seem to turn up pretty good and stay together. Maybe not make as much power but I can play another day .
6.50 @105.26
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Re: BB versus SB
#189035
01/10/09 11:39 AM
01/10/09 11:39 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
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Quote:
12.43??? There was a guy with a Dodge pickup with ladder rack, tool boxes and ladder on the rack at the Mopar Nats a couple years ago that was in the 11's...
HMMMMM,My mini motorhome has a 360 with a mild cam,headers,etc. Maybe I should race it in our street class.I wouldn't have to worry about spinning the tires off the line..............
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: bigdad]
#189036
01/10/09 12:25 PM
01/10/09 12:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,339 somwhere
smokinwoody
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,339
somwhere
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
There is no substitute for cubic inches..This rule of thumb works on anything you are doing..
Unless your working on your girlfriend!
Ahhh, no .. they prefer the big cubes !
my wife loves BIG CUBIC INCHES...499 to be exact..
aint no small block in her life...
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: Triple Threat]
#189041
01/10/09 02:42 PM
01/10/09 02:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
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Quote:
You guys sure got some jokes, I'd willingly line up next to any of you in a bracket race. Then we shall see who laughs at the 12 second car then.
Ow,everyone's just having fun. My wife was second in points her first year of racing with a 12 second small block. Now it is stroked to 421 inches and makes more tourqe than my 440.Maybe the best answer is a small block that thinks it is a big block!
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: RonP]
#189047
01/10/09 03:53 PM
01/10/09 03:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141 junction city oregon
viperblue72
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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I believe I have the best reason for building a small block! I built my 408 small block before the 440 stuff got cheap. There were no edelbrock heads and no 440source when I built it. Would of cost a fortune back then to build a 440. So now that I have a 408, I can't complain. It's a 10 second pump gas motor through the mufflers, power steering, brakes and it was my daily driver for several months. Nowadays I think it would be better to build a big block for the price.
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: viperblue72]
#189048
01/10/09 03:59 PM
01/10/09 03:59 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH
blownzoom440
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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Quote:
I believe I have the best reason for building a small block!
I built my 408 small block before the 440 stuff got cheap. There were no edelbrock heads and no 440source when I built it. Would of cost a fortune back then to build a 440. So now that I have a 408, I can't complain. It's a 10 second pump gas motor through the mufflers, power steering, brakes and it was my daily driver for several months. Nowadays I think it would be better to build a big block for the price.
or a big block with boost!
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: dthemi]
#189051
01/10/09 05:40 PM
01/10/09 05:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266 Renton Washington
Triple Threat
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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Darren, I thought us Washington folk were supposed to stick together!
-Dustin 67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi 68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: dthemi]
#189055
01/10/09 06:41 PM
01/10/09 06:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266 Renton Washington
Triple Threat
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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It always rains, just gotta hope its dry on race day. Keep an eye on the forecast when it gets closer and hope for the best.
-Dustin 67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi 68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: Triple Threat]
#189057
01/11/09 10:15 PM
01/11/09 10:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,886 Bowling Green KY / Nashville, ...
300by500
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,886
Bowling Green KY / Nashville, ...
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Quote:
I will say, even if the car was race only, with limited street use such as your cars, I would still run a small block just so when I do beat up on ya, It would feel that much better!!!!!
If it'll run EIGHT SECONDS with a small block, I'm sure SKR8PN would ! But how likely is that?
Small blocks are easier to use in a milder-performance build. They're cheaper, plentiful, and leave more room under the hood. If that's what you are after, there is nothing wrong with them...but I doubt that the SS/A or Pro Stock guys will be trying to compete using one.
All things equal, there is really no argument that more cubic inches = more HP and torque.
However, there are certain applications where small-displacement engines are more desirable:
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: 300by500]
#189058
01/11/09 10:18 PM
01/11/09 10:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
All things equal, there is really no argument that more cubic inches = more HP and torque.
However, there are certain applications where small-displacement engines are more desirable:
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Re: BB versus SB
#189059
01/11/09 10:22 PM
01/11/09 10:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,886 Bowling Green KY / Nashville, ...
300by500
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,886
Bowling Green KY / Nashville, ...
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Quote:
12.43??? There was a guy with a Dodge pickup with ladder rack, tool boxes and ladder on the rack at the Mopar Nats a couple years ago that was in the 11's...
Had nitrous bottles in the tool box, that truck was cool!
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: 300by500]
#189060
01/12/09 10:03 AM
01/12/09 10:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,028 The Grand State of Confusion-O...
SKR8PN
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,028
The Grand State of Confusion-O...
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Quote:
Quote:
I will say, even if the car was race only, with limited street use such as your cars, I would still run a small block just so when I do beat up on ya, It would feel that much better!!!!!
If it'll run EIGHT SECONDS with a small block, I'm sure SKR8PN would ! But how likely is that?
Small blocks are easier to use in a milder-performance build. They're cheaper, plentiful, and leave more room under the hood. If that's what you are after, there is nothing wrong with them...but I doubt that the SS/A or Pro Stock guys will be trying to compete using one.
All things equal, there is really no argument that more cubic inches = more HP and torque.
However, there are certain applications where small-displacement engines are more desirable:
ROTFLMAO!!! Brion I owe you a for that one!!
Karma has no menu. You get served what you deserve.
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: JD Dart]
#189065
01/15/10 12:32 AM
01/15/10 12:32 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,517 pacific northwest
Stroker Scamp
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,517
pacific northwest
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ive always had a small block, i cant tune worth a darn, nor have the time to really see what this motor can do, stroked smallblock with eddy heads, oh btw read the sig
footbrake N/A SB 408 Scamp 10.10 @ 132 street/strip 73 Duster 340 street strip 12.79 @ 105
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: SKR8PN]
#189069
01/15/10 01:54 PM
01/15/10 01:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165 Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
There is NO replacement for DISPLACEMENT.
The bigger the better = the FASTER every time.
Depends on weight breaks, if any, and a few other things. In our class(Outlaw 10.5) we race a Procharged SB. There are cars in our class with N/A 920 CI motors and others with 5 stages and almost 900 cubes. We have the ET record. A twin turbo BB has the speed record.
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#189072
01/15/10 06:39 PM
01/15/10 06:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,872 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,872
Weddington, N.C.
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You cannot deny that the small block is inherently a more efficient engine...the LA heads were designed several years later and feature angled Plugs, a better valve angle and valve centers that open on the bore centers. It also features a raised cam which allows for large strokes and reduced cam oil windage. The port cross section of a 340 is roughly only 12% smaller than that of a 440, a motor that is 25% larger. It's "weaknesses" are few, the 4 bolt per cylinder head clamping and it's akward 59 degree lifter angle causes the pushrod to move in an arc so it's inherently less stable at high RPM. That said, in terms of efficiency, if you pick any reasonable horsepower per cubic inch criteria up to about 1.35hp/cube the smallblock typically wins hands down, ex: it's easier to produce 340 hp from a 340 than it is to make 383hp from a 383. When we move to the stroker realm and we include AFFORDABLE upgraded LARGE PORT heads, the Big Block (by virtue of the early Ramchargers skunk works developing the Max wedge) the big block clearly pulls away. The small block Mopar is years if not DECADES behind the Chevy and Ford market (both have heads in the 380-400cfm range) in terms of affordable bolt-on race ready heads, the magnum opens up the geometry by getting away from the rocker shaft, the POTENTIAL is there but it is still untapped. my i don't really like small block Stroker RACE motors, for any reasonable money investment there is a diminishing Hp/cube return once you get up around 390 or so cubes, when the piston speed goes up and the rod ratio goes down you really need a surplus of port....Fords with the multitude of Windsor/cleveland and especially the CHI Hybrid heads have the advantage above this CID range...And even still I prefer to build all my small (stock)block strokers as moderate RPM torque motors, basically lightweight replacements for OEM big blocks which is the task they fill the best and most economically. PISTON speed and ring drag go up astronomically above the torque peak and this acts like a brake as far as the flywheel is concerned, that's why (and as I tried to explain in another post) even though the HP goes up past the torque peak, the RATE OF ACCELERATION of the crank begins at that point to slow. Keeping the torque peak in the big fat middle and keeping the peak HP RPM in the moderate piston speed range is really the most EFFICIENT (in terms of longevity and heat) use of a smallblock (or bigblock) stroker, just gear and cam accordingly. A 3.79" motor with the same heads and valvetrain that can support the higher RPM required can typically make right at the same power as a 4 incher....less piston speed = less frictional HP drag, there's a reason 500" Pro Stokers run huge bores and short strokes and can make nearly as much power as the 800" IHRA motors... All out race blocks and W9 heads are really in another $$$ league, the power is there...but the HP per $$ spent really goes up tremendously.
Last edited by Streetwize; 01/15/10 06:54 PM.
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: 67HEMI]
#189076
01/16/10 11:31 AM
01/16/10 11:31 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 255 michigan
sturmenater
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 255
michigan
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Quote:
The reason I like big block power is the distributor is easier to get to
thats especialy nice if you have a big belly like mine plus there just cheaper to get decent power out of. and torque on demand
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: sturmenater]
#189078
01/16/10 12:09 PM
01/16/10 12:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,918 Akron, Ohio
ProSport
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,918
Akron, Ohio
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I like them both. I was a 340 guy my whole life until 9 years ago when I tried my first mild big block and went 1.5 seconds quicker than I'd ever gone, and it was cheap! I've only owned 2 big blocks, both were dirt cheap due to finding good deals and both went 9.80's at 136 MPH in street trim. So my reason for a big block is cost, I'd have 3 times the money in a small block to run these numbers with pump gas or a light mix of race gas. And I will admit that it sucks working on a big block a-body. A big dollar stroker small block could run the same numbers or better and be easy to work on.
1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: ProSport]
#189080
01/16/10 12:34 PM
01/16/10 12:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 982 western pennsylvania
b1dartsport
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 982
western pennsylvania
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Quote:
I like them both. I was a 340 guy my whole life until 9 years ago when I tried my first mild big block and went 1.5 seconds quicker than I'd ever gone, and it was cheap! I've only owned 2 big blocks, both were dirt cheap due to finding good deals and both went 9.80's at 136 MPH in street trim. So my reason for a big block is cost, I'd have 3 times the money in a small block to run these numbers with pump gas or a light mix of race gas. And I will admit that it sucks working on a big block a-body. A big dollar stroker small block could run the same numbers or better and be easy to work on.
I have a 73 dart sport pump gas 408 which I don't really beleive is a high buck car. My car went 9.87 136 the first time out on a mix of 93 & 100. I have a few friends with big block strokers,some with more money invested in them than mine that hav'nt been out of the 10s yet. I drive my car on the street,none of them do. Not knocking big blocks, I like all Mopars,Just my experience.
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: Sport440]
#189081
01/16/10 01:48 PM
01/16/10 01:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,041 Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,041
Shelby Twp. Mi
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Quote:
BigDad ,for being young pups they are funny and they are just having some fun. I like thier sense of humor . And yours as well
I like the phrase { Your old ,I'm young,] I'm beautiful, you scare children!
Thank God someone was given the license to have fun around here. And kudos to Sport for pointing it out.
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: emarine01]
#189083
01/16/10 04:46 PM
01/16/10 04:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,918 Akron, Ohio
ProSport
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,918
Akron, Ohio
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Quote:
I have a 73 dart sport pump gas 408 which I don't really beleive is a high buck car. My car went 9.87 136 the first time out on a mix of 93 & 100. I have a few friends with big block strokers,some with more money invested in them than mine that hav'nt been out of the 10s yet. I drive my car on the street,none of them do. Not knocking big blocks, I like all Mopars,Just my experience.
What does your car weigh? Can you give us a rundown of your combo? Very impressive!
1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: ProSport]
#189084
01/16/10 09:08 PM
01/16/10 09:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 982 western pennsylvania
b1dartsport
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 982
western pennsylvania
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The car weighs 3100# Resto block,callies 4" crank,h beams,JE flatops,zero deck 11.4 CR. It has an off the shelf crane solid roller 260/266 @.50 .420 lobe,1.6 T&d rockers. Indy 360-2s 230 cc which I got from Jack Moore for $1875,BG racing set up the heads & valve job. Indy intake which I gasket matched & ported myself,4150 1050 race demon. The car has cal-traks, cut down Truck dana with spool & strange axles (4.56),904 built by Bob George, 8" A-1 5200 stall converter. I bought the car for $4,000 rolling with an 8 pt roll bar,digital 6 & all gauges and I did do a lot of waiting & scrounging for parts. I know I don't have more than $13,500 in the whole car. Its not the nicest car (Its no where as nice as your car Bob) but its not bad,and it sure suprised me with how fast it is. I think most of the guys on this board could duplicate it easily.
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Re: BB versus SB
[Re: DakFink]
#189087
01/17/10 11:10 AM
01/17/10 11:10 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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This arguement never has any substance. It is mostly people who build engines over the telephone that talk about the cost comparison.
I had an ole truck blew the 360 up. Put an equal 440 in it used the same thermoquad carb. Yes, the BB was king but the truck weight 5,300#.
I raced what every looser wanted to say was a high dollar small block in KOS. I had less money in my engine than any big block racer in KOS. There was only one Big Block in KOS I didn't beat in KOS with this engine. Mike Robbins he had the same displacement in a BB. He treed me both times and the margin of victory was in the thousandts. I later broke his record after he sold his car. I have a large respect for their combo and their driving and tuning capabilities.
I run a shorter stroke engine now that unfortuneately the cost ran a little higher but still less than most BB's built with the same intent. IMO it runs pretty sorry. But, I out MPH the big blocks in the same realm of competition. A NA SB spinner is harder to find the right combo on converter and gear ratio to make the car work and right now I am in left feild.
Alluminum blocks can be bought for SB and they have many more advantages than the ones offered for BB's. Last time I checked the price was within a few $100. I wouldn't have one as I don't feel I can give up the strength in the bores and sacrifice HP. With a BB I would defineately run an alluminum block. Need to make up for the extra 200# somewhere. But, A big block would be my choice in a no penalty for displacement class.
You see no small blocks in the SSAA classes because the heads you would need to run are illegal. I think Hemis are king and should be in that class.
I like small blocks in my car. Of course a 655" predator headed engine would be fine too.
It just depends on what you are doing and what the rules are.
And the price arguement fails. A year ago you could by used P7R5 engines with all the latest trick parts very cheap. Before that you could by a W9 R3 craftsman truck engine as cheap as $5,000. Give Indy a call and see how far you would get with that money building a BB and then watch that small block wear you out.
Again I am not wanting to take sides and if you like running your BB Mopar great. If the small block is your choice that kool to. But, This daily BS arguement about money. The reason your phone call tells you a small block cost to much is because you are talking to a crook that wants to screw you over. If these guys would work a volume approach like many of the successfull BB mopar engine builders the results would be a lot different.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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