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Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: cudaman1969] #1858962
06/28/15 04:32 PM
06/28/15 04:32 PM
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cincinnati ohio
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mcat4321 Offline
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Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Two questions, any problems putting the 6.1-6.4 crank in a 5.7 block,maybe cam line up? Next, how or what is used to mate the 904-727 trans to the 5.7? 5.7 is an 2007.

i am pretty sure a 6.4 crank will not fit in an 07, the 07 does not have vvt and a 6.4 crank snout is longer.
i am 100% possitive though a 6.1 is identical to an 07 5.7 except it is a steel crank not cast like a 5.7..

Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: cudaman1969] #1858976
06/28/15 04:46 PM
06/28/15 04:46 PM
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Ontario Canada
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Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Two questions, any problems putting the 6.1-6.4 crank in a 5.7 block,maybe cam line up? Next, how or what is used to mate the 904-727 trans to the 5.7? 5.7 is an 2007.


No problem with 6.1 to a 5.7 block, same crank different material.
6.4 machine the front of the crank to fit in an 03 to 08 5.7 or any 6.1 block. Very simple procedure.
904 to 727 will bolt up. I believe the top hole on both trans is not used.
IIRC you will need a ring gear same as a Chevy. I believe mopar sells them.
Matt

Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: gregsdart] #1859079
06/28/15 07:48 PM
06/28/15 07:48 PM
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Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
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The 5.7 2009+ and 6.4 2011+ are both VVT engines which have the timing set spaced further from block face and use thicker timing covers to accommodate the the VVT setup. All 6.1 cranks will work in ALL engines with 2 caveats,
For use in VVT engines, you need a crank sprocket spacer.
Also 6.1 cranks use a unique to them,4 bolt IIRC, trigger wheel that you need to make sure has the right tooth count for your type of engine management.
To use a VVT crank in a non VVT engine you would have to have it machined to let the crank sprocket seat deeper on the snout.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: gregsdart] #1859091
06/28/15 07:58 PM
06/28/15 07:58 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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You can bolt up the 904/727/518/a500 SB trans by using a 02-08 flex plate and a jeep converter or knock the ring gear off your existing converter. I have not run it but looks like it will all be spaced out the same.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: gregsdart] #1859162
06/28/15 09:40 PM
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72Swinger Offline
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You just get one of these and use a regular ole 727 or 904 converter and trans.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-Performanc...137&vxp=mtr


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: 72Swinger] #1859219
06/28/15 10:24 PM
06/28/15 10:24 PM
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Thanks for info. One thing though, how about the converter hub fitting in the crank?

Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: gregsdart] #1859440
06/29/15 01:53 AM
06/29/15 01:53 AM
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Nebraska
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340Rick on here has already done this, I cant remember him having any issues at all. His car flys too.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: gregsdart] #1859555
06/29/15 11:51 AM
06/29/15 11:51 AM
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If you get a crankshaft for/from a manual transmission engine the pilot bearing (p/n 53009180AB) will have to come out. The parts manual shows a sleeve (p/n 4736283AA) that I suppose is for the torque convertor snout.


StricNine

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Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: StricNine] #1860711
06/30/15 06:27 PM
06/30/15 06:27 PM
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The sleeve has to come out of the crank to fit the large pilot on the 904/727/518 transmissions. Also, you would need to check the converter engagement depth if using the MP conversion flexplate (no ring gear) as it was with mine, there was almost 0 free play so I had to shim the transmission back (used a mid plate and cut off the extra) to allow for converter movement and not kill the thrust bearing or the front pump. The bushing is made out of some pretty hard stuff, took a while to get it out.

converter sleeve.jpg
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: ntstlgl1970] #1860758
06/30/15 07:34 PM
06/30/15 07:34 PM
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Do the dowel pins line up ok? I like the idea of using a mid plate for spacing.

Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: gregsdart] #1860763
06/30/15 07:46 PM
06/30/15 07:46 PM
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I have an 11 an 03 and 2 04 truck and durango engines and none of them have that ring and the converter from a 727 and 904 fits in there just fine, may just be a car thing for the car trans.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: 72Swinger] #1860832
06/30/15 09:25 PM
06/30/15 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted By 72Swinger
You just get one of these and use a regular ole 727 or 904 converter and trans.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-Performanc...137&vxp=mtr


My son bought one of these. I bought a ATI 915685. The ATI is much more robust
http://www.jegs.com/i/ATI/085/915685/10002/-1?parentProductId=



"Just a Bracket car dressed up like a streetcar"
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: HotRodDave] #1860974
07/01/15 12:11 AM
07/01/15 12:11 AM
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I think you are right, the trucks didn't get the NAG-1 *except the jeep SRT8 I think* and the pilot on the NAG converter is pretty small. The rest of the trucks I think had the 545RFE. Maybe that is the reason for no sleeve. The flexplate I got from mancini racing looks just like the ATI in the picture above. The midplate I used measured about .090" the dowels still had enough engagement to line up ok

Last edited by ntstlgl1970; 07/01/15 12:13 AM.
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: ntstlgl1970] #1861281
07/01/15 02:29 PM
07/01/15 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted By ntstlgl1970
I think you are right, the trucks didn't get the NAG-1 *except the jeep SRT8 I think* and the pilot on the NAG converter is pretty small. The rest of the trucks I think had the 545RFE. Maybe that is the reason for no sleeve. The flexplate I got from mancini racing looks just like the ATI in the picture above. The midplate I used measured about .090" the dowels still had enough engagement to line up ok


Sometimes things hit you in the face like steeping on a rake. I can see now why the 727-904 fit the blocks because it was basically the same trans used in the trucks and the Nags in the cars, so simple a cave man should know. Probably the first time Chrysler has done this.

Last edited by cudaman1969; 07/01/15 02:31 PM.
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: ntstlgl1970] #1861393
07/01/15 05:20 PM
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Charleston
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Originally Posted By ntstlgl1970
The sleeve has to come out of the crank to fit the large pilot on the 904/727/518 transmissions. Also, you would need to check the converter engagement depth if using the MP conversion flexplate (no ring gear) as it was with mine, there was almost 0 free play so I had to shim the transmission back (used a mid plate and cut off the extra) to allow for converter movement and not kill the thrust bearing or the front pump. The bushing is made out of some pretty hard stuff, took a while to get it out.


I would suggest a mock up outside the car. I too had to shim my block and trans with one converter but didn't have to with another converter. I didn't bother trying to figure out why this was the case but I have seen a lot of posts where some guys say the needed to shim and other said they didn't


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Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: sixpackgut] #1861468
07/01/15 07:57 PM
07/01/15 07:57 PM
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I had a stock 46rh converter to compare to my aftermarket one, the difference was in the stator drive tube where it met the body of the converter. On mine the drive tube area was flat where it met the body, on the stock converter, the area where the tube met the converter body was about 1/8" "deeper". All other dimensions were the same. I had mocked mine up with just the trans case, front pump and converter on the back of the engine to see if there was any clearance. Glad I did that....

Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: gregsdart] #1862900
07/03/15 04:08 PM
07/03/15 04:08 PM
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Here is a new question:

When putting a Gen III in an older car, with something like MS3 EFI, What gauges can be used and do you wire them to the block, or the EFI and Ignition? Things like oil pressure, voltage, water temp, etc.

Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: gregsdart] #1862949
07/03/15 05:34 PM
07/03/15 05:34 PM
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I have my gauges independent from the EFISOURCE.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: hudsonhornet7x] #1862970
07/03/15 06:28 PM
07/03/15 06:28 PM
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cincinnati ohio
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Originally Posted By hudsonhornet7x
Here is a new question:

When putting a Gen III in an older car, with something like MS3 EFI, What gauges can be used and do you wire them to the block, or the EFI and Ignition? Things like oil pressure, voltage, water temp, etc.

i run my factory 1968 senders in the block
and use factory gauges.
i also monitor everything efi on my cell phone using shadow dash

Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: gregsdart] #1862991
07/03/15 06:55 PM
07/03/15 06:55 PM
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Thanks guys, I am confused by EFI and am trying to learn as much as I can before the engine is in.

One last thing. Would tuning the engine with a magnuson supercharger be harder than N/A?

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