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NV4500 (?) #1745805
02/03/15 06:38 PM
02/03/15 06:38 PM
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bboogieart Offline OP
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I have a '76 heavy 3/4 ton, D 200, 2 wheel drive.
I was thinking of an A-833 overdrive or maybe a 518.
However a member mentioned the NV4500.
My truck has a 318 with the granny gear 4-speed with I believe 3:55 rear gears.
What I am wondering is, would the 4500 be a better match and what are the pluses and minuses?
Is the 4500 easier to find and what sort of prices are they going for?
Will I need the hydraulic clutch or can I use the one I have.
What about the Bell-housing?
How long is the 4500, could I use the original 2 piece drive shaft or should I use the one from the donor truck.
Will I need something made?
I do use the truck for hauling on occasion, so I assume the heavy duty unit would probably be my best bet.
I would like to get the RPMs down at cruise,
and better mileage wouldn't hurt.
Kinda long, but I know this is the place to get answers.
Thanks to all for any help.


I have mechanical Aptitude.
I can screw up anything.
Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: bboogieart] #1745806
02/03/15 07:35 PM
02/03/15 07:35 PM
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It's a 200 lb transmission that is heavy duty but shifts pretty well, compared to older 4-speed truck transmissions.
Much of the information is online.
Start here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Venture_Gear_4500_transmission

Next www.nv4500transmission.com

The NV4500 has two major problems, lube and 5th gear.

The lube is a problem because it takes a gallon or more and the stuff is expensive.
The fifth gear is a problem because of the original design. Again read up on it online. There is at least one real fix for the problem.

For a heavy 3/4 ton truck the 4500 is the choice for a 5-speed. The A833OD isn't in the same ballpark with respect to strength.

R.

Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: dogdays] #1745807
02/03/15 09:54 PM
02/03/15 09:54 PM
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hey I run a combo like that. used a 92 nv4500 5 speed with 3.55 gear.

yes, lube is a few $ and NEEDED! GL-4 only.

IMO,5th gear issue seems to be 4x4 heavy towing in 5th gear lugging the engine. not read to many failures on the 2x units other than wrong type of lube.

I think it is a blast in my 85 stepside. :drive

everyone says it is no good for hot rodding but I beg to differ.

holley 650 spredbore dbl pumper
holley STREET Dominator intake
Hughes whiplash roller cam
hedman headers/2.5 duels 2 chamber muffs dumps at the steps
9 1/4 - 3.55 lockright locker
29x9.5x15 mud tire

18+ mpg 1800 rpm @ 55 mph

Last edited by scratchnfotraction; 02/04/15 01:02 PM.
Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1745808
02/04/15 08:46 AM
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Thanx for the replies guys.
My concern for now is strength and longevity. The truck in question will be used regularly and should be able to hold up.
It sounds like this is the swap for me.
Now to do the research and start looking.

The information in the above link is very helpful.
Anybody have a link to the swap into a 70's d200, and what is needed?

It will be awhile.
I will start a new link once I get the parts and get ready to get started.
I am guessing I will need everything from the master cylinder to the output yoke, possibly even a drive shaft.
Scratching, I look forward to this swap and your trucks are legendary.
I hope you don't mind I will be looking for a brain to pick and you seem to be THE guy.


I have mechanical Aptitude.
I can screw up anything.
Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: bboogieart] #1745809
02/04/15 11:32 AM
02/04/15 11:32 AM
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LOL! dont forget the cab replacment for the hydro clutch

my 85 cab was shot so I replaced the cab shell with a 91 cab that has the hole for clutch-MC mounting.

I made a great score on my nv4500 for 400$ and the cab shell for 350$ at the same scrap yard. all said and done 1500$ thats with 200 for a set of headers to clear the mini starter/hydro bell.

A trick I came up with was to turn the trans mount around 180* and blot it to the trans so the 85 auto crossmember bolts in stock location in the frame.

the 4500 is about 2" longer due to 5th gear in tail housing and 88-up the changed the trans mount & crossmember/location.

I THINK the NV4500 shares the same bell/bolt pattern as a NP435 4-speed. so you may use the older mech linkage with mech bell.

got plenty of pics of the cab/trans swap if you need referance pics.

Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1745810
02/06/15 03:33 PM
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bboogieart Offline OP
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Thanx scratch.
You are very helpful.

From what I can get out of this, all I will need is just a good transmission, and a new clutch & resurface the flywheel, for my mechanical set-up...
Good to know I can just flip the mount.

I guess the drive shaft will be a different story. Will try to get one with the trans. Otherwise I can get one made. I am hoping a one piece will work. If not maybe I can just get a section of my two piece shortened.

I also have a 360 for this truck, but will need to get the crank drilled as it's for an automatic. I have a stock 4 bbl manifold and a Quadrajet to go on as well. Will have to look into a cam and exhaust later.

I also have an 84(?) cab that will replace the rust buckets cab.
Got it from moparts member "Jimbob". It's an automatic cab but I can make a hole in the tunnel easy enough.
I also have a solid box, but it will need a new skin for one side and a wheel arch on the other.
I have front clip sheet metal as well.
It's from a used car lot locally.
I'm actually surprised I managed to find all this stuff in good shape here in the salty North woods of Wisconsin.

Rust bucket brought home the cab.



The cab





Front clip



I have mechanical Aptitude.
I can screw up anything.
Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: bboogieart] #1745811
02/06/15 08:32 PM
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You are behind the times. You don't need to drill the crank for a pilot bushing. Buy the one that fits in the torque converter register. Most of the crankshafts have deep enough holes drilled into the end of the cranks that the part of the pilot shaft that sticks through the bearing just sits inside its little cavity. It did on my '86 Fifth Ave. motor with room to spare.
Or you can trim the pilot a little if it bottoms out. No big deal.

R.

Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: dogdays] #1745812
02/06/15 10:17 PM
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Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1745813
02/06/15 10:18 PM
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Last edited by scratchnfotraction; 02/06/15 10:18 PM.
Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1745814
02/06/15 10:21 PM
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looks like the cowl panel will buff right out.

looks good in one pic!

but not so good in the next pic bent with logs and saw dust.

Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: bboogieart] #1745815
02/07/15 12:30 AM
02/07/15 12:30 AM
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What we did for my son's is find a 2500, Magnum 360 with an NV4500. We paid like $500 for the truck, sold the diff's for $500 and bolted it into his 88. What a great swap it is.

Sheldon

Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1745816
02/07/15 03:18 PM
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Quote:

looks like the cowl panel will buff right out.

looks good in one pic!

but not so good in the next pic bent with logs and saw dust.




Yep hindsight is always 20-20.
You should have seen the big curved branch laying across it. With the center sitting in front of the windshield and both ends on the ground.
I should have moved it before the tree trimming.


It looks like it won't show once the sheet metal is installed, but I intend to fix it first.
I can't believe it didn't take out the windshield. I seem to have bad luck with them.

No surprised I am behind the times. I usually prefer it that way. Good to know I can use my 360 without any extra expense. This just keeps getting better.
Sure wish I could find a whole truck for $500. We will see what I come up with.
Thanks to you all for the guidance.


I have mechanical Aptitude.
I can screw up anything.
Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: bboogieart] #1745817
02/08/15 08:46 PM
02/08/15 08:46 PM
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NV4500...


The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.

JB Rhinehart, Realist

A-Body's RULE!
Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: Rhinodart] #1745818
02/08/15 09:04 PM
02/08/15 09:04 PM
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part number for the bearing at the dealer is 53009180AB.

FYI, a Magnum 360 and LA360 are balanced differently---which means the flywheels are different (also the front balancer too). There may be an aftermarket flywheel that'll have different holes tapped for different size pressure plates/clutch setups. Might be one available for the LA 360 so you can use a 4500 trans clutch on it.

A nv3500 trans might be a little easier to use, but pretty sure you need to convert to a hydraulic setup on the clutch--I don't think it is that big of a deal if you can do some fab work yourself a little bit.

I have a 833OD in my truck. If you are not abusive, they will do just fine. They are strong---not as strong as a regular 833 in an iron case--but still strong enough to hold to a big block. I put 3.55 in it, first gear is pretty steep. Not sure 100% if I like those, I need to drive it more before I decide to go up or down on the gearing with my tire size (29-30" tall).


Outcast Dodge guy.
Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: 85_Ram_4speed] #1745819
02/08/15 09:20 PM
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Quote:

part number for the bearing at the dealer is 53009180AB.
Might be one available for the LA 360 so you can use a 4500 trans clutch on it.




Thanx for the bearing part number.
So you are saying,

I can't use my original flywheel?
Everything else works though, wouldn't it?
How about the two piece drive shaft?
Guess I'll look into a custom flywheel.

If I can't find one, With all the old stuff I have laying around...
I will better off putting a 727 behind my 360.
I was just hoping I could get an overdrive to work. 8 mpg bites.


I have mechanical Aptitude.
I can screw up anything.
Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: bboogieart] #1745820
02/08/15 09:53 PM
02/08/15 09:53 PM
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I am not sure what the clutch size (thus the pressure plate size and bolt pattern are) that are compatiable with the NV4500. It is possible the pressure plate will work on your flywheel (assuming you have the correct one for your engine), But I do not know for sure---just wanted to give you a heads up on that. Do not just assume this will all go together.

Plus 360 flywheels (old LA style) came in two flavors, 130 tooth for 10.5" clutch setups and 143 tooth for 11" clutch setups. You need the correct bellhousings to go with the flywheels because the bellhousing positions the starter in the correct spot.

Also, I believe in your other post you talked about a '73 340 which is external balanced also and require it's own flywheel and balancer which are not the same as 360 magnum or LA series--it was kinda an oddball by itself. 273/318/ '68-72 340 are internal balanced and can use a flywheel from either engine.

Not sure if you can use a production driveshaft of either one or two piece variety, you'll probably have to get it together first and see what you need. I used factory parts in my 833 OD swap and that calls for a 50.5" driveshaft, but in reality, that was too short---a 51" fits perfect. It is always best to measure. I used a friends 50.5" shaft just so I could get the truck moving before I came up with a 51" shaft on my own.


Outcast Dodge guy.
Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: bboogieart] #1745821
02/08/15 10:09 PM
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you use a LA flywheel on the older LA engine. if you use a magnum engine With the nv4500 you use the magnum flywheel = balance + notch for crank sensor.

you good with the old clutch/bell/linkage as long as the nv4500 as long as the mech np435bell shares the same bolt pattern.

the 92-93 nv4500 has a 19 spline input with a 30 spline output shaft = 727-7260 slip yoke works fine.

the 88-V6 d100 had a hydro bell with the A535 5 speed and the 833/833od bolts up to that hydro bell as well.

I used the V6 flywheel PP TOB and ordered up the 93 magnum clutch disc with the correct 10.5/19 spines and not the 10.5/23 spline on the A535/833od input shaft.

at most you need a new 19 spline disc with the rest of the 4 speed fly/pp/tob

for the 2 piece drive shaft? does it have a slip yoke or bolt on yoke for the np435?

my 93-2x nv4500 is slip yoke and the stock 727 yoke worked fine.

if it IS slip yoke just have the front 1/2 of shaft cut 2"

it is bolt on yoke you need to find a front 1/2 of 2 piece shaft and cut it down.

3) have a new front 1/2 built to fit.

you only need to mod the front 1/2 of 2 piece shaft either way.

I may have the stock nv4500 slip yoke for a 7290 joint if you need it.

the top plate and shifter tower change on the HD 10 spine units sometime after 93-94 IIRC so keep that in mind when looking.

the shifter is ok but does not mount up like the np435 shifter.

Finding the thing is the hard part.

look on ebay = ManTrans in Tallahassee. Fl. has rebuilt ready to go nv4500 with 12 month 12,000 mile warranty for 900$-1200$ + shipping

drop it off at the door ready to install.

Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: 85_Ram_4speed] #1745822
02/08/15 10:16 PM
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Ok so, I have to find out if the NV4500 flywheel will work with my 360, or see if I can find an aftermarket one that will work with both?
I want to use my bell and not have to put together a hydraulic set-up.

Getting a drive shaft built here in farm country is no big deal.
Done it before.

I am just asking questions to see if anyone knew what will swap.
I haven't counted out the O-A833 or the A518 yet either. Summer is still a few months away. If I have to spend very much $ I will throw in something I have laying around here. i.e 727 and move onto another project for the time being.

I don't have a 340. I posted a link here in another members post.


I have mechanical Aptitude.
I can screw up anything.
Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1745823
02/08/15 10:46 PM
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you use a LA flywheel on the older LA engine.

Check

your good with the old clutch/bell/linkage as long as the nv4500 and the np435bell shares the same bolt pattern.

Check

the 92-93 nv4500 has a 19 spline input with a 30 spline output shaft = 727-7260 slip yoke works fine.

Check

You need a new 19 spline disc with the rest of the 4 speed fly/pp/tob

Check

for the 2 piece drive shaft? does it have a slip yoke or bolt on yoke for the np435?

Bolt on.

If it IS slip yoke just have the front 1/2 of shaft cut 2"

Check

I may have the stock nv4500 slip yoke for a 7290 joint if you need it.

Thanx Good here.

the top plate and shifter tower change on the HD 10 spine units sometime after 93-94 IIRC so keep that in mind when looking.

the shifter is ok but does not mount up like the np435 shifter.

Look for and older trans
Check

Finding the thing is the hard part.
Check

look on ebay = ManTrans in Tallahassee. Fl. has rebuilt ready to go nv4500 with 12 month 12,000 mile warranty for 900$-1200$ + shipping

drop it off at the door ready to install.

Thanx for all this. Here's a virtual toast for your time spent helping others.
I will be copying all this down for use when I start my search.

I saw that $1200.00 drop off deal
I will be looking for something a little cheaper.
I have free options looking me in the face every day.
I just would like an extra gear at speed.


I have mechanical Aptitude.
I can screw up anything.
Re: NV4500 (?) [Re: bboogieart] #1745824
02/15/15 02:48 PM
02/15/15 02:48 PM
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So great infor on the swap here but Bboog you did not mention your intended useage for the truck.

Are you hauling, racing, commuting?

We have a few NV4500 behind our Ram3500 Cummins tow trucks. Great transmission for our 10,000lbs trucks for towing but for an empty driver. I find 1st way too low with big rpm drops between shifts.

Do you like your current trans granny low? NV4500 not much different.


69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super






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