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Re: 742 gear question!
[Re: Wicked49670dart]
#1716220
12/27/14 04:50 AM
12/27/14 04:50 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,219
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,219
Bend,OR USA
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Three things to look at while it is apart, axle and spool splines, both sides, and cracks on the outer edges of the ring gear, coast and drive sides  Look really closely after cleaning all the gear oil off of both sides If cracked replace them now before they break off during a run   The howling indicates a change in the gear contact pattern to me BTW, which brand and type gears, street or Pro
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 742 gear question!
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1716221
12/27/14 01:07 PM
12/27/14 01:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
Wicked49670dart
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
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Thanks Cab, Richmond street gears and Richmond spool! One other thing I saw was the pinion seal was starting to leak also, was dry before with no movement in the pinion. Tells me the pinion under load was moving around? Thanks Matt
Last edited by Wicked49670dart; 12/27/14 01:21 PM.
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Re: 742 gear question!
[Re: Wicked49670dart]
#1716222
12/27/14 01:20 PM
12/27/14 01:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I dont know what could be happening that you come up with different back lash from side to side.. .010 is a little much.. if I recall... it should be .006 but not positive.. also every time I have noisey gears from a previous set up they were always noisey(they already have a wear pattern)... I use Richmond gears in most everything(street gears) 
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Re: 742 gear question!
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1716223
12/27/14 01:34 PM
12/27/14 01:34 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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Been running Richmond street gears for 10+ years in a 742 case and they were noisy from the gate...........  As far as the backlash.......... I think mine were at .006 right Cab? 
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: 742 gear question!
[Re: DC416]
#1716226
12/27/14 09:08 PM
12/27/14 09:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Did it have a crush sleeve or a solid spacer? I had one and ripped it hard, started making noise and it had a crush sleeve in it. Replaced it with a crush sleeve eliminator kit and was fine.
742 has a stepped pinion , the crush sleeve is 489 only.
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Re: 742 gear question!
[Re: Wicked49670dart]
#1716227
12/28/14 12:26 AM
12/28/14 12:26 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 10,555
Rittman Ohio
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I have seen this before when the shims were not de-burred before assembly  Sometimes the pinion bearings don't seat fully and when the pinion finally does get a hard whoopin the pressure smashes the burrs. Just my theory Gus 
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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Re: 742 gear question!
[Re: Wicked49670dart]
#1716230
12/28/14 11:28 AM
12/28/14 11:28 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,847
MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,847
MI, usa
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Quote:
Thanks guys for the help! Clean gear real good, checked all teeth and splines inside the spool. Everything looks O.K. Backlash is .010 checked in 3 spots and is what is etched on the Richmond ring gear. Preload is 10 pounds, gear pattern is definitely different. My problem that I'm still trying to figure out is, while rotating the pass axle clockwise (drive shaft disconnected)the axle rotated about 1" before the pinion yoke moved! Rotated counter clockwise 1" then the yoke moved again. Drivers side did not do this, rotated 1/4" before the yoke moved. Check the splines and the updated green bearing that Moser installed and all looks O.K. Again had a bad (loud) growling type noise when letting off the throttle from a hard full throttle launch! Thanks Matt
Preload is 10 lbs or 10 inch lbs? pinion alone or pinion and ring together? What does "the pattern is different" mean?
Doug
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Re: 742 gear question!
[Re: Wicked49670dart]
#1716231
12/28/14 01:04 PM
12/28/14 01:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Thanks guys for the help! Clean gear real good, checked all teeth and splines inside the spool. Everything looks O.K. Backlash is .010 checked in 3 spots and is what is etched on the Richmond ring gear. Preload is 10 pounds, gear pattern is definitely different. My problem that I'm still trying to figure out is, while rotating the pass axle clockwise (drive shaft disconnected)the axle rotated about 1" before the pinion yoke moved! Rotated counter clockwise 1" then the yoke moved again. Drivers side did not do this, rotated 1/4" before the yoke moved. Check the splines and the updated green bearing that Moser installed and all looks O.K. Again had a bad (loud) growling type noise when letting off the throttle from a hard full throttle launch! Thanks Matt
If you are turning an axle with a spool and you can turn it an inch before the yoke moves then something is very wrong on that side or the axle is made of rubber???
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Re: 742 gear question!
[Re: JohnRR]
#1716232
12/28/14 01:12 PM
12/28/14 01:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Thanks guys for the help! Clean gear real good, checked all teeth and splines inside the spool. Everything looks O.K. Backlash is .010 checked in 3 spots and is what is etched on the Richmond ring gear. Preload is 10 pounds, gear pattern is definitely different. My problem that I'm still trying to figure out is, while rotating the pass axle clockwise (drive shaft disconnected)the axle rotated about 1" before the pinion yoke moved! Rotated counter clockwise 1" then the yoke moved again. Drivers side did not do this, rotated 1/4" before the yoke moved. Check the splines and the updated green bearing that Moser installed and all looks O.K. Again had a bad (loud) growling type noise when letting off the throttle from a hard full throttle launch! Thanks Matt
If you are turning an axle with a spool and you can turn it an inch before the yoke moves then something is very wrong on that side or the axle is made of rubber???
The only thing I can think of for the different rotation
is the splines on the axle and maybe the spool are
worn on the one side.. more than the other side
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Re: 742 gear question!
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1716233
12/28/14 07:01 PM
12/28/14 07:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
Wicked49670dart
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
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Thanks guys, the pinion preload is inch pounds. The pattern now is inside edge on the drive side and outside on the heel side. Checked splines inside of the spool on the bench, all the splines look good. Measured inside diameter, both sides measure the same. Measured splines on the outside diameter of both axles, same size and measured at 3 different spots. Inserted both axles into the spool, both move the same when rotated back and forth. The ring and pinion pattern is already worn into the gear, so going to order all new gears and install kit with bearings so try this again. What brand of gears does everybody like to use? Motive, Richmond, or US gears? Thanks for all the help!
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Re: 742 gear question!
[Re: Wicked49670dart]
#1716234
12/28/14 07:51 PM
12/28/14 07:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555
Rittman Ohio
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I like Motive gears Last couple of rears I've done with them the pattern was very nice. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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Re: 742 gear question!
[Re: Wicked49670dart]
#1716235
12/28/14 08:12 PM
12/28/14 08:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Most of the time I use Richmond but have used Motive and Yukon.. I have a Yukon in my Rampage for the street/track and Richmond in the race car(8 3/4 in the race car and 9" in the Rampage.. 742 alum in the race car)
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Re: 742 gear question!
[Re: upnover]
#1716237
12/29/14 02:12 AM
12/29/14 02:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,847
MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,847
MI, usa
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Read this completely. http://www.yukongear.com/Downloads/Manuals/Yukon_General_Installation_Instructions.pdf It will tell you more about patterns and set up than I had read in years in service manuals. This will get you a true pattern that works. Make sure you get the pinion depth set so that you have a proper pattern with the gear manufacturers suggested backlash. Do not try to adjust the pattern by putting the backlash beyond limits. Then pull it apart, shim the yoke for proper pinion bearing preload, 15-30"lbs. Install the ring gear and carrier. Set backlash to .000"-.001". Tighten the opposite adjuster until you are at your previous back lash that you had during the pattern check. This will give you your side bearing preload. If the patterns not correct, the pinion is at the wrong depth. Doug
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Re: 742 gear question!
[Re: dvw]
#1716238
12/29/14 03:51 AM
12/29/14 03:51 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
Wicked49670dart
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 742
Oak Harbor, WA
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Quote:
Read this completely.
http://www.yukongear.com/Downloads/Manuals/Yukon_General_Installation_Instructions.pdf
It will tell you more about patterns and set up than I had read in years in service manuals. This will get you a true pattern that works. Make sure you get the pinion depth set so that you have a proper pattern with the gear manufacturers suggested backlash. Do not try to adjust the pattern by putting the backlash beyond limits. Then pull it apart, shim the yoke for proper pinion bearing preload, 15-30"lbs. Install the ring gear and carrier. Set backlash to .000"-.001". Tighten the opposite adjuster until you are at your previous back lash that you had during the pattern check. This will give you your side bearing preload. If the patterns not correct, the pinion is at the wrong depth.
Doug
Thanks for your help, a lot of good info there! Matt
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