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Slow starter still causing issues #1785224 03/21/15 10:49 PM 03/21/15 10:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 989 spokane/pullman Wa R ryanf OP super stock
ryanf OP super stock R Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 989 spokane/pullman Wa	From my first post i finally had some spare time to look at the dart. a 383 bigblock 833 transmission mini starter I decided to remove the variable of my wiring harness and wire the starter directly. off the engine it spins freely. I used 4awg wire for both negative and positive. i cleaned the block ground, put a ground from the block to the body, and made a jumper wire for the starter. before installing the starter i tested the battery with the voltmeter and it read 12/12.2 when i installed the starter and grounded it, the voltmeter read 10.0 and the starter was just clicking. any idea or suggestions? Ryan Last edited by ryanf; 03/21/15 11:02 PM.

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: ryanf] #1785225 03/21/15 11:25 PM 03/21/15 11:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,909 Grand Prairie,Texas stumpy I Win
stumpy I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,909 Grand Prairie,Texas	Have you had the battery load tested?

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: ryanf] #1785226 03/21/15 11:27 PM 03/21/15 11:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	12-12.2 seems a bit low (maybe). Also the bendix gear has to pushed by the solenoid rod into the flywheel teeth pretty much before the main starter is energized. Might be an issue there or a juice problem. Did we try another battery? recent problem? I'd loosen the starter & have a helper work the key as you jiggle/move the starter. Is there an inspection plate if removed will let you see if the teeth are coming all the way forward to mesh & you can take off the main cable & jump the solenoid only to kick it forward & see how it is going (if you can visually see them mesh on a stick, I dont know sticks) live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: RapidRobert] #1785227 03/21/15 11:32 PM 03/21/15 11:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 989 spokane/pullman Wa R ryanf OP super stock
ryanf OP super stock R Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 989 spokane/pullman Wa	i have not had the battery tested but its a new one put on a trickle charger, pulled another from a working car, still the same issue. Everything is new/rebuilt trying to break the engine in. I removed the inspection plate and when installed the starter gear is meshing with the flywheel.

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: ryanf] #1785228 03/21/15 11:35 PM 03/21/15 11:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 18,406 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN... N NITROUSN I Live Here
NITROUSN I Live Here N Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 18,406 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...	12.0 to 12.2 is a battery that is very low on charge. Your fully charged battery should be 12.6 or better.

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: NITROUSN] #1785229 03/22/15 12:34 AM 03/22/15 12:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 989 spokane/pullman Wa R ryanf OP super stock
ryanf OP super stock R Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 989 spokane/pullman Wa	i put the battery on the charger and went underneath the car to snap this picture of the starter gear and flywheel. 8467242-WP_20150321_19_28_37_Raw.jpg (113 downloads)

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: ryanf] #1785230 03/22/15 01:14 AM 03/22/15 01:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 18,406 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN... N NITROUSN I Live Here
NITROUSN I Live Here N Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 18,406 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...	Your picture shows the solenoid able to pull the drive gear in. All that shows is the starters small wire able to pull enough current to draw it in. Now you need to find out where the big wire or ground is failing. You need to test each with a voltage drop. The simple problem is just about smacking you in the face.

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: NITROUSN] #1785231 03/22/15 01:31 AM 03/22/15 01:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 989 spokane/pullman Wa R ryanf OP super stock
ryanf OP super stock R Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 989 spokane/pullman Wa	that picture is the starter at rest, when power is added it just clicks. i have jumped the small and large starter wires. ground is to the block, to the front sub frame, from the block to the firewall, and to a bumper bolt. please tell me what i am missing.

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: ryanf] #1785232 03/22/15 03:07 AM 03/22/15 03:07 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	I spaced that you have a mini. I have one & I'll look at it tomorrow (if someone or some tidbit of info doesn't help you before then). On a mini the teeth are normally engaged into the flywheel at rest (like yours is in the pic?) New territory for me live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: RapidRobert] #1785233 03/22/15 10:01 AM 03/22/15 10:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa M mikemee1331 master
mikemee1331 master M Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa	I am probably not looking at the picture right but i'll ask based on what I think I see. why is the starter gear engaged with the flywheel 'at rest'?

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: mikemee1331] #1785234 03/22/15 10:06 AM 03/22/15 10:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 531 USA 5 540DUSTER mopar
540DUSTER mopar 5 Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 531 USA	I was thinking the same thing mikemee

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: mikemee1331] #1785235 03/22/15 10:20 AM 03/22/15 10:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,711 Moved to N.E. Tennessee GomangoCuda master
GomangoCuda master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,711 Moved to N.E. Tennessee	Quote: I am probably not looking at the picture right but i'll ask based on what I think I see. why is the starter gear engaged with the flywheel 'at rest'? Quote: I was thinking the same thing mikemee Me to. Is the starter hitting the side of the block like often happens with a mini in a BB? If it is then when you tightened the starter bolts it may have cocked the starter nose towards the flywheel jamming the gears. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: GomangoCuda] #1785236 03/22/15 10:40 AM 03/22/15 10:40 AM
Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa M mikemee1331 master
mikemee1331 master M Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa	Quote: Quote: I am probably not looking at the picture right but i'll ask based on what I think I see. why is the starter gear engaged with the flywheel 'at rest'? Quote: I was thinking the same thing mikemee Me to. Is the starter hitting the side of the block like often happens with a mini in a BB? If it is then when you tightened the starter bolts it may have cocked the starter nose towards the flywheel jamming the gears. or the wrong starter...

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: mikemee1331] #1785237 03/22/15 12:08 PM 03/22/15 12:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 989 spokane/pullman Wa R ryanf OP super stock
ryanf OP super stock R Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 989 spokane/pullman Wa	so both mini starters have the gears resting in the flywheel. The nose of the starter fits right in the hole of the bellhousing and is flush against the block. so i take it the starter gear should not be resting in the flywheel? could this be a problem with my flywheel?

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: ryanf] #1785238 03/22/15 12:13 PM 03/22/15 12:13 PM
Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa M mikemee1331 master
mikemee1331 master M Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa	this is absolutely the problem the gear is being driven forward to engage the flywheel (as it should) but it is already engaged so it binds. this story would not have ended well for that starter if it had started up!

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: ryanf] #1785239 03/22/15 12:21 PM 03/22/15 12:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Quote: I used 4awg wire for both negative and positive. Are you working on a riding lawn mower? 4 awg is too small. Starters draw a lot of current, the wire has to be able to carry it. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: mikemee1331] #1785240 03/22/15 12:58 PM 03/22/15 12:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 989 spokane/pullman Wa R ryanf OP super stock
ryanf OP super stock R Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 989 spokane/pullman Wa	Quote: this is absolutely the problem the gear is being driven forward to engage the flywheel (as it should) but it is already engaged so it binds. this story would not have ended well for that starter if it had started up! So if this is my problem how do i fix it? as either the starter gear is to long or the flywheel teeth are to close.

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: ryanf] #1785241 03/22/15 01:18 PM 03/22/15 01:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa M mikemee1331 master
mikemee1331 master M Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa	what starter are you using?

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: mikemee1331] #1785242 03/22/15 02:03 PM 03/22/15 02:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 989 spokane/pullman Wa R ryanf OP super stock
ryanf OP super stock R Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 989 spokane/pullman Wa	Quote: what starter are you using? I am using a mini starter

Re: Slow starter still causing issues [Re: ryanf] #1785243 03/22/15 02:15 PM 03/22/15 02:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa M mikemee1331 master
mikemee1331 master M Joined: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,154 bethlehem pa	Quote: Quote: what starter are you using? I am using a mini starter my bad, what mini starter? I read in your other post that you ordered a new one from the parts store but what did you order?

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