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Fuel filter? #1701780
11/22/14 10:13 AM
11/22/14 10:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 512
Illinois
Mopar_Ray Offline OP
mopar
Mopar_Ray  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 512
Illinois
Right now I'm running a Holley black fuel pump and a Fram HPG1 filter between fuel cell and pump. Pump has always been noisy. They say to run a 100 micron filter between cell and pump. The Fram has a 10 micron element. Anyone know if anyone makes a coarser element that fits the HPG1?

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701781
11/22/14 11:52 AM
11/22/14 11:52 AM
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Posts: 632
MD-USA
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Dodgeguy101 Offline
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Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701782
11/22/14 01:19 PM
11/22/14 01:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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Quote:

Right now I'm running a Holley black fuel pump and a Fram HPG1 filter between fuel cell and pump. Pump has always been noisy. They say to run a 100 micron filter between cell and pump. The Fram has a 10 micron element. Anyone know if anyone makes a coarser element that fits the HPG1?




Those filters are no bueno and had issues myself till I installed a sintered stainless cartridge filter before the pump and nothing after..............not one related fuel issue yet.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Thumperdart] #1701783
11/22/14 02:07 PM
11/22/14 02:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 512
Illinois
Mopar_Ray Offline OP
mopar
Mopar_Ray  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 512
Illinois
Quote:

Quote:

Right now I'm running a Holley black fuel pump and a Fram HPG1 filter between fuel cell and pump. Pump has always been noisy. They say to run a 100 micron filter between cell and pump. The Fram has a 10 micron element. Anyone know if anyone makes a coarser element that fits the HPG1?




Those filters are no bueno and had issues myself till I installed a sintered stainless cartridge filter before the pump and nothing after..............not one related fuel issue yet.




I'm thinking going with this...

http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/filters.html
Or losing the filter between cell & pump. All my fuel comes from jugs that I can filter beforehand?

Last edited by Mopar_Ray; 11/22/14 02:10 PM.
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701784
11/22/14 05:06 PM
11/22/14 05:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Go to Summit site and choose fuel and air delevery and then go to the fuel filters I used one of the #10 inline AN fitting filter with a 100 micron stainless, cleanable screen filter on my Duster after I found out I was starving my Magnafuel 275 pump with a 10 micron paper element mounted like yours Many choices on brands and sizes of fuel filters on that site I use to use two of the Fram filters mounted in parelel with two of the Holley 110 GPH blue pumps and two of the Holley fuel pressure regulators up front mounted in parelel, one to each bowl also. I found out I couldn't jet that carb up enough to make my car slow down on the MPH in the 1/4 mile and then switch the pumps to a Mallory 140 GPH pump and filter and had the same problem HP takes fuel at WOT, I hope you have enough Test it by jetting it up at the track, if you can enrichen the mixture up enough to slow the MPH down in the 1/4 mile you have enough fuel delivery, volume If not you don't


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Dodgeguy101] #1701785
11/22/14 07:44 PM
11/22/14 07:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
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Quote:


Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.




don't know whats wrong with your install but those filters work well on my 275gph Magnafuel pump & thats almost double what the little Holley Black delivers. we change the cartridge every season & they look great everytime we pull them.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: rebel] #1701786
11/22/14 11:49 PM
11/22/14 11:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
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Dodgeguy101 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:


Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.




don't know whats wrong with your install but those filters work well on my 275gph Magnafuel pump & thats almost double what the little Holley Black delivers. we change the cartridge every season & they look great everytime we pull them.




I didn't use the fram filter, so don't know if it would have worked or not. Glad yours is working for you.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Dodgeguy101] #1701787
11/23/14 11:35 AM
11/23/14 11:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
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Quote:


Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.




That's BS. That fram filter is made to go after the pump and can easily handle a black pump discharge volume. All filters are made to go after the pump.
Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.
Like Cab said...and you the OP know now.

Use a AN fitting in the tank with a cone shaped stainless strainer built in and no other restrictions before the pump.
Only a strainer with 100 micron screen or courser should be in front of the pump. Even a strainer housing creates turbulence in the fuel flow which can cause cavitation. And the inlet plumbing to the pump should be larger than the discharge plumbing with very little restrictions(like least amount of 90, 45s and no filters)

The reason pumps are noisy is because they are screaming for help, cavatating there brains out and dieing a slow death. Warmer the weather get's, the more important that the fuel inlet plumbing is right.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Challenger 1] #1701788
11/23/14 02:04 PM
11/23/14 02:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082
St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar Offline
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Quote:


Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.





So the filter goes after the pump ?
Thanks , but I'll take This advice
http://www.chucknuytten.com/Fuel%20Systems/Diagrams/PlumbChart.html

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: tubtar] #1701789
11/23/14 04:16 PM
11/23/14 04:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Quote:

Quote:


Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.





So the filter goes after the pump ?
Thanks , but I'll take This advice
http://www.chucknuytten.com/Fuel%20Systems/Diagrams/PlumbChart.html


I plumb my cars like that but I do use a 10 micron fliter in line between the pump and the regulator also


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1701790
11/23/14 04:39 PM
11/23/14 04:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Monte_Smith Offline
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North Alabama
You should NEVER use a 10 micron filter BEFORE the pump. Too fine and works the pump to death. Most pump makers suggest a screen only or no finer filter than 40 microns BEFORE the pump and a 10 micron AFTER pump.

Monte

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701791
11/23/14 05:40 PM
11/23/14 05:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,531
Jacksonville, FL
Chris2581 Offline
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Jacksonville, FL
We have used that same Fram filter on 2 different cars (after the pump) with blue Holley pumps with no problem.Plenty of fuel.


Nautilus Racing-
We use Superformance gaskets and Turbo Action converters/products.
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Monte_Smith] #1701792
11/23/14 09:04 PM
11/23/14 09:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Quote:

You should NEVER use a 10 micron filter BEFORE the pump. Too fine and works the pump to death. Most pump makers suggest a screen only or no finer filter than 40 microns BEFORE the pump and a 10 micron AFTER pump.

Monte


It amazes me when you call the part maker how much pain and agony they can save you if you ask them for the best part combinations to use with thier products It pays to ask Some of us take longer to get smart than others


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701793
11/23/14 10:45 PM
11/23/14 10:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
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Jerry Kathe Offline
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OK...you asked. Not going to debate this one either .....but.....micron rating has absolutely nothing to due with flow capabilities when discussing fluids with the viscosity levels of fuel.

Micron rating with filters is referring to particulate size its capable of trapping.....and with fuel the smaller the number the better......and before the pump....no true racing quality level of electric fuel pump will make debris.

Not looking for a rumble....only trying to help. If I wasn't kicked back on vacation right now....I would probably not have bothered as I know this will stir the key board warriors


Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Jerry Kathe] #1701794
11/24/14 06:42 AM
11/24/14 06:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 733
jacksonville,FLORIDA
slammedR/T Offline
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jacksonville,FLORIDA
Quote:

OK...you asked. Not going to debate this one either .....but.....micron rating has absolutely nothing to due with flow capabilities when discussing fluids with the viscosity levels of fuel.

Micron rating with filters is referring to particulate size its capable of trapping.....and with fuel the smaller the number the better......and before the pump....no true racing quality level of electric fuel pump will make debris.

Not looking for a rumble....only trying to help. If I wasn't kicked back on vacation right now....I would probably not have bothered as I know this will stir the key board warriors







fuel filter FACTS!


From Magne Fuel website support section;
Should you use a fuel filter?
All fuel systems are dirty and need to use a filter in the system. The filter should be located on the suction side (between tank and pump) of the pump. The filter cartridge is washable. Replacements are available.

Last edited by slammedR/T; 11/24/14 06:48 AM.

2000 Dakota R/T, 408 magnum, 727, Indy heads
1000cfm 4150 carb, 93 octane fuel.
motor; 10.258 @ 132.78
200 shot; 9.262 @ 144.69
racemagnum
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Jerry Kathe] #1701795
11/24/14 06:54 AM
11/24/14 06:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
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Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
Quote:

OK...you asked. Not going to debate this one either .....but.....micron rating has absolutely nothing to due with flow capabilities when discussing fluids with the viscosity levels of fuel.

Micron rating with filters is referring to particulate size its capable of trapping.....and with fuel the smaller the number the better......and before the pump....no true racing quality level of electric fuel pump will make debris.

Not looking for a rumble....only trying to help. If I wasn't kicked back on vacation right now....I would probably not have bothered as I know this will stir the key board warriors






buy this man a beer

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Challenger 1] #1701796
11/24/14 09:28 AM
11/24/14 09:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
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Dodgeguy101 Offline
mopar
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MD-USA
Quote:

Quote:


Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.




That's BS. That fram filter is made to go after the pump and can easily handle a black pump discharge volume. All filters are made to go after the pump.
Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.
Like Cab said...and you know now.

Use a AN fitting in the tank with a cone shaped stainless strainer built in and no other restrictions before the pump.
Only a strainer with 100 micron screen or courser should be in front of the pump. Even a strainer housing creates turbulence in the fuel flow. And the inlet plumbing to the pump should be larger than the discharge plumbing with very little restrictions(like least amount of 90, 45s and no filters)

The reason pumps are noisy is because they are screaming for help, cavatating there brains out and dieing a slow death. Warmer the weather get's, the more important that the fuel inlet plumbing is right.




Next time I have a question, I wont call anyone but you, because you seem to be a know it all. This kind of an answer is exactly why people don't say anything anymore or offer advice. You have no idea what fuel system is on my car.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701797
11/24/14 10:56 AM
11/24/14 10:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,851
United Socialist States of Ame...
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tboomer Offline
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Posts: 25,851
United Socialist States of Ame...
Ray...Here is my real world experience. I had that same Fram filter on my 64 when it was running a single Holley blue pump. No problems. Switched to the Firecore 140 pump and had cavitation. Changed the Fram out for a Holley black filter and no more problems. Both filters were before the pump. My car has gone 10.15 with the 140 Firecore. Hope this helps you. Ted


The end is near.....
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Challenger 1] #1701798
11/24/14 01:06 PM
11/24/14 01:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
T
Thumperdart Offline
I Live Here
Thumperdart  Offline
I Live Here
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
Quote:

Quote:


Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.




That's BS. That fram filter is made to go after the pump and can easily handle a black pump discharge volume. All filters are made to go after the pump.
Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.
Like Cab said...and you know now.

Use a AN fitting in the tank with a cone shaped stainless strainer built in and no other restrictions before the pump.
Only a strainer with 100 micron screen or courser should be in front of the pump. Even a strainer housing creates turbulence in the fuel flow. And the inlet plumbing to the pump should be larger than the discharge plumbing with very little restrictions(like least amount of 90, 45s and no filters)

The reason pumps are noisy is because they are screaming for help, cavatating there brains out and dieing a slow death. Warmer the weather get's, the more important that the fuel inlet plumbing is right.





Think you`ve got it backwards here................100 BEFORE 40 AFTER at least sez the baddest pump builders/designers around. I used one of the Earls flat screen filters and watched my pressure drop to zero as I pressed the gas then back to 6 1/2 when released........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Thumperdart] #1701799
11/24/14 03:58 PM
11/24/14 03:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Monte_Smith Offline
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Monte_Smith  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Wow..........some guys get worked up over stuff that is just brutally simple...........You take two IDENTICAL filter housings, one has a 100 micron element, one has a 10 micron. The latter WILL be more restrictive, because it is finer.

Soooo, you put the 100 micron before the pump, to basically keep large debris out of the pump. Then you put the smaller one AFTER the pump, to catch what the first one did not and the small debris the pump itself makes. Because AFTER the pump, we have items that are MORE sensitive to small debris than the pump itself. Oh, I don't know, like maybe regulators, injectors or needle and seats.

AS far as those FRAM filters, they are pretty restrictive. They are rated in GPH of flow, but can't remember what that is. Also they are paper element filters and also many guys plumbing is not up to snuff. So you add up a couple of these and you get a pump starving for fuel.

Monte

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