|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Dodgeguy101]
#1701785
11/22/14 07:44 PM
11/22/14 07:44 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
rebel
master
|
master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
|
Quote:
Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.
don't know whats wrong with your install but those filters work well on my 275gph Magnafuel pump & thats almost double what the little Holley Black delivers. we change the cartridge every season & they look great everytime we pull them.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: rebel]
#1701786
11/22/14 11:49 PM
11/22/14 11:49 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
Dodgeguy101
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
|
Quote:
Quote:
Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.
don't know whats wrong with your install but those filters work well on my 275gph Magnafuel pump & thats almost double what the little Holley Black delivers. we change the cartridge every season & they look great everytime we pull them.
I didn't use the fram filter, so don't know if it would have worked or not. Glad yours is working for you.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Dodgeguy101]
#1701787
11/23/14 11:35 AM
11/23/14 11:35 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
|
Quote:
Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.
That's BS. That fram filter is made to go after the pump and can easily handle a black pump discharge volume. All filters are made to go after the pump.
Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.
Like Cab said...and you the OP know now.
Use a AN fitting in the tank with a cone shaped stainless strainer built in and no other restrictions before the pump.
Only a strainer with 100 micron screen or courser should be in front of the pump. Even a strainer housing creates turbulence in the fuel flow which can cause cavitation. And the inlet plumbing to the pump should be larger than the discharge plumbing with very little restrictions(like least amount of 90, 45s and no filters)
The reason pumps are noisy is because they are screaming for help, cavatating there brains out and dieing a slow death. Warmer the weather get's, the more important that the fuel inlet plumbing is right.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Mopar_Ray]
#1701791
11/23/14 05:40 PM
11/23/14 05:40 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,531
Jacksonville, FL
Chris2581
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,531
Jacksonville, FL
|
We have used that same Fram filter on 2 different cars (after the pump) with blue Holley pumps with no problem.Plenty of fuel.
Nautilus Racing-
We use Superformance gaskets and Turbo Action converters/products.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Jerry Kathe]
#1701795
11/24/14 06:54 AM
11/24/14 06:54 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
rebel
master
|
master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
|
Quote:
OK...you asked. Not going to debate this one either  .....but.....micron rating has absolutely nothing to due with flow capabilities when discussing fluids with the viscosity levels of fuel.
Micron rating with filters is referring to particulate size its capable of trapping.....and with fuel the smaller the number the better......and before the pump....no true racing quality level of electric fuel pump will make debris.
Not looking for a rumble....only trying to help. If I wasn't kicked back on vacation right now....I would probably not have bothered as I know this will stir the key board warriors
buy this man a beer
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1701796
11/24/14 09:28 AM
11/24/14 09:28 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
Dodgeguy101
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
|
Quote:
Quote:
Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.
That's BS. That fram filter is made to go after the pump and can easily handle a black pump discharge volume. All filters are made to go after the pump.
Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.
Like Cab said...and you know now.
Use a AN fitting in the tank with a cone shaped stainless strainer built in and no other restrictions before the pump.
Only a strainer with 100 micron screen or courser should be in front of the pump. Even a strainer housing creates turbulence in the fuel flow. And the inlet plumbing to the pump should be larger than the discharge plumbing with very little restrictions(like least amount of 90, 45s and no filters)
The reason pumps are noisy is because they are screaming for help, cavatating there brains out and dieing a slow death. Warmer the weather get's, the more important that the fuel inlet plumbing is right.
Next time I have a question, I wont call anyone but you, because you seem to be a know it all. This kind of an answer is exactly why people don't say anything anymore or offer advice. You have no idea what fuel system is on my car.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1701799
11/24/14 03:58 PM
11/24/14 03:58 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
|
Wow..........some guys get worked up over stuff that is just brutally simple...........You take two IDENTICAL filter housings, one has a 100 micron element, one has a 10 micron. The latter WILL be more restrictive, because it is finer.
Soooo, you put the 100 micron before the pump, to basically keep large debris out of the pump. Then you put the smaller one AFTER the pump, to catch what the first one did not and the small debris the pump itself makes. Because AFTER the pump, we have items that are MORE sensitive to small debris than the pump itself. Oh, I don't know, like maybe regulators, injectors or needle and seats.
AS far as those FRAM filters, they are pretty restrictive. They are rated in GPH of flow, but can't remember what that is. Also they are paper element filters and also many guys plumbing is not up to snuff. So you add up a couple of these and you get a pump starving for fuel.
Monte
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: 383man]
#1701801
11/25/14 12:04 AM
11/25/14 12:04 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,123
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,123
Bend,OR USA
|
I was told years ago a Micron was one millionth of a inch, not sure if the was a sqaue inch, cubic inch or linear inch  Way smaller than the average eyes can see  I ended up using a #10 combination fuel shut off and in line fuel fiter that was rated at 80 micron on my Duster between the pump and the gas tank sump, I should have bought the 100 micron size according to Mganafuel  My new car will have that size filter rating in a 12 AN in line fuel filter with as much surface area and as long as I can get it  I put the Duster together with a BG 500 in line fuel filter, it had a 10 micron fuel filter in it and it did starve the Magnafuuel 275 pump I bought new for that car   Live and learn
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: markz528]
#1701803
11/25/14 11:34 AM
11/25/14 11:34 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 361
Canada
onig
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 361
Canada
|
1 micron = .000,039,37"
10 micron = .000,393,7"
100 micron = .003,937"
1 micron = 1 millionth of a Meter
69 Dart
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Dodgeguy101]
#1701804
11/25/14 11:42 AM
11/25/14 11:42 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.
That's BS. That fram filter is made to go after the pump and can easily handle a black pump discharge volume. All filters are made to go after the pump.
Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.
Like Cab said...and you know now.
Use a AN fitting in the tank with a cone shaped stainless strainer built in and no other restrictions before the pump.
Only a strainer with 100 micron screen or courser should be in front of the pump. Even a strainer housing creates turbulence in the fuel flow. And the inlet plumbing to the pump should be larger than the discharge plumbing with very little restrictions(like least amount of 90, 45s and no filters)
The reason pumps are noisy is because they are screaming for help, cavatating there brains out and dieing a slow death. Warmer the weather get's, the more important that the fuel inlet plumbing is right.
Next time I have a question, I wont call anyone but you, because you seem to be a know it all. This kind of an answer is exactly why people don't say anything anymore or offer advice. You have no idea what fuel system is on my car.
Well I seem to be the fastest and quickest guy on this board and have built 6 real fast cars including the fuel systems. How fast have you gone with your fuel system?
I know my way around fuel since I have been in the fuel business for over 30 years now.
And I didn't post anything backwards or wrong above.
It don't matter what kind of car you have, fuel basics apply to every car.
\
Lastly I don't consider a strainer to be a filter, it's a strainer to protect the pump. The filter which is finer goes after the pump to protect everything after the pump.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1701805
11/25/14 12:58 PM
11/25/14 12:58 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
Jerry Kathe
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
|
Well I seem to be the fastest and quickest guy on this board and have built 6 real fast cars including the fuel systems. How fast have you gone with your fuel system?
I know my way around fuel since I have been in the fuel business for over 30
And I didn't post anything backwards or wrong above.
It don't matter what kind of car you have, fuel basics apply to every car.
Lastly I don't consider a strainer to be a filter, it's a strainer to protect the pump. The filter which is finer goes after the pump to protect everything after the pump.
Thanks for making me spew coffee all over my screen - 
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Jerry Kathe]
#1701806
11/25/14 01:15 PM
11/25/14 01:15 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
|
Quote:
OK...you asked. Not going to debate this one either .....but.....micron rating has absolutely nothing to due with flow capabilities when discussing fluids with the viscosity levels of fuel.
Micron rating with filters is referring to particulate size its capable of trapping.....and with fuel the smaller the number the better......and before the pump....no true racing quality level of electric fuel pump will make debris.
Not looking for a rumble....only trying to help. If I wasn't kicked back on vacation right now....I would probably not have bothered as I know this will stir the key board warriors
This post really tells me you do not know fuel pump plumbing. Ever heard of cavitation? 
Can you show us where any fuel pump manufacturer says to use a filter with "the smaller the number the better......and before the pump" filter?
They all say strainer or screen element.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Jerry Kathe]
#1701808
11/25/14 01:53 PM
11/25/14 01:53 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
|
Quote:
I have no interest in persuading anyone of anything. I attempt to clairify my statements are that of my opinion.
My opinion is based on my experience.
I havent spent money on HP in quite some time....largely because I dont care about being the fastest or quickest at the track or on some technical forums. But might I suggest not undermining someone's/anyone's knowledge by how much money they spend.
I will throw this out there....go visit the pro stockers camps and tell anyone of them they are doing it all wrong with their fuel system configurations.
I don't have to visit pro stocks, because all 6 of my cars are were faster than pro stocks. I move more fuel than they do. And I still have 2 cars and 2 BAE hemis 6' behind me right now.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1701810
11/25/14 02:23 PM
11/25/14 02:23 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,616
Riverside, Ca
G_bob
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,616
Riverside, Ca
|
Quote:
I have the quickest and fastest car on my street.............PERIOD.........AND I plumb my own fuel system all by myself and even read the directions...
Hey, same here, but play the bagpipes instead of drums. 
I used RobbMc 40's before and after the pump based on his directions.
"40 Micron Filters -
Designed for use as prefilters for gerotor style electric fuel pumps. Also used to filter fuel before it enters the carb."
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Mopar_Ray]
#1701813
11/25/14 03:39 PM
11/25/14 03:39 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443
Indiana
YO7_A66
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443
Indiana
|
Reference from the back of the Holley fuel filter packaging.
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Dodgeguy101]
#1701814
11/25/14 04:22 PM
11/25/14 04:22 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.
That's BS. That fram filter is made to go after the pump and can easily handle a black pump discharge volume. All filters are made to go after the pump.
Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.
Like Cab said...and you know now.
Use a AN fitting in the tank with a cone shaped stainless strainer built in and no other restrictions before the pump.
Only a strainer with 100 micron screen or courser should be in front of the pump. Even a strainer housing creates turbulence in the fuel flow. And the inlet plumbing to the pump should be larger than the discharge plumbing with very little restrictions(like least amount of 90, 45s and no filters)
The reason pumps are noisy is because they are screaming for help, cavatating there brains out and dieing a slow death. Warmer the weather get's, the more important that the fuel inlet plumbing is right.
Next time I have a question, I wont call anyone but you, because you seem to be a know it all. This kind of an answer is exactly why people don't say anything anymore or offer advice. You have no idea what fuel system is on my car.
The reason people like me don't answer questions is because of people like you.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: RT540]
#1701816
11/26/14 12:45 AM
11/26/14 12:45 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 515
geezer acres rest home
dakotawilly
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 515
geezer acres rest home
|
my pro stock coffee maker pumps .7 gpm.now if i put the filter before the pump,i will have to invest in toothpics to retrieve the coffee grounds from my teeth.so ill just keep the filter after the pump.and may even send it over to monte to have it plumbed for nitrous to make my mornings even brighter....
SFI 25.5 depends,no leak,even at 213 mph....
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1701817
11/26/14 01:47 AM
11/26/14 01:47 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
|
Boy do I feel like a geek  I think I might just switch the positions and clip my ET from 10.91 to maybe 10.50 I thought I was doing pretty good with a 3600# car and 3.54 gears  I'll change it tomorrow and wait unti spring and try it out. Thanks Gus 
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1701819
11/26/14 08:00 PM
11/26/14 08:00 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,531
Jacksonville, FL
Chris2581
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,531
Jacksonville, FL
|
1970-71 Pro Stock cars were running 9's with pumps and filters that alot of people say are no good today.
Nautilus Racing-
We use Superformance gaskets and Turbo Action converters/products.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Mopar_Ray]
#1701821
11/27/14 12:55 AM
11/27/14 12:55 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,586
Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana
ProStDodge
master
|
master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,586
Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana
|
Won't it make sense that a finer filter would create more resistance to flow per given area, but increasing the surface area of the finer filter would result in the same resistance? In other words if I have a 10 micron filter with 1 sq.in. of filter surface area, it would have the same flow restriction as a 100 micron filter with 10 sq. in of surface area? So as long as my 100 micron fliter was rated to flow as much or more than the 10 micron filter, it should result in no additional strain on the pump.
Sorry, just threw this in for thought.
I run a 10 micron "Pre filter" and a 100 micron before the regulator. And the 100 micron filter is a pretty large unit (8" long, 2" diameter).
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: ProStDodge]
#1701822
11/27/14 02:25 AM
11/27/14 02:25 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
Jerry Kathe
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
|
Quote:
Won't it make sense that a finer filter would create more resistance to flow per given area, but increasing the surface area of the finer filter would result in the same resistance? In other words if I have a 10 micron filter with 1 sq.in. of filter surface area, it would have the same flow restriction as a 100 micron filter with 10 sq. in of surface area? So as long as my 100 micron fliter was rated to flow as much or more than the 10 micron filter, it should result in no additional strain on the pump.
Its apears you understand that filtration and flow are two seperate values...but you have your numbers backwards.
All the same, you are much further along with
understanding this some.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: ProStDodge]
#1701823
11/27/14 02:29 AM
11/27/14 02:29 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
News flash boys... PUMPS DONT SUCK.. atmospheric pressure PUSHES the fuel into the pump.. the pump creates the negative pressure(just like the piston does on the engine).. thats why the pump companies tell you to go larger on the inlet side..thats also why you dont put a fine filter on the inlet side
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Jerry Kathe]
#1701825
11/27/14 03:20 AM
11/27/14 03:20 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
Quote:
Do what?
You are kidding I hope.
Are you asking me "do what"... and no I'm not kidding
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1701826
11/27/14 03:24 AM
11/27/14 03:24 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
Jerry Kathe
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
|
Quote:
Quote:
Do what?
You are kidding I hope.
Are you asking me "do what"... and no I'm not kidding
Um......ok.... 
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Jerry Kathe]
#1701827
11/27/14 03:32 AM
11/27/14 03:32 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Do what?
You are kidding I hope.
Are you asking me "do what"... and no I'm not kidding
Um......ok....
I have a few years flowing pumps... if you dont think
its atmospheric pressure try this.. get your biggest
and baddest pump and flow it.. then apply a vac to
the tank.. I'll bet you see the flow drop with the
vac... I tested pumps a long time and did all sorts
of tests... the same thing happens when you apply a
vac to the oil pan.. the pump put put drops
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: ProStDodge]
#1701830
11/27/14 04:38 AM
11/27/14 04:38 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,664
North Sweden
RT540
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,664
North Sweden
|
Quote:
Won't it make sense that a finer filter would create more resistance to flow per given area, but increasing the surface area of the finer filter would result in the same resistance? In other words if I have a 10 micron filter with 1 sq.in. of filter surface area, it would have the same flow restriction as a 100 micron filter with 10 sq. in of surface area? So as long as my 100 micron fliter was rated to flow as much or more than the 10 micron filter, it should result in no additional strain on the pump.
Sorry, just threw this in for thought.
I run a 10 micron "Pre filter" and a 100 micron before the regulator. And the 100 micron filter is a pretty large unit (8" long, 2" diameter).
Yes, the size of a filter will of coarse increase the numbers of holes which will keep the speed( velocity) of the fuel down and equals in lower pressure over the filter.
If you have a wire mesh filter in SS steel, the diameter of the wire will change how much of the filter area that is open and how much area that are lost with the actual wire material, so the exact same tube of wire mesh can have the same 10 microns( 10 my millimeters) and still have different flow/ pressure numbers.
Inlet size and outlet size and also placement of those will also effect this.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1701831
11/27/14 12:34 PM
11/27/14 12:34 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
|
Quote:
News flash boys... PUMPS DONT SUCK.. atmospheric pressure
PUSHES the fuel into the pump.. the pump creates the
negative pressure(just like the piston does on the
engine).. thats why the pump companies tell you to
go larger on the inlet side..thats also why you dont
put a fine filter on the inlet side
Welcome back...put some venison in the freezer? 
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1701832
11/27/14 12:46 PM
11/27/14 12:46 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
Quote:
Quote:
News flash boys... PUMPS DONT SUCK.. atmospheric pressure
PUSHES the fuel into the pump.. the pump creates the
negative pressure(just like the piston does on the
engine).. thats why the pump companies tell you to
go larger on the inlet side..thats also why you dont
put a fine filter on the inlet side
Welcome back...put some venison in the freezer?
Thanks.. yeah the wife and I both took a 6 point...
I passed on some others.. we have a 12 point running
around but it never came out during the day
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Jerry Kathe]
#1701833
11/27/14 01:55 PM
11/27/14 01:55 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Do what?
You are kidding I hope.
Are you asking me "do what"... and no I'm not kidding
Um......ok....
How about doing a little research before you start blasting someone who has lots of fuel system experience. Mr P is EXACTLY right. Electric pumps are made to PUSH fuel and every company suggests they be gravity fed, but they WILL pull fuel from a dip tube once the siphon effect takes over
Monte
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1701835
11/27/14 02:04 PM
11/27/14 02:04 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
MoparBilly
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
|
Years ago we discovered the flow limits of the HPG1 fram filter while running our engine fuel, and nitrous system fuel from the same source.
Now we run the Mallory Comp500. Cannister type dual -8 inlet and outlet which works great with my favorite pump, the Dominator series Volumax 250 georotor which features a dual inlet and single outlet. The Mallory filter is 40 micron. It's an excellent upgrade from the HPG1.
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1701837
11/27/14 02:18 PM
11/27/14 02:18 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
astjp2
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
|
27.71" of head pressure = 1 psi of water, gas is almost the same in a car situation. SO if your tank is 14" below the tank, it will need to pull .5 psi to get it to the pump. More math makes the brain hurt....
1941 Taylorcraft
1968 Charger
1994 Wrangler
1998 Wrangler
2008 Kia Rio
2017 Jetta
I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: astjp2]
#1701838
11/27/14 02:20 PM
11/27/14 02:20 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
Quote:
27.71" of head pressure = 1 psi of water, gas is almost the same in a car situation. SO if your tank is 14" below the tank, it will need to pull .5 psi to get it to the pump. More math makes the brain hurt....
I just use 30" as a quick number so its easy to figure
in my head... most dont give a damn about it
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: G_bob]
#1701841
11/27/14 05:55 PM
11/27/14 05:55 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
|
Quote:
Well, I'm no expert, and I don't even play one on TV, so I try to do as Monte recommends.
Quote:
This thread reminds me of one of my favorite statements over the years........."common sense just ain't all that common"...........LOL!!!
And here is a thought for some........how about check with the company that YOU bought YOUR fuel pump from and see what THEY say............and then refer to first paragraph........LOL!
Monte
So, I spoke with the guy who designed my filters AND was an engineer with the company that made my fuel pump.
So, with his recommendation of filters for my style of pump...
"40 Micron Filters
Designed for use as prefilters for gerotor style electric fuel pumps. Also used to filter fuel before it enters the carb."
I did it this way. Only been 9.92 @ 135.
There should be hose between the filters and the pump. The filter's should not be mounted solid to the pump.
Because the way it is now, vibration is transferred directly to the filter housings. Mounted ridged that way can lift the filter cartridge inside, off of there spring loaded seats under extreme vibration like during tire shake after a burnout. Plus good tire shake could crack those filters off the pump. Or in a accident those filters mounted that way will break off a lot easier than hose will. There's no support for the filters and there needs to be. The filter should be mounted to the car with rubber lined clamps.
If you used a strainer discharge fitting in your fuel tank you could get rid of one of those big ole housings(which is good, big is good in filters) and save weight and space. Plus having the strainer housing so close to the inlet of the pump can cause cavitation. I could go on, but I won't.
Just trying to help.
Happy Thanksgiving.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Polarapete]
#1701843
11/27/14 09:40 PM
11/27/14 09:40 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
|
So what have we learned so far from the useable information 1.Some type of wire mesh strainer in line between cell and pump. 2.Size of micron is still under debate. 3.Paper elements don't seem to be too popular. 4.One guy that thinks I'm a "geek" is concerned about mounting a filter directly to the pump Now I have seen some high end pumps with the filter mated to a common base with the pump 5.Most agree that a filter after the pump is a good idea. Now I'm pretty sure that those fused brass ball filters and the single disc type filters are not considered "high performance" enough for the OP's application. Anyone else learn anything constructive by reading this thread? Just add to the list Now I've been considering mounting a pump in the tank with a sock type strainer on the inlet and an inline filter about a foot from the outlet. I found this to be a very good read. Linky: http://www.skspeed.com/p.aspx?u=Fuel%20FiltersGus
Last edited by fourgearsavoy; 11/27/14 09:50 PM.
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#1701844
11/27/14 11:03 PM
11/27/14 11:03 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
CHAPPER
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
|
Quote:
So what have we learned so far from the useable information
1.Some type of wire mesh strainer in line between cell and pump.
2.Size of micron is still under debate.
3.Paper elements don't seem to be too popular.
4.One guy that thinks I'm a "geek" is concerned about mounting a filter directly to the pump Now I have seen some high end pumps with the filter mated to a common base with the pump
5.Most agree that a filter after the pump is a good idea.
Now I'm pretty sure that those fused brass ball filters and the single disc type filters are not considered "high performance" enough for the OP's application.
Anyone else learn anything constructive by reading this thread?
Just add to the list
Now I've been considering mounting a pump in the tank with a sock type strainer on the inlet and an inline filter about a foot from the outlet.
I found this to be a very good read. Linky: http://www.skspeed.com/p.aspx?u=Fuel%20Filters
Gus
I learned that this thread was similar/typical of all other threads,,,,'no matter what the topic, there WILL be an argument'.
If you like drag racing, support your local track.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: CHAPPER]
#1701845
11/28/14 05:23 PM
11/28/14 05:23 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,123
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,123
Bend,OR USA
|
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 11/28/14 05:30 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1701848
11/28/14 07:11 PM
11/28/14 07:11 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
|
Since it's show off and tell time. I built this entire car except for the chassis in 1993. It's a 632" big chief pontiac in a Donovan block/shorty PG/9". Trick 2 piece dragster dry sump pan. Went 6.90s without the nitrous. This is the 3rd dragster that I built myself and it is NOT one of the 6 top alcohol dragsters that I built. It has a belt driven fuel pump on alcohol and had a separate holley blue pump and tank with gasoline for the nitrous system all in a dragster. I did all the work, built the motor, trans, rear end, wired and plumbed every piece myself. I also tuned and drove them. I also won races with this car and qualified #1 at every race one year, 8 of them. Ran super quick with it. Had to run 450s with it, which it would do every run on motor only.  Used a very basic microprocessor to pulse the nitrous solenoids. That's why there's 2 solenoids in series, one was a safety. Tons of wiring, diodes across the coils to protect the controller and relays for the solenoids.  Then I went from quick 8 cars to top alcohol dragsters. Same deal I built every piece of the car except the chassis. I did 99% of the tuning but did get help from Tom Conway at some races.  Better know your fuel system otherwise you will burn up/torch your motor in under 3 seconds under power, I've done it. I had 6 guys working for me and had a nice sponsor to help with the cost. Red car is me. I ended it, the racing. Had a sponsor who wanted to double his budget with me, wanted more races from me for the next year. I decided to take a year off since it wasn't fun anymore. We won best appearing crew at our last race with new uniforms. I may go back someday, I still own a lot of equipment to race. I burned no bridges, were all still friends including the sponsor. These pictures was not the last race.  
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#1701849
11/28/14 09:13 PM
11/28/14 09:13 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
|
Quote:
Boy do I feel like a geek I think I might just switch the positions and clip my ET from 10.91 to maybe 10.50 I thought I was doing pretty good with a 3600# car and 3.54 gears I'll change it tomorrow and wait unti spring and try it out.
Thanks
Gus
Nothing personal, maybe my slang shouldn't be so sharp?
That street low pressure pump can tolerate that filter just fine most of the time except when it get's real hot out, then you might have trouble?
I wouldn't change it unless your already doing something there, plus you have it plumbed with over sized line which helps a lot and is good. Honestly I think that setup is OK. But don't like aluminum line for a street car.
It's when you use a hi pressure pump like a holley blue pump and up is when you have to be more careful with inlet plumbing. Outlet size and filter placement really don't matter and does not have to be huge like the inlet should be.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel filter?
[Re: Mopar_Ray]
#1701852
11/29/14 05:22 PM
11/29/14 05:22 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
|
Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
|
Quote:
Thanks for all the ideas. I'm going to replace the Fram filter with a 100 micron stainless inline filter, and bigger hose Between the fuel cell and pump. My fuel cell has two -8 outlets, so I'm thinking of using both outlets with -8 lines to a Y fitting with a -10 outlet to filter then to pump. The Holley black pump only has 3/8" inlet and outlets? I'll run a finer inline filter after the pump. Let me know if you see any problems.
That will work
|
|
|
|
|
I used one of the #10 inline AN fitting filter with a 100 micron stainless, cleanable screen filter on my Duster after I found out I was starving my Magnafuel 275 pump with a 10 micron paper element mounted like yours 
Many choices on brands and sizes of fuel filters on that site 
It amazes me when you call the part maker how much pain and agony they can save you if you ask them for the best part combinations to use with thier products 
Some of us take longer to get smart than others 
All kidding aside those 90 GPH Fram filters do have two ninety degree turns inside of them 
You sure you got all those hooked up right?? 
