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Best way to limit Wheelstands? #1812632
04/26/15 11:01 PM
04/26/15 11:01 PM
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Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline OP
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I think I've finally got the right converter in the Rocky, it's an 8" A-1 that I bought from MShred) that stalls around 5200 and hits right off the line....but now the wheelies are back.

When I had the 4k stall 9 1/2" and it wheel standed I just started adding some useful weight ( a remote filter and an oil cooler) combined with new OEM shocks and it would then hike the wheels only about 8" and carry them the first 10-12 feet. The new vert launches much harder but the tires dead hook and starts to lift the wheels much harder, with such a short wheelbase it doesn't give you much margin to work with as the angle it comes up is a bit more extreme.

I'm thinking I can extend the rebound snubbers to limit the free travel to give the nose a bit less momentum before it has to lift the unsprung weight of the suspension, does that sound like the best place to start? I'd rather try that before adding weight but I may have to do both.

Here's a short clip which was my first real test hit with the converter and new valvetrain ( springs, pro magnum rockers and MRL lifters)

http://youtu.be/OnZEy3Ij76c

Any advice would be appreciated, I could have easily flipped it over if I wound it out in low, I thought about hitting second ( would have if I had a RMVB instead of a FMVB) but even that can be a crap shoot with this kind of traction.

I thought about adding air pressure to the rear tires but they were already at 18psi, the M/T pro drag radials hook really well.

Thanks

Last edited by Streetwize; 04/27/15 10:18 AM.

WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: Streetwize] #1812649
04/26/15 11:17 PM
04/26/15 11:17 PM
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Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda Offline
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I limited front end travel in my 'Cuda years ago by installing full size van bump stops. Knocked about an inch or so of travel out of it. Makes a big difference. Any sort of travel limiters would be a cheap fix. You only need a little more than an inch of rise. Maybe hang another 20 pounds on the nose somewhere, also.


[image][/image]
Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: Streetwize] #1812751
04/27/15 12:25 AM
04/27/15 12:25 AM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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You will probably never control it without wheelie bars. It is just too short and too high of a Cg to stay down, as noted by the video. Another thing to consider; will it be safe at speed?
You have the torque to lift the front when you got back in it, scary.

Last edited by gregsdart; 04/27/15 12:27 AM.

8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: Streetwize] #1812771
04/27/15 12:41 AM
04/27/15 12:41 AM
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Az
Crizila Offline
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Wheelie bars are gonna be the answer with that short a wb and hi cg. Think I would be looking at down force at speed also. Insurance paid up? whistling


Fastest 300
Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: Crizila] #1812797
04/27/15 01:02 AM
04/27/15 01:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,866
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline OP
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Well I'm excited that I finally have the combo to put all the powe to the ground, with the tight converter it was very consistent low 11 car but it left really soft but it was very easy to drive. Power to weight should make it a legit low-mid 10 car but now that it's launching hard I've got to adjust and tune the suspension.

It's always been a lot of fun and now I know it'll be even more....it really goes very straight down the track. I know I can ride the bull if I can just get it out of the chute!


WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: Streetwize] #1812804
04/27/15 01:10 AM
04/27/15 01:10 AM
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Posts: 9,866
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline OP
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I really want to thank PBR (pittsbughracer) for the converter advice, the car really feels completely transformed with the 8" vert and the higher lift bullet cam compared to before it feels like it's got a full time 75 shot over the old combo.

I probably could have stayed content with easy low 11's but I knew the power from the motor was there and just not getting to the ground efficiently,..at least that doesn't seem to be the issue anymore, lol worst case it'll probably run in the 10's starting in second gear now.

I've heard of guys building 2speed ( glide ) turbo 400's, has this ever been done with our transmissions?

Last edited by Streetwize; 04/27/15 01:27 AM.

WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: Streetwize] #1812819
04/27/15 01:35 AM
04/27/15 01:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
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if it were me, i'd raise the pinion angle & hook second gear with my wheels in the air. i changed converters last season & it wanted to ride on the rear bumper. lifting the ladder bar up 1 hole fixed that & the shift into second allowed me to carry the wheelstand a lot further.

1545006_216389018549039_1834003989_n.jpg
Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: Streetwize] #1812840
04/27/15 02:55 AM
04/27/15 02:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,149
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
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Griner was working on a trans-brake valve body for Flites that left in second gear. I saw one demonstrated,but not sure if it made it into production.


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: Streetwize] #1812878
04/27/15 08:40 AM
04/27/15 08:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 667
st.louis,mo.
dart games Offline
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st.louis,mo.
limit front end travel to 3 inches,and or add wheelie bars

Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: Streetwize] #1812895
04/27/15 09:43 AM
04/27/15 09:43 AM
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pittsburghracer Offline
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Originally Posted By Streetwize
I really want to thank PBR (pittsbughracer) for the converter advice, the car really feels completely transformed with the 8" vert and the higher lift bullet cam compared to before it feels like it's got a full time 75 shot over the old combo.

I probably could have stayed content with easy low 11's but I knew the power from the motor was there and just not getting to the ground efficiently,..at least that doesn't seem to be the issue anymore, lol worst case it'll probably run in the 10's starting in second gear now.

I've heard of guys building 2speed ( glide ) turbo 400's, has this ever been done with our transmissions?




I'm glad it worked out for you performance wise. I'm sure you will get the Rocky's chassis dialed in but it won't be a cake walk like it is on an A body car. These small blocks LOVE high stall convertors. It took some real testing but we finally ran some low 10.50's in Matts duster last year with the 727 and it s at 5400 stall. The 904 had a 5200 stall and a low gear set and was so much faster until we raised the stall again. Mines only about 5100 with my powerglide but I'm going to hit it with some more horsepower this year.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: pittsburghracer] #1812952
04/27/15 12:07 PM
04/27/15 12:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,866
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline OP
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Thanks, PBR,

It's gonna be fun to sort out, friends are telling me to switch to a glide but I'd like to keep it all Mopar.

I wonder if anyone ever did any race development on the old Mopar Powerflight 2 speeds of the late 50's early 60's? If you could even find one today...I would imagine it shared some internals with the 904? I remember it didn't have provision for a parking brake, but I think it had a reputation as being very efficient and strong, I guess there was no aftermarket for it because the TF was just so good.

Last edited by Streetwize; 04/27/15 12:17 PM.

WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: Streetwize] #1813035
04/27/15 02:02 PM
04/27/15 02:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Florida
Locomotion Offline
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Adjustable front shocks can help. OEM shocks are just too loose on extension as well as compression. But wheelie bars would be the best safety device with something that wheelstands so easily. If weather conditions change for the better, that can catch you off guard. My car goes higher when it's cool & dry out early and late in the year.

I did see an early Max Wedge car a few weeks ago that wheelied easily and had a big, obvious weight bolted on up front.

Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: Locomotion] #1813043
04/27/15 02:20 PM
04/27/15 02:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,866
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline OP
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I was wondering about an adjustable since the rocky takes a convention Bayonet top through bolt bottom like a Mopar ( it also has T bars btw)

Limiting the front travel with snubbers seems fairly easy, it was running 7.0's at right at 99 (1/8th mile) before the converter swap but this is a whole new animal now!

The issue with the wheel stand is with such a short wb it tends to come down pretty hard, limiting the free upward travel distance may help more than limiting the rate of rise from the shocks, but we'll see.

Last edited by Streetwize; 04/27/15 02:21 PM.

WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: Streetwize] #1813139
04/27/15 04:09 PM
04/27/15 04:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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First what suspension on the rear and what shocks on both ends..
if you can loosen the extension on the rear shocks so the back lifts
more.. then I would build a adjustable limiter for the fronts.. I
also like to use a valve spring on the limiter so it doesnt slam to
a stop and up sets the chassis.. start with very little front movement
and work your way up.. if you have a 4-link in back you can dial most
of it out with adjustments on the bars(use a real short IC so it lifts
the back of the car and not the front)
wave

Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1813190
04/27/15 05:13 PM
04/27/15 05:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,866
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline OP
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Streetwize  Offline OP
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Rear is stock leaf springs and Lakewood slapper bars with maybe about 1/4" of gap!!! It's just about pre-loaded to the front spring eye in neutral and slight rise at the 3000rpm stutter on the 2 step. The springs sit nearly flat with hardly any arch at all.

Rancho 9 ways are set on 9

Lenny (Melton) told me don't change a thing on the back, this thing will just about hook on Ice.

Gonna get some of those trimmable poly snubbers and start with about 2" rise and just make sure they come up evenly. I'll see where that goes

Last edited by Streetwize; 04/27/15 05:14 PM.

WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: Streetwize] #1813197
04/27/15 05:39 PM
04/27/15 05:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
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pittsburghracer Offline
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Isn't it fun having to much power. Lol


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: Streetwize] #1813203
04/27/15 05:47 PM
04/27/15 05:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Soften the rear shock setting(extension) so the rear will
lift more.. it will be a bit harder for the front to lift
over the CG
wave

Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: Streetwize] #1813206
04/27/15 05:50 PM
04/27/15 05:50 PM
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Posts: 16,917
NC
440Jim Offline
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It may take a few things, but start simple IMO.
On my car limiting the front end travel helps a lot. More rebound damping in the front shocks helps also. I replaced the stock A-body front end bumpers that were about 1.2" tall with ones about 2" tall. These were aftermarket (Lakewood?) bumpers for slapper bars that I cut down since they were way over 2" to start with. I use shims (large flat washers) between the bumper and the frame to fine adjust travel (.125" each for starters)

Travel_limiter.jpg

1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: 440Jim] #1813242
04/27/15 06:47 PM
04/27/15 06:47 PM
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Central New York
bfury Offline
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This so easy, dial back the power till it stops! Maybe a piece of wood under the accelerator pedal. whistling grin punkrocka


No Stock
Re: Best way to limit Wheelstands? [Re: Streetwize] #1813243
04/27/15 06:48 PM
04/27/15 06:48 PM
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dvw Offline
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I wouldn't even bother with front shocks yet. Remove all the rebound travel you can in the front first. If this doesn't fix it front shocks aren't going to cure it either. Battery up front? It should be. Any weight you can either move forward or lower in the chassis? Lower is a big help.
Doug

Last edited by dvw; 04/27/15 06:49 PM.
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