Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1701820
11/26/14 10:25 PM
11/26/14 10:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,549
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
I Live Here
fourgearsavoy  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,549
Rittman Ohio
Quote:

Quote:

Boy do I feel like a geek I think I might just switch the positions and clip my ET from 10.91 to maybe 10.50 I thought I was doing pretty good with a 3600# car and 3.54 gears I'll change it tomorrow and wait unti spring and try it out.
Thanks
Gus


Gus, I will betcha you have all the ET and MPH your going to get out of the Carter pump and filter, no matter where you mount that filter All kidding aside those 90 GPH Fram filters do have two ninety degree turns inside of them Changing the location from the inlet to the outlet side of the pump may or any not make any difference to that pump I think those small Carter electric pumps, race or street version, are not rated above 6 lbs of pressure so the suction side is probally not straining real hard to keep the pump in fuel Maybe it is time for a better pump and filter combination



Yeah Cab I know I've pretty much exceeded the limits of that pump even though it's the 14 PSI race unit I'm still pulling hard at the stripe and I'm running just under 125 MPH I got a buddy that sells wires and fuel pumps so I might just upgrade this winter
Thanks Cab
Gus

8342874-moriaburnout.JPG (73 downloads)

64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701821
11/27/14 12:55 AM
11/27/14 12:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,586
Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana
ProStDodge Offline
master
ProStDodge  Offline
master

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,586
Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana
Won't it make sense that a finer filter would create more resistance to flow per given area, but increasing the surface area of the finer filter would result in the same resistance? In other words if I have a 10 micron filter with 1 sq.in. of filter surface area, it would have the same flow restriction as a 100 micron filter with 10 sq. in of surface area? So as long as my 100 micron fliter was rated to flow as much or more than the 10 micron filter, it should result in no additional strain on the pump.

Sorry, just threw this in for thought.

I run a 10 micron "Pre filter" and a 100 micron before the regulator. And the 100 micron filter is a pretty large unit (8" long, 2" diameter).

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: ProStDodge] #1701822
11/27/14 02:25 AM
11/27/14 02:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
J
Jerry Kathe Offline
enthusiast
Jerry Kathe  Offline
enthusiast
J

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
Quote:

Won't it make sense that a finer filter would create more resistance to flow per given area, but increasing the surface area of the finer filter would result in the same resistance? In other words if I have a 10 micron filter with 1 sq.in. of filter surface area, it would have the same flow restriction as a 100 micron filter with 10 sq. in of surface area? So as long as my 100 micron fliter was rated to flow as much or more than the 10 micron filter, it should result in no additional strain on the pump.




Its apears you understand that filtration and flow are two seperate values...but you have your numbers backwards.

All the same, you are much further along with
understanding this some.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: ProStDodge] #1701823
11/27/14 02:29 AM
11/27/14 02:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
News flash boys... PUMPS DONT SUCK.. atmospheric pressure
PUSHES the fuel into the pump.. the pump creates the
negative pressure(just like the piston does on the
engine).. thats why the pump companies tell you to
go larger on the inlet side..thats also why you dont
put a fine filter on the inlet side

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1701824
11/27/14 03:16 AM
11/27/14 03:16 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
J
Jerry Kathe Offline
enthusiast
Jerry Kathe  Offline
enthusiast
J

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
Do what?
You are kidding I hope.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Jerry Kathe] #1701825
11/27/14 03:20 AM
11/27/14 03:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

Do what?
You are kidding I hope.




Are you asking me "do what"... and no I'm not kidding

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1701826
11/27/14 03:24 AM
11/27/14 03:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
J
Jerry Kathe Offline
enthusiast
Jerry Kathe  Offline
enthusiast
J

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
Quote:

Quote:

Do what?
You are kidding I hope.




Are you asking me "do what"... and no I'm not kidding





Um......ok....

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Jerry Kathe] #1701827
11/27/14 03:32 AM
11/27/14 03:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Do what?
You are kidding I hope.




Are you asking me "do what"... and no I'm not kidding





Um......ok....




I have a few years flowing pumps... if you dont think
its atmospheric pressure try this.. get your biggest
and baddest pump and flow it.. then apply a vac to
the tank.. I'll bet you see the flow drop with the
vac... I tested pumps a long time and did all sorts
of tests... the same thing happens when you apply a
vac to the oil pan.. the pump put put drops

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1701828
11/27/14 04:04 AM
11/27/14 04:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
J
Jerry Kathe Offline
enthusiast
Jerry Kathe  Offline
enthusiast
J

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
Your confusing the hell out of me.....
if you have tested pumps then you know high pressure pumps have low draw and high volume pumps have reasonably strong draw ( the term strong is relative with this subject)

Sure you could create a negative pressure in the reservoir - but you are simply canceling the negative pressure the pump is creating.

For clarity lets be sure we are talking one concept here....electric fuel pumps for carb and not injection systems.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701829
11/27/14 04:17 AM
11/27/14 04:17 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
master
451Mopar  Offline
master

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
On the Coronet, I have a 100 micron stainless screen filter from KRC Racing as a pre-pump filter on my EFI system with a 10 micron EFI filter after the pump.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/krc-4706r/overview/

On the Charger I have a Mallory Comp 500 (40 micron) pre-pump filter and the Mallory 250 fuel pump, no problems.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/maa-3500m/overview/

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: ProStDodge] #1701830
11/27/14 04:38 AM
11/27/14 04:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,664
North Sweden
R
RT540 Offline
top fuel
RT540  Offline
top fuel
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,664
North Sweden
Quote:

Won't it make sense that a finer filter would create more resistance to flow per given area, but increasing the surface area of the finer filter would result in the same resistance? In other words if I have a 10 micron filter with 1 sq.in. of filter surface area, it would have the same flow restriction as a 100 micron filter with 10 sq. in of surface area? So as long as my 100 micron fliter was rated to flow as much or more than the 10 micron filter, it should result in no additional strain on the pump.

Sorry, just threw this in for thought.

I run a 10 micron "Pre filter" and a 100 micron before the regulator. And the 100 micron filter is a pretty large unit (8" long, 2" diameter).




Yes, the size of a filter will of coarse increase the numbers of holes which will keep the speed( velocity) of the fuel down and equals in lower pressure over the filter.
If you have a wire mesh filter in SS steel, the diameter of the wire will change how much of the filter area that is open and how much area that are lost with the actual wire material, so the exact same tube of wire mesh can have the same 10 microns( 10 my millimeters) and still have different flow/ pressure numbers.
Inlet size and outlet size and also placement of those will also effect this.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1701831
11/27/14 12:34 PM
11/27/14 12:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
Too Many Posts
Challenger 1  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Quote:

News flash boys... PUMPS DONT SUCK.. atmospheric pressure
PUSHES the fuel into the pump.. the pump creates the
negative pressure(just like the piston does on the
engine).. thats why the pump companies tell you to
go larger on the inlet side..thats also why you dont
put a fine filter on the inlet side





Welcome back...put some venison in the freezer?

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Challenger 1] #1701832
11/27/14 12:46 PM
11/27/14 12:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

Quote:

News flash boys... PUMPS DONT SUCK.. atmospheric pressure
PUSHES the fuel into the pump.. the pump creates the
negative pressure(just like the piston does on the
engine).. thats why the pump companies tell you to
go larger on the inlet side..thats also why you dont
put a fine filter on the inlet side





Welcome back...put some venison in the freezer?




Thanks.. yeah the wife and I both took a 6 point...
I passed on some others.. we have a 12 point running
around but it never came out during the day

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Jerry Kathe] #1701833
11/27/14 01:55 PM
11/27/14 01:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
M
Monte_Smith Offline
master
Monte_Smith  Offline
master
M

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Do what?
You are kidding I hope.




Are you asking me "do what"... and no I'm not kidding





Um......ok....


How about doing a little research before you start blasting someone who has lots of fuel system experience. Mr P is EXACTLY right. Electric pumps are made to PUSH fuel and every company suggests they be gravity fed, but they WILL pull fuel from a dip tube once the siphon effect takes over

Monte

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1701834
11/27/14 02:01 PM
11/27/14 02:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696
jersey
S
Spaceman Spiff Offline
master
Spaceman Spiff  Offline
master
S

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696
jersey
Quote:

News flash boys... PUMPS DONT SUCK.. atmospheric pressure
PUSHES the fuel into the pump.. the pump creates the
negative pressure(just like the piston does on the
engine).. thats why the pump companies tell you to
go larger on the inlet side..thats also why you dont
put a fine filter on the inlet side





So if I mount the pump on top of the tank...it should never push fuel, since atmospheric pressure isn't feeding it right?
Or am I not understanding what you mean?

Last edited by Spaceman Spiff; 11/27/14 02:03 PM.

526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1701835
11/27/14 02:04 PM
11/27/14 02:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
M
MoparBilly Offline
master
MoparBilly  Offline
master
M

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
Years ago we discovered the flow limits of the HPG1 fram filter while running our engine fuel, and nitrous system fuel from the same source.

Now we run the Mallory Comp500. Cannister type dual -8 inlet and outlet which works great with my favorite pump, the Dominator series Volumax 250 georotor which features a dual inlet and single outlet. The Mallory filter is 40 micron. It's an excellent upgrade from the HPG1.

8343496-images.jpg (87 downloads)

"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks" 4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Spaceman Spiff] #1701836
11/27/14 02:06 PM
11/27/14 02:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

Quote:

News flash boys... PUMPS DONT SUCK.. atmospheric pressure
PUSHES the fuel into the pump.. the pump creates the
negative pressure(just like the piston does on the
engine).. thats why the pump companies tell you to
go larger on the inlet side..thats also why you dont
put a fine filter on the inlet side





So if I mount the pump on top of the tank...it should never push fuel, since atmospheric pressure isn't feeding it right?
Or am I not understanding what you mean?




No... you have 14.7 psi pushing on the fuel.. thats
a lot of vertical height
EDIT
when doing fine testing we like to use a measurement
of water(app. 30" of water is 1 psi) so if you turn the
psi into inch of water you an get a idea of the
vertical height... but understand the more you go
vertical the less pressure you have to push in the
fuel.. so it reduces the output

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 11/27/14 02:16 PM.
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1701837
11/27/14 02:18 PM
11/27/14 02:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
astjp2 Offline
master
astjp2  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
27.71" of head pressure = 1 psi of water, gas is almost the same in a car situation. SO if your tank is 14" below the tank, it will need to pull .5 psi to get it to the pump. More math makes the brain hurt....


1941 Taylorcraft
1968 Charger
1994 Wrangler
1998 Wrangler
2008 Kia Rio
2017 Jetta

I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: astjp2] #1701838
11/27/14 02:20 PM
11/27/14 02:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

27.71" of head pressure = 1 psi of water, gas is almost the same in a car situation. SO if your tank is 14" below the tank, it will need to pull .5 psi to get it to the pump. More math makes the brain hurt....




I just use 30" as a quick number so its easy to figure
in my head... most dont give a damn about it

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Spaceman Spiff] #1701839
11/27/14 02:44 PM
11/27/14 02:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
J
Jerry Kathe Offline
enthusiast
Jerry Kathe  Offline
enthusiast
J

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
As I said prior....not going to debate...so I will sign out with a few comments on this, as it has been twisted into a complete fuster cluck.

I didnt blast anyone one......thicken up.
my inputs were based on flow vs filtration aspects.
if you read the comment about pumps dont suck....you will see it contradicts itself.
atmospheric pressure and barometric pressure is the same.......so unless its at the nominal 29.92......it isn't 14.7
But I wouldnt know this since I have never done any research would I Monte?

Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1