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racing oil #1715851
12/26/14 02:02 PM
12/26/14 02:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 657
B.C.
M
mk_ Offline OP
mopar
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B.C.
I've been running the penzoil 25w50 racing oil in my low 10 second 498 bracket engine but find its quite thick and takes a long time to warm up and thin out before first run in the mornings.
I want to switch to a much thinner oil for next year and came across this interesting but long article some of you might find interesting as well.

engine oil testing

I know many of the stockers and super stockers run a light oil and gain some ET, but for regular bracket racing do some of you run thin oil successfully with minimal engine wear over a season or two?

Re: racing oil [Re: mk_] #1715852
12/26/14 02:35 PM
12/26/14 02:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Q
Quicktree Offline
I Win
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Q

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mobil 1 synthetic what ever weight you choose

Re: racing oil [Re: Quicktree] #1715853
12/26/14 02:40 PM
12/26/14 02:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 69
norcal
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JLaSalle Offline
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norcal
Been running 10-30 synthetic for the last 15 years.No problems with wear.I feel it keeps a tighter et window ie not picking up a bunch during hotlap situations.

Re: racing oil [Re: mk_] #1715854
12/26/14 02:45 PM
12/26/14 02:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
I was blending 2 oils to get the pressure I wanted
on the engine at the shut down with hot oil... I would
warm the engine up driving around the top end area
so the whole drive line would warm up... I just didnt
like 0 oil pressure like the SS racers would see on
the shut down.. on the tear downs I didnt see anything
that would be a issue

Re: racing oil [Re: mk_] #1715855
12/26/14 02:46 PM
12/26/14 02:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
Too Many Posts
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Cincinnati, Ohio
I think 15W40 would be good for you. Sure you could go thinner and maybe single viscosity?, but I think 14W40 oil is best for you because you race in the cold and hot it sounds like?

Re: racing oil [Re: Quicktree] #1715856
12/26/14 02:48 PM
12/26/14 02:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,402
Littleton Colo
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Geezer Offline
pro stock
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Posts: 1,402
Littleton Colo
Looks like Old WalMart Re-refined non detergent came out on top.

Re: racing oil [Re: JLaSalle] #1715857
12/26/14 02:49 PM
12/26/14 02:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,116
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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Posts: 20,116
PA.
I usually go 3 seasons of weekly racing from April to November and use 10-30 Brad Penn Racing Oil. Lots of 3 day race weekends plus lots of test n tunes. PA and Ohio weather ( Colder than heck to hotter than )


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: racing oil [Re: pittsburghracer] #1715858
12/26/14 02:55 PM
12/26/14 02:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,532
off the grid
340B5 Offline
pro stock
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Posts: 1,532
off the grid
Synthetic is great for Rollers but it can wipe a flat tappet.


Yeah, it's got a smallblock.
Re: racing oil [Re: mk_] #1715859
12/26/14 03:05 PM
12/26/14 03:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt Offline
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Hilltown Pa
Seen it before, but still interesting.


Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
Re: racing oil [Re: mk_] #1715860
12/26/14 03:21 PM
12/26/14 03:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,310
Charlotte, NC
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LSP Offline
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Posts: 1,310
Charlotte, NC
Quote:

I know many of the stockers and super stockers run a light oil and gain some ET, but for regular bracket racing do some of you run thin oil successfully with minimal engine wear over a season or two?




In my case 0 weight is only used for class run offs, 5-20 used for eliminations that weekend and all year long.

What you can get away with for viscosity depends largely on clearances. I'd take it one step down in viscosity at a time, until you reach the oil pressure you're looking for.

Re: racing oil [Re: LSP] #1715861
12/26/14 05:05 PM
12/26/14 05:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
Mattax Offline
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Phila. Pa.
It was great that "Rat" was willing to do that test. Unfortunately, a combination of his personality and blindness to other factors turned most of the speedtalk threads into p*ss*ng contests.

Although I am concerned about wear, my own opinion has shifted to placing first priority on getting the right viscosity for the application. Along with the pressure gage, an oil temperature sensor is really helpful for this. I have one in the oil pan that fit the drain plug (although I've moved it to the side now). Last I looked VDO no longer makes that version. Too bad 'cause it was convenient.

Here's what I found most useful on the web:
A. E. Haas's Short course on oil viscosity. I think this originally was posted on a Ferrari forum. For me it was easiest to read by cutting and pasting into Word. I also drew the graphs he describes because I prefer pictures.

Richard Widman's Oil Selection Paper (pdf) download from this webpage. Although written for street driven Covair's, its easy enough to apply the information supplied to any racing or street/strip uses. After reading this, its obvious that Rat's testing is useful but not sufficient.

Widman also has an on-line oil weight temperature-viscosity graphing tool. Pretty nifty.

So, currently I'm running Brad Penn in the car and T6 in the Wagoneer because they offer good flat tappet anti-wear packages in the viscosity ranges I needed.

Last edited by Mattax; 12/26/14 05:45 PM.
Re: racing oil [Re: Mattax] #1715862
12/26/14 05:19 PM
12/26/14 05:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
Quote:

It was great that "Rat" was willing to do that test. Unfortunately, a combination of his personality and blindness to other factors turned most of the speedtalk threads into p*ss*ng contests.



x2...

I don't put much value in his testing procedures or results. Despite all his self-professed expertise on the topic, too many engine builders with far more day-to-day experiences called bogus on him, and then turned a deaf ear to his long-winded diatribes against them for not drinking his Kool-Aid.

Just my opinion, naturally...

Re: racing oil [Re: 340B5] #1715863
12/26/14 05:45 PM
12/26/14 05:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,893
Florida
Locomotion Offline
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Florida
Quote:

Synthetic is great for Rollers but it can wipe a flat tappet.






Use the right oil with the proper additives, valve train set up correctly and break it in right and you won't have a problem. I've done it for many years.


Amsoil synthetics - Wide variety of viscosities and applications.

FWIW, I run their Dominator 5w-20 all the time. I'm hoping to swap the engine out soon after about 4 season to play it safe because of fatigue concerns, not wear. Oil pressure might be considered a little high, around 70+ through the lights. But me and the engine are happy.

Re: racing oil [Re: mk_] #1715864
12/26/14 08:08 PM
12/26/14 08:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
If you know what your bearing clearances are and you know what the oil temp is when you're racing then you have enough information to call around and get a recommendation. The tech guys at the oil places will want to know that information.

A lot of drag cars go down the track with the oil fairly cold so you need to use a thinner oil than if it was a circle track car that runs at full temp. But you don't want to go too thin if your engine builder used wider clearances for the bearings.

A 10W-30 should be a good compromise for most bracket type engines but you might want to go a little thicker or thinner depending on your conditions.

I don't think you really need a 20w-50 unless it is super hot where you race and you have really big clearances in the engine. You are probably putting a lot of drag on your oil pump and maybe damaging your engine running that thick of an oil. Especially if the oil temp is less than 200+ degrees when you go full throttle.

Last edited by AndyF; 12/26/14 10:32 PM.
Re: racing oil [Re: 340B5] #1715865
12/26/14 09:28 PM
12/26/14 09:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Q
Quicktree Offline
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Quote:

Synthetic is great for Rollers but it can wipe a flat tappet.


I don't think so, just saying

Re: racing oil [Re: Quicktree] #1715866
12/26/14 10:56 PM
12/26/14 10:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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MI, usa
I run 5w30 Royal Purple. Change it at the end of the year (100) passes.
.003"rods/.0028" mains. Pressure relief is set to 60 psi@7100. I've checked bearing last year and will this year as well. They looked like new last check. Also only run 6-7 quarts in a 10 quart pan. The motor is always warmed up before making passes. Oil temp seldom exceeds 160 degrees.
Doug

Re: racing oil [Re: mk_] #1715867
12/26/14 11:23 PM
12/26/14 11:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,027
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Online content
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Mt Morris Michigan
I read an article in drag racing about a new oil called LAT that they claim is good for 4% increase. they gained 10hp on a 185hp vw test mule just with oil change alone.

Re: racing oil [Re: Quicktree] #1715868
12/26/14 11:29 PM
12/26/14 11:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 733
jacksonville,FLORIDA
slammedR/T Offline
super stock
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Posts: 733
jacksonville,FLORIDA
Quote:

mobil 1 synthetic what ever weight you choose




^^ this!!!! I love my Mobil 1 synthetic 15w-50 racing oil. ,I also really like the lucas racing oil but it is harder to find or you have to order it. The mobil 1 is cheap at walmart compared to online or parts store prices.


2000 Dakota R/T, 408 magnum, 727, Indy heads
1000cfm 4150 carb, 93 octane fuel.
motor; 10.258 @ 132.78
200 shot; 9.262 @ 144.69
racemagnum
Re: racing oil [Re: mk_] #1715869
12/27/14 01:16 AM
12/27/14 01:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
I've ran and used Valvoline 5W20Wtnon synthetic for a lot of years (15+yrs)in my street and strip as well as race only BB Mopar bracket motors making well over 600 HP with no problems so far. I do run loose clearnaces all thruoghout the motor, .003+ on the rods, .0035+ on the mains, .001+ on the wrist pins and at least .001 more than recommended on the piston to cylinder walls clearnces at room temps, .60 to 80 F I shoot for(trim the oil pump bypass spring to set the WOT pressures) the 10 lbs per 1000 RPM rule with hot oil,160+F on the engine dyno with the Valvoline 5W20Wt oil


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: racing oil [Re: dvw] #1715870
12/27/14 01:25 AM
12/27/14 01:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 30,947
Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Oregon
160 is fairly cold for oil temp so need to run the lighter weight oil.

I run Royal Purple XPR 5W-30 in my dyno engine. We try to get the oil temp up to 200 degrees but it is almost impossible to do even with a big heater in the oil tank. My oil lines are insulated which helps but the oil still cools off really fast. My engine will hold 80 psi at speed but at idle it drops down to about 30 psi hot.

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