Re: Block fill questions
[Re: MoparBilly]
#1708881
12/11/14 12:55 PM
12/11/14 12:55 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Quote:
Bill, The 508 in the Barnyard Viper is a tall filled 440 (to the bottom of the water pump holes). It has completed two Drag Weeks. Water temp never gets over 190, oil temp usually 210-220. We have a small oil cooler on it, and it needs a bigger one, when we push it hard, oil temp climbs to 230-240, and pressure starts to drop, 10-15lbs less than normal, and we change the oil at the next track!
It was a race engine that got pressed into street duty, so far, so good.
Oil cooler would be the way to go if you decide to fill. I'm considering it, but since I never seem to get past the first round, . . . . . .
Fastest 300
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Re: Block fill questions
[Re: Crizila]
#1708883
12/11/14 03:14 PM
12/11/14 03:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,639 Oakland, MI
dizuster
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,639
Oakland, MI
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I am always surprised with the "you can't block fill" crowd responses. I can only give my limited personal experience, but it has worked fine for me. On top of it I went against a LOT of the mainstream information that pops up from time to time. 1) I did not use hardblock... I used Embecco 885. It's a metallic based grout, and a 50lb bag is only about 1/3 of the cost of a hard block bucket. It's shrink rates are very good (Only 0.8% after 28 days). It also has the same thermal expansion rate as cast nodular iron (6.5 in/in). Meaning it's properties allow it to maintain it's shape long term, and it will grow/shrink with the block well. 2) I filled the block AFTER it was honed. The motor showed zero signs of blowby at idle cruise. It does show some oil out the breathers under high boost, but NEVER in the exhaust. 3) I have no oil cooler. I had previously never even come CLOSE to having an oil temp problem until I put the engine diaper on the car. The diaper holds a LOT of heat. But previous with standard pan out in the air, the car would idle/cruise/WOT just fine with nowhere near an oil temp issue. I probably have 100 total runs on my stock block, anywhere from 600~800hp level (depending on boost). Obviously boost is a completely different animal, so it's hard to judge just how much better it made the block, but I certainly think it helped it. Just my
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Re: Block fill questions
[Re: dizuster]
#1708884
12/11/14 06:25 PM
12/11/14 06:25 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Quote:
I am always surprised with the "you can't block fill" crowd responses. I can only give my limited personal experience, but it has worked fine for me. On top of it I went against a LOT of the mainstream information that pops up from time to time.
1) I did not use hardblock... I used Embecco 885. It's a metallic based grout, and a 50lb bag is only about 1/3 of the cost of a hard block bucket. It's shrink rates are very good (Only 0.8% after 28 days). It also has the same thermal expansion rate as cast nodular iron (6.5 in/in). Meaning it's properties allow it to maintain it's shape long term, and it will grow/shrink with the block well.
2) I filled the block AFTER it was honed. The motor showed zero signs of blowby at idle cruise. It does show some oil out the breathers under high boost, but NEVER in the exhaust.
3) I have no oil cooler. I had previously never even come CLOSE to having an oil temp problem until I put the engine diaper on the car. The diaper holds a LOT of heat. But previous with standard pan out in the air, the car would idle/cruise/WOT just fine with nowhere near an oil temp issue.
I probably have 100 total runs on my stock block, anywhere from 600~800hp level (depending on boost). Obviously boost is a completely different animal, so it's hard to judge just how much better it made the block, but I certainly think it helped it.
Just my
Didn't say you can't block fill, but you will have higher oil temps if you do. You are an exception. Actually, per the "Royal Purple" Techs, They got no problem running up to 250 degrees with their full synthetic race oil - what I use. They are speaking for their oil of course, not "other parts". I went with Moroso's filler. It's grout based. Other choice is epoxy based. All make similar expansion / contraction rate claims. If you go with grout type, mixing it with cold water will slow down the setting time and let you block vibrate more air pockets out. Also, most recommend filling prior to any machining work
Fastest 300
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Re: Block fill questions
[Re: dizuster]
#1708886
01/01/15 02:29 PM
01/01/15 02:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,547 Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,547
Syracuse,NY
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Quote:
I am always surprised with the "you can't block fill" crowd responses. I can only give my limited personal experience, but it has worked fine for me. On top of it I went against a LOT of the mainstream information that pops up from time to time.
1) I did not use hardblock... I used Embecco 885. It's a metallic based grout, and a 50lb bag is only about 1/3 of the cost of a hard block bucket. It's shrink rates are very good (Only 0.8% after 28 days). It also has the same thermal expansion rate as cast nodular iron (6.5 in/in). Meaning it's properties allow it to maintain it's shape long term, and it will grow/shrink with the block well.
2) I filled the block AFTER it was honed. The motor showed zero signs of blowby at idle cruise. It does show some oil out the breathers under high boost, but NEVER in the exhaust.
3) I have no oil cooler. I had previously never even come CLOSE to having an oil temp problem until I put the engine diaper on the car. The diaper holds a LOT of heat. But previous with standard pan out in the air, the car would idle/cruise/WOT just fine with nowhere near an oil temp issue.
I probably have 100 total runs on my stock block, anywhere from 600~800hp level (depending on boost). Obviously boost is a completely different animal, so it's hard to judge just how much better it made the block, but I certainly think it helped it.
Just my
....
I've given up responding to the block filler posts, I guess other than this one....I'll keep doing what I do.....lol...
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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Re: Block fill questions
[Re: dizuster]
#1708887
01/02/15 04:29 PM
01/02/15 04:29 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433 Toronto
mshred
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master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,433
Toronto
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Quote:
I am always surprised with the "you can't block fill" crowd responses. I can only give my limited personal experience, but it has worked fine for me. On top of it I went against a LOT of the mainstream information that pops up from time to time.
1) I did not use hardblock... I used Embecco 885. It's a metallic based grout, and a 50lb bag is only about 1/3 of the cost of a hard block bucket. It's shrink rates are very good (Only 0.8% after 28 days). It also has the same thermal expansion rate as cast nodular iron (6.5 in/in). Meaning it's properties allow it to maintain it's shape long term, and it will grow/shrink with the block well.
2) I filled the block AFTER it was honed. The motor showed zero signs of blowby at idle cruise. It does show some oil out the breathers under high boost, but NEVER in the exhaust.
3) I have no oil cooler. I had previously never even come CLOSE to having an oil temp problem until I put the engine diaper on the car. The diaper holds a LOT of heat. But previous with standard pan out in the air, the car would idle/cruise/WOT just fine with nowhere near an oil temp issue.
I probably have 100 total runs on my stock block, anywhere from 600~800hp level (depending on boost). Obviously boost is a completely different animal, so it's hard to judge just how much better it made the block, but I certainly think it helped it.
Just my
A lot of what I think contributes to your oil temps remaining low is running E85. It will definitely be higher with regular gasoline.
I made a switch from Brad Penn last year to Mobil 1 15W50 full synthetic race oil this year- I also eliminated my remote filter setup and went back to running the filter on the side of the block...More expensive for the oil, but for a pump gas street car with hardblock, here is a NOTICEABLE difference in how quick my oil heats up as well as what temperature it hovers at once warmed...Driving the car this summer was ALOT more enjoyable then the year before! It also surprised me considering I moved the oil filter back to a hot spot under the headers instead of away from heat (and less oil capacity too!)
My 2 cents, if you fill it for a street car, E85 or some other alchol based fuel will help or run a good synthetic oil as their heat properties are much better then a conventional, or even semi synthetic like Brad Penn, especially in terms of what temperature the oil breaks down at (Which is really what one needs to be concerned about).
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