Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: blownEFI]
#1868827
07/12/15 02:27 PM
07/12/15 02:27 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163 Florida
Spartan040
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Florida
|
There is a lot of stuff required to "piece together" your own custom efi system, which is exactly why the pre-built kit systems are so popular because they save you all that trouble. Fortunately there is a lot of info on the web to help you, just do some searches like "how to convert to efi" and you will find many articles such as these: Fuel Injection Conversion Part 1 Fuel Injection Conversion Part 2 Fuel Injection Conversion Part 3 I didn't read those particular articles but I'm just listing them as examples of what you can find when you search. There are many others, you just have to do some searches and you will find the info is out there. Thanks very much, I'll check them out. Really the only thing I want to change on the Edelbrock is the controller and the injectors, but it'd be cheaper to do it myself.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1869007
07/12/15 08:17 PM
07/12/15 08:17 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163 Florida
Spartan040
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Florida
|
What size injectors are you going to use? I'm not sure which size I should use, my horsepower goal is 600-700. I was thinking 52 or 60 lb/hour?
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Spartan040]
#1869071
07/12/15 10:14 PM
07/12/15 10:14 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305 5th and plum
redmist
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305
5th and plum
|
I would suggest these injectors. they are $41 each on Rock Auto I used them on my MS3X 440. They are 60lb-Hr out of the 2013 Ford Mustang Cobra. I then purchased hats to make them full length to fit on my Edelbrock ProFlo-XT Manifold! Super race car lookin! Here is a link to the hats: http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/categor...-injectors.html
Last edited by redmist; 07/12/15 10:22 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: redmist]
#1869123
07/12/15 11:22 PM
07/12/15 11:22 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163 Florida
Spartan040
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Florida
|
I would suggest these injectors. they are $41 each on Rock Auto I used them on my MS3X 440. They are 60lb-Hr out of the 2013 Ford Mustang Cobra. I then purchased hats to make them full length to fit on my Edelbrock ProFlo-XT Manifold! Super race car lookin! Here is a link to the hats: http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/categor...-injectors.html Ooooh, me like! Thanks. There are several different injectors to choose from, are those the Airtex/Wells 4G2275? There are also Bosch injectors available, which is the best? Are they all 60 lb/hour?
Last edited by Spartan040; 07/12/15 11:39 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Spartan040]
#1869252
07/13/15 08:18 AM
07/13/15 08:18 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 208 Norrland, Sweden
Swedcharger67
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 208
Norrland, Sweden
|
If you want quality injectors I believe Bosch, Siemens etc. would be a safe bet. Myself I'm using 82 lbs Siemens injectors in my 512, but I'm running E85 so I need a little more than on gasoline.
Martin, 67 Charger, 512 cui, E85, MegaSquirt MS3X sequential ignition & injection
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Swedcharger67]
#1869346
07/13/15 11:17 AM
07/13/15 11:17 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163 Florida
Spartan040
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Florida
|
If you want quality injectors I believe Bosch, Siemens etc. would be a safe bet. Myself I'm using 82 lbs Siemens injectors in my 512, but I'm running E85 so I need a little more than on gasoline. I noticed that Edelbrock has injectors that are 60 lb/hour at 43 PSI, and 87 lb/hour at a higher pressure, I'm not sure what. Would those work well? Or should I go with the Bosch mustang injectors?
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Spartan040]
#1869392
07/13/15 01:09 PM
07/13/15 01:09 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890 North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
|
Edelbrock, Holley, Fast, etc do NOT build their own injectors. They simply buy them from Bosch, Siemens, etc. So it doesn't matter where you buy the injectors.
As far as choosing your injections, just size them to your max HP you can make. Figure it a .5 BSFC and figure a 70% duty cycle at max.
I personally wouldn't use the Ford injector or any factory injector for that matter.........the simple reason is the connector. If you use a standard aftermarket injector, Bosch, Siemens, etc, the connectors will match your harness. The less you have to modify the harness you buy, the better off you will be. Plus I don't care for those hats on the top. Why add an extra place to have a leak.
As for which ECU to choose..........they mostly do the same thing and that is what YOU TELL them to do. So look at some software and see what YOU are most comfortable with. I have personally tuned Holley, Edelbrock, FAST, BS3, Haltech, Fuel-Tech, Motec and a couple others. Of that list, the Edelbrock would be my LAST choice and I think the Holley is the most user friendly, but others will like different ones
Monte
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1869475
07/13/15 03:09 PM
07/13/15 03:09 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163 Florida
Spartan040
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Florida
|
Edelbrock, Holley, Fast, etc do NOT build their own injectors. They simply buy them from Bosch, Siemens, etc. So it doesn't matter where you buy the injectors.
As far as choosing your injections, just size them to your max HP you can make. Figure it a .5 BSFC and figure a 70% duty cycle at max.
I personally wouldn't use the Ford injector or any factory injector for that matter.........the simple reason is the connector. If you use a standard aftermarket injector, Bosch, Siemens, etc, the connectors will match your harness. The less you have to modify the harness you buy, the better off you will be. Plus I don't care for those hats on the top. Why add an extra place to have a leak.
As for which ECU to choose..........they mostly do the same thing and that is what YOU TELL them to do. So look at some software and see what YOU are most comfortable with. I have personally tuned Holley, Edelbrock, FAST, BS3, Haltech, Fuel-Tech, Motec and a couple others. Of that list, the Edelbrock would be my LAST choice and I think the Holley is the most user friendly, but others will like different ones
Monte I think I'll go with the Siemens that Edelbrock sells then. Any suggestions for a harness for the Pro Flo XT system? As for the ECU, I think so far I like either the Megasquirt 3 Pro and the Holley system. Whichever one is the easiest to use, is compatible with an E85 sensor, has a self-learning and tuning feature.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: FastmOp]
#1869487
07/13/15 03:47 PM
07/13/15 03:47 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163 Florida
Spartan040
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Florida
|
I think you will be happy with either.
You will need to buy a harness at the same time you get the ECU. Most people get the universal but you can build one from scratch.
Make sure you get the wide band 02 and harness. Or call Monty and give him your specs and he can hook u up. Megasquirt then. I think I'll probably buy a universal harness too, just seems easier. Oh, and I was wondering, is the Pro Flo XT a sequential injector system? Or is it bank fire? If its sequential I was told I need cam and crank sensors, where would I find those?
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1869492
07/13/15 03:55 PM
07/13/15 03:55 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305 5th and plum
redmist
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305
5th and plum
|
Edelbrock, Holley, Fast, etc do NOT build their own injectors. They simply buy them from Bosch, Siemens, etc. So it doesn't matter where you buy the injectors.
As far as choosing your injections, just size them to your max HP you can make. Figure it a .5 BSFC and figure a 70% duty cycle at max.
I personally wouldn't use the Ford injector or any factory injector for that matter.........the simple reason is the connector. If you use a standard aftermarket injector, Bosch, Siemens, etc, the connectors will match your harness. The less you have to modify the harness you buy, the better off you will be. Plus I don't care for those hats on the top. Why add an extra place to have a leak.
As for which ECU to choose..........they mostly do the same thing and that is what YOU TELL them to do. So look at some software and see what YOU are most comfortable with. I have personally tuned Holley, Edelbrock, FAST, BS3, Haltech, Fuel-Tech, Motec and a couple others. Of that list, the Edelbrock would be my LAST choice and I think the Holley is the most user friendly, but others will like different ones
Monte What???
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: redmist]
#1869579
07/13/15 06:13 PM
07/13/15 06:13 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890 North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
|
Edelbrock, Holley, Fast, etc do NOT build their own injectors. They simply buy them from Bosch, Siemens, etc. So it doesn't matter where you buy the injectors.
As far as choosing your injections, just size them to your max HP you can make. Figure it a .5 BSFC and figure a 70% duty cycle at max.
I personally wouldn't use the Ford injector or any factory injector for that matter.........the simple reason is the connector. If you use a standard aftermarket injector, Bosch, Siemens, etc, the connectors will match your harness. The less you have to modify the harness you buy, the better off you will be. Plus I don't care for those hats on the top. Why add an extra place to have a leak.
As for which ECU to choose..........they mostly do the same thing and that is what YOU TELL them to do. So look at some software and see what YOU are most comfortable with. I have personally tuned Holley, Edelbrock, FAST, BS3, Haltech, Fuel-Tech, Motec and a couple others. Of that list, the Edelbrock would be my LAST choice and I think the Holley is the most user friendly, but others will like different ones
Monte What??? Where is the confusion? You buy an aftermarket generic harness, it will NOT have connectors that fit those Ford injector plugs, unless the company offers that in an injector harness. Some do, some don't. And are those injectors low or high impedance. Does the ECU you are interested in drive either? Again, some do, some don't. To the OP........it is pretty obvious that you are not SURE what you need. I suggest you contact somebody such as myself or Mopar Rich who does this stuff a LOT and let them put you a package together that will WORK. For the most part, users are going to suggest what THEY use. That may be good and it may not. This is SIMPLE stuff really. You pick an ECU and harness that you want to use and go with that. The rest of the ancillary pieces don't really matter. We/Holley for example, have our boxes configured to work with both GM and Ford factory TPS, coolant, IAC, IAT, etc sensors. Some may not and that requires custom configuration or their specific sensors. Our box also controls the fuel pump, fans, water pump........basically whatever you want it to.......some don't. Ours has a full function data logger........some don't. We offer a full size monitor dash......some don't. Ours has a self learn system......some don't. Ours can control DBW throttle bodies and electronic transmissions.......some don't...........Ours will drive "smart coils" if you want to loose the dist and ignition box.......some don't........Do your research injectors are sized from as low as 20lb/hr to over 500lb/hr.....you buy the injector size you NEED........makes no difference from who Monte
Last edited by Monte_Smith; 07/13/15 06:18 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1869756
07/13/15 09:21 PM
07/13/15 09:21 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163 Florida
Spartan040
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Florida
|
Edelbrock, Holley, Fast, etc do NOT build their own injectors. They simply buy them from Bosch, Siemens, etc. So it doesn't matter where you buy the injectors.
As far as choosing your injections, just size them to your max HP you can make. Figure it a .5 BSFC and figure a 70% duty cycle at max.
I personally wouldn't use the Ford injector or any factory injector for that matter.........the simple reason is the connector. If you use a standard aftermarket injector, Bosch, Siemens, etc, the connectors will match your harness. The less you have to modify the harness you buy, the better off you will be. Plus I don't care for those hats on the top. Why add an extra place to have a leak.
As for which ECU to choose..........they mostly do the same thing and that is what YOU TELL them to do. So look at some software and see what YOU are most comfortable with. I have personally tuned Holley, Edelbrock, FAST, BS3, Haltech, Fuel-Tech, Motec and a couple others. Of that list, the Edelbrock would be my LAST choice and I think the Holley is the most user friendly, but others will like different ones
Monte What??? Where is the confusion? You buy an aftermarket generic harness, it will NOT have connectors that fit those Ford injector plugs, unless the company offers that in an injector harness. Some do, some don't. And are those injectors low or high impedance. Does the ECU you are interested in drive either? Again, some do, some don't. To the OP........it is pretty obvious that you are not SURE what you need. I suggest you contact somebody such as myself or Mopar Rich who does this stuff a LOT and let them put you a package together that will WORK. For the most part, users are going to suggest what THEY use. That may be good and it may not. This is SIMPLE stuff really. You pick an ECU and harness that you want to use and go with that. The rest of the ancillary pieces don't really matter. We/Holley for example, have our boxes configured to work with both GM and Ford factory TPS, coolant, IAC, IAT, etc sensors. Some may not and that requires custom configuration or their specific sensors. Our box also controls the fuel pump, fans, water pump........basically whatever you want it to.......some don't. Ours has a full function data logger........some don't. We offer a full size monitor dash......some don't. Ours has a self learn system......some don't. Ours can control DBW throttle bodies and electronic transmissions.......some don't...........Ours will drive "smart coils" if you want to loose the dist and ignition box.......some don't........Do your research injectors are sized from as low as 20lb/hr to over 500lb/hr.....you buy the injector size you NEED........makes no difference from who Monte Thanks very much. I like the sound of your system, what is it?
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection for 440/512 stroker?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1869800
07/13/15 09:57 PM
07/13/15 09:57 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305 5th and plum
redmist
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305
5th and plum
|
Monte they are standard EV-6/EV-14 injector connectors... They are high Z injectors I found dead time to be .94 MS with my injector drivers. They are also very linear at the base in idle range since they are a factory injector. OP if your harness does not have this connector style, move on in my opinion... If you have to buy a custom Holley style fuel injectors of some sort, run away! You wont be finding those injectors at the local parts store if needed. I built an MS3X setup on my 440, and love it. I'm just trying to suggest easy to find, off the shelf, ultra reliable, inexpensive parts that work for the OP. [img] http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KIOiHGJGuNZ9kwuhZC0j3yT4aZgHEWz0r1brZY-nbnM=w1132-h641-no[/img]
Last edited by redmist; 07/13/15 10:04 PM.
|
|
|
|
|