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Fuel filter? #1701780
11/22/14 10:13 AM
11/22/14 10:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 512
Illinois
Mopar_Ray Offline OP
mopar
Mopar_Ray  Offline OP
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Illinois
Right now I'm running a Holley black fuel pump and a Fram HPG1 filter between fuel cell and pump. Pump has always been noisy. They say to run a 100 micron filter between cell and pump. The Fram has a 10 micron element. Anyone know if anyone makes a coarser element that fits the HPG1?

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701781
11/22/14 11:52 AM
11/22/14 11:52 AM
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Posts: 614
MD-USA
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Dodgeguy101 Offline
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Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701782
11/22/14 01:19 PM
11/22/14 01:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,174
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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Quote:

Right now I'm running a Holley black fuel pump and a Fram HPG1 filter between fuel cell and pump. Pump has always been noisy. They say to run a 100 micron filter between cell and pump. The Fram has a 10 micron element. Anyone know if anyone makes a coarser element that fits the HPG1?




Those filters are no bueno and had issues myself till I installed a sintered stainless cartridge filter before the pump and nothing after..............not one related fuel issue yet.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Thumperdart] #1701783
11/22/14 02:07 PM
11/22/14 02:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 512
Illinois
Mopar_Ray Offline OP
mopar
Mopar_Ray  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 512
Illinois
Quote:

Quote:

Right now I'm running a Holley black fuel pump and a Fram HPG1 filter between fuel cell and pump. Pump has always been noisy. They say to run a 100 micron filter between cell and pump. The Fram has a 10 micron element. Anyone know if anyone makes a coarser element that fits the HPG1?




Those filters are no bueno and had issues myself till I installed a sintered stainless cartridge filter before the pump and nothing after..............not one related fuel issue yet.




I'm thinking going with this...

http://www.robbmcperformance.com/products/filters.html
Or losing the filter between cell & pump. All my fuel comes from jugs that I can filter beforehand?

Last edited by Mopar_Ray; 11/22/14 02:10 PM.
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701784
11/22/14 05:06 PM
11/22/14 05:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 35,731
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Go to Summit site and choose fuel and air delevery and then go to the fuel filters I used one of the #10 inline AN fitting filter with a 100 micron stainless, cleanable screen filter on my Duster after I found out I was starving my Magnafuel 275 pump with a 10 micron paper element mounted like yours Many choices on brands and sizes of fuel filters on that site I use to use two of the Fram filters mounted in parelel with two of the Holley 110 GPH blue pumps and two of the Holley fuel pressure regulators up front mounted in parelel, one to each bowl also. I found out I couldn't jet that carb up enough to make my car slow down on the MPH in the 1/4 mile and then switch the pumps to a Mallory 140 GPH pump and filter and had the same problem HP takes fuel at WOT, I hope you have enough Test it by jetting it up at the track, if you can enrichen the mixture up enough to slow the MPH down in the 1/4 mile you have enough fuel delivery, volume If not you don't


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Dodgeguy101] #1701785
11/22/14 07:44 PM
11/22/14 07:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,382
aotearoa
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Quote:


Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.




don't know whats wrong with your install but those filters work well on my 275gph Magnafuel pump & thats almost double what the little Holley Black delivers. we change the cartridge every season & they look great everytime we pull them.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: rebel] #1701786
11/22/14 11:49 PM
11/22/14 11:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 614
MD-USA
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Dodgeguy101 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:


Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.




don't know whats wrong with your install but those filters work well on my 275gph Magnafuel pump & thats almost double what the little Holley Black delivers. we change the cartridge every season & they look great everytime we pull them.




I didn't use the fram filter, so don't know if it would have worked or not. Glad yours is working for you.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Dodgeguy101] #1701787
11/23/14 11:35 AM
11/23/14 11:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,307
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
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Quote:


Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.




That's BS. That fram filter is made to go after the pump and can easily handle a black pump discharge volume. All filters are made to go after the pump.
Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.
Like Cab said...and you the OP know now.

Use a AN fitting in the tank with a cone shaped stainless strainer built in and no other restrictions before the pump.
Only a strainer with 100 micron screen or courser should be in front of the pump. Even a strainer housing creates turbulence in the fuel flow which can cause cavitation. And the inlet plumbing to the pump should be larger than the discharge plumbing with very little restrictions(like least amount of 90, 45s and no filters)

The reason pumps are noisy is because they are screaming for help, cavatating there brains out and dieing a slow death. Warmer the weather get's, the more important that the fuel inlet plumbing is right.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Challenger 1] #1701788
11/23/14 02:04 PM
11/23/14 02:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,907
St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar Offline
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Quote:


Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.





So the filter goes after the pump ?
Thanks , but I'll take This advice
http://www.chucknuytten.com/Fuel%20Systems/Diagrams/PlumbChart.html

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: tubtar] #1701789
11/23/14 04:16 PM
11/23/14 04:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 35,731
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Quote:

Quote:


Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.





So the filter goes after the pump ?
Thanks , but I'll take This advice
http://www.chucknuytten.com/Fuel%20Systems/Diagrams/PlumbChart.html


I plumb my cars like that but I do use a 10 micron fliter in line between the pump and the regulator also


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1701790
11/23/14 04:39 PM
11/23/14 04:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Monte_Smith Offline
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North Alabama
You should NEVER use a 10 micron filter BEFORE the pump. Too fine and works the pump to death. Most pump makers suggest a screen only or no finer filter than 40 microns BEFORE the pump and a 10 micron AFTER pump.

Monte

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701791
11/23/14 05:40 PM
11/23/14 05:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,531
Jacksonville, FL
Chris2581 Offline
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We have used that same Fram filter on 2 different cars (after the pump) with blue Holley pumps with no problem.Plenty of fuel.


Nautilus Racing-
We use Superformance gaskets and Turbo Action converters/products.
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Monte_Smith] #1701792
11/23/14 09:04 PM
11/23/14 09:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 35,731
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Quote:

You should NEVER use a 10 micron filter BEFORE the pump. Too fine and works the pump to death. Most pump makers suggest a screen only or no finer filter than 40 microns BEFORE the pump and a 10 micron AFTER pump.

Monte


It amazes me when you call the part maker how much pain and agony they can save you if you ask them for the best part combinations to use with thier products It pays to ask Some of us take longer to get smart than others


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701793
11/23/14 10:45 PM
11/23/14 10:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
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Jerry Kathe Offline
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OK...you asked. Not going to debate this one either .....but.....micron rating has absolutely nothing to due with flow capabilities when discussing fluids with the viscosity levels of fuel.

Micron rating with filters is referring to particulate size its capable of trapping.....and with fuel the smaller the number the better......and before the pump....no true racing quality level of electric fuel pump will make debris.

Not looking for a rumble....only trying to help. If I wasn't kicked back on vacation right now....I would probably not have bothered as I know this will stir the key board warriors


Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Jerry Kathe] #1701794
11/24/14 06:42 AM
11/24/14 06:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 733
jacksonville,FLORIDA
slammedR/T Offline
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jacksonville,FLORIDA
Quote:

OK...you asked. Not going to debate this one either .....but.....micron rating has absolutely nothing to due with flow capabilities when discussing fluids with the viscosity levels of fuel.

Micron rating with filters is referring to particulate size its capable of trapping.....and with fuel the smaller the number the better......and before the pump....no true racing quality level of electric fuel pump will make debris.

Not looking for a rumble....only trying to help. If I wasn't kicked back on vacation right now....I would probably not have bothered as I know this will stir the key board warriors







fuel filter FACTS!


From Magne Fuel website support section;
Should you use a fuel filter?
All fuel systems are dirty and need to use a filter in the system. The filter should be located on the suction side (between tank and pump) of the pump. The filter cartridge is washable. Replacements are available.

Last edited by slammedR/T; 11/24/14 06:48 AM.

2000 Dakota R/T, 408 magnum, 727, Indy heads
1000cfm 4150 carb, 93 octane fuel.
motor; 10.258 @ 132.78
200 shot; 9.262 @ 144.69
racemagnum
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Jerry Kathe] #1701795
11/24/14 06:54 AM
11/24/14 06:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,382
aotearoa
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aotearoa
Quote:

OK...you asked. Not going to debate this one either .....but.....micron rating has absolutely nothing to due with flow capabilities when discussing fluids with the viscosity levels of fuel.

Micron rating with filters is referring to particulate size its capable of trapping.....and with fuel the smaller the number the better......and before the pump....no true racing quality level of electric fuel pump will make debris.

Not looking for a rumble....only trying to help. If I wasn't kicked back on vacation right now....I would probably not have bothered as I know this will stir the key board warriors






buy this man a beer

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Challenger 1] #1701796
11/24/14 09:28 AM
11/24/14 09:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 614
MD-USA
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Dodgeguy101 Offline
mopar
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MD-USA
Quote:

Quote:


Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.




That's BS. That fram filter is made to go after the pump and can easily handle a black pump discharge volume. All filters are made to go after the pump.
Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.
Like Cab said...and you know now.

Use a AN fitting in the tank with a cone shaped stainless strainer built in and no other restrictions before the pump.
Only a strainer with 100 micron screen or courser should be in front of the pump. Even a strainer housing creates turbulence in the fuel flow. And the inlet plumbing to the pump should be larger than the discharge plumbing with very little restrictions(like least amount of 90, 45s and no filters)

The reason pumps are noisy is because they are screaming for help, cavatating there brains out and dieing a slow death. Warmer the weather get's, the more important that the fuel inlet plumbing is right.




Next time I have a question, I wont call anyone but you, because you seem to be a know it all. This kind of an answer is exactly why people don't say anything anymore or offer advice. You have no idea what fuel system is on my car.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701797
11/24/14 10:56 AM
11/24/14 10:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 23,097
The frozen wasteland of Iowa
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tboomer Offline
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The frozen wasteland of Iowa
Ray...Here is my real world experience. I had that same Fram filter on my 64 when it was running a single Holley blue pump. No problems. Switched to the Firecore 140 pump and had cavitation. Changed the Fram out for a Holley black filter and no more problems. Both filters were before the pump. My car has gone 10.15 with the 140 Firecore. Hope this helps you. Ted


Having the upper hand for almost 20 years!
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Challenger 1] #1701798
11/24/14 01:06 PM
11/24/14 01:06 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,174
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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Thumperdart  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,174
State of confusion
Quote:

Quote:


Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.




That's BS. That fram filter is made to go after the pump and can easily handle a black pump discharge volume. All filters are made to go after the pump.
Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.
Like Cab said...and you know now.

Use a AN fitting in the tank with a cone shaped stainless strainer built in and no other restrictions before the pump.
Only a strainer with 100 micron screen or courser should be in front of the pump. Even a strainer housing creates turbulence in the fuel flow. And the inlet plumbing to the pump should be larger than the discharge plumbing with very little restrictions(like least amount of 90, 45s and no filters)

The reason pumps are noisy is because they are screaming for help, cavatating there brains out and dieing a slow death. Warmer the weather get's, the more important that the fuel inlet plumbing is right.





Think you`ve got it backwards here................100 BEFORE 40 AFTER at least sez the baddest pump builders/designers around. I used one of the Earls flat screen filters and watched my pressure drop to zero as I pressed the gas then back to 6 1/2 when released........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Thumperdart] #1701799
11/24/14 03:58 PM
11/24/14 03:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Monte_Smith Offline
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North Alabama
Wow..........some guys get worked up over stuff that is just brutally simple...........You take two IDENTICAL filter housings, one has a 100 micron element, one has a 10 micron. The latter WILL be more restrictive, because it is finer.

Soooo, you put the 100 micron before the pump, to basically keep large debris out of the pump. Then you put the smaller one AFTER the pump, to catch what the first one did not and the small debris the pump itself makes. Because AFTER the pump, we have items that are MORE sensitive to small debris than the pump itself. Oh, I don't know, like maybe regulators, injectors or needle and seats.

AS far as those FRAM filters, they are pretty restrictive. They are rated in GPH of flow, but can't remember what that is. Also they are paper element filters and also many guys plumbing is not up to snuff. So you add up a couple of these and you get a pump starving for fuel.

Monte

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Monte_Smith] #1701800
11/24/14 11:21 PM
11/24/14 11:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,389
Balt. Md
3
383man Offline
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Posts: 27,389
Balt. Md
I do see one of the Mallory cartrige type fuel fitlers says it's for use between the fuel tank and electric pump and it is 40 microns. Ron

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: 383man] #1701801
11/25/14 12:04 AM
11/25/14 12:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 35,731
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
I was told years ago a Micron was one millionth of a inch, not sure if the was a sqaue inch, cubic inch or linear inch Way smaller than the average eyes can see I ended up using a #10 combination fuel shut off and in line fuel fiter that was rated at 80 micron on my Duster between the pump and the gas tank sump, I should have bought the 100 micron size according to Mganafuel My new car will have that size filter rating in a 12 AN in line fuel filter with as much surface area and as long as I can get it I put the Duster together with a BG 500 in line fuel filter, it had a 10 micron fuel filter in it and it did starve the Magnafuuel 275 pump I bought new for that car Live and learn


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1701802
11/25/14 12:31 AM
11/25/14 12:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,863
Milford, OH
markz528 Offline
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markz528  Offline
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Milford, OH
Quote:

I was told years ago a Micron was one millionth of a inch,




Actually its about 40 millionths of an inch...............


67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 13.300 @ 101.75 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: markz528] #1701803
11/25/14 11:34 AM
11/25/14 11:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 358
Canada
onig Offline
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onig  Offline
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Canada
1 micron = .000,039,37"
10 micron = .000,393,7"
100 micron = .003,937"

1 micron = 1 millionth of a Meter


69 Dart, The BB is now gone, Soon to be Gen 3 Hemi...
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Dodgeguy101] #1701804
11/25/14 11:42 AM
11/25/14 11:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,307
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
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Challenger 1  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,307
Cincinnati, Ohio
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.




That's BS. That fram filter is made to go after the pump and can easily handle a black pump discharge volume. All filters are made to go after the pump.
Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.
Like Cab said...and you know now.

Use a AN fitting in the tank with a cone shaped stainless strainer built in and no other restrictions before the pump.
Only a strainer with 100 micron screen or courser should be in front of the pump. Even a strainer housing creates turbulence in the fuel flow. And the inlet plumbing to the pump should be larger than the discharge plumbing with very little restrictions(like least amount of 90, 45s and no filters)

The reason pumps are noisy is because they are screaming for help, cavatating there brains out and dieing a slow death. Warmer the weather get's, the more important that the fuel inlet plumbing is right.




Next time I have a question, I wont call anyone but you, because you seem to be a know it all. This kind of an answer is exactly why people don't say anything anymore or offer advice. You have no idea what fuel system is on my car.




Well I seem to be the fastest and quickest guy on this board and have built 6 real fast cars including the fuel systems. How fast have you gone with your fuel system?

I know my way around fuel since I have been in the fuel business for over 30 years now.


And I didn't post anything backwards or wrong above.

It don't matter what kind of car you have, fuel basics apply to every car.
\
Lastly I don't consider a strainer to be a filter, it's a strainer to protect the pump. The filter which is finer goes after the pump to protect everything after the pump.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Challenger 1] #1701805
11/25/14 12:58 PM
11/25/14 12:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
J
Jerry Kathe Offline
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Jerry Kathe  Offline
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Posts: 220





Well I seem to be the fastest and quickest guy on this board and have built 6 real fast cars including the fuel systems. How fast have you gone with your fuel system?

I know my way around fuel since I have been in the fuel business for over 30
And I didn't post anything backwards or wrong above.



It don't matter what kind of car you have, fuel basics apply to every car.

Lastly I don't consider a strainer to be a filter, it's a strainer to protect the pump. The filter which is finer goes after the pump to protect everything after the pump.




Thanks for making me spew coffee all over my screen -

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Jerry Kathe] #1701806
11/25/14 01:15 PM
11/25/14 01:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,307
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
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Challenger 1  Offline
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Posts: 28,307
Cincinnati, Ohio
Quote:

OK...you asked. Not going to debate this one either .....but.....micron rating has absolutely nothing to due with flow capabilities when discussing fluids with the viscosity levels of fuel.

Micron rating with filters is referring to particulate size its capable of trapping.....and with fuel the smaller the number the better......and before the pump....no true racing quality level of electric fuel pump will make debris.

Not looking for a rumble....only trying to help. If I wasn't kicked back on vacation right now....I would probably not have bothered as I know this will stir the key board warriors






This post really tells me you do not know fuel pump plumbing. Ever heard of cavitation?

Can you show us where any fuel pump manufacturer says to use a filter with "the smaller the number the better......and before the pump" filter?

They all say strainer or screen element.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Challenger 1] #1701807
11/25/14 01:38 PM
11/25/14 01:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
J
Jerry Kathe Offline
enthusiast
Jerry Kathe  Offline
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J

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
I have no interest in persuading anyone of anything. I attempt to clairify my statements are that of my opinion.
My opinion is based on my experience.

I havent spent money on HP in quite some time....largely because I dont care about being the fastest or quickest at the track or on some technical forums. But might I suggest not undermining someone's/anyone's knowledge by how much money they spend.

I will throw this out there....go visit the pro stockers camps and tell anyone of them they are doing it all wrong with their fuel system configurations.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Jerry Kathe] #1701808
11/25/14 01:53 PM
11/25/14 01:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,307
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
Too Many Posts
Challenger 1  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,307
Cincinnati, Ohio
Quote:

I have no interest in persuading anyone of anything. I attempt to clairify my statements are that of my opinion.
My opinion is based on my experience.

I havent spent money on HP in quite some time....largely because I dont care about being the fastest or quickest at the track or on some technical forums. But might I suggest not undermining someone's/anyone's knowledge by how much money they spend.

I will throw this out there....go visit the pro stockers camps and tell anyone of them they are doing it all wrong with their fuel system configurations.




I don't have to visit pro stocks, because all 6 of my cars are were faster than pro stocks. I move more fuel than they do. And I still have 2 cars and 2 BAE hemis 6' behind me right now.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Challenger 1] #1701809
11/25/14 01:58 PM
11/25/14 01:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,174
State of confusion
T
Thumperdart Offline
I Live Here
Thumperdart  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,174
State of confusion
I have the quickest and fastest car on my street.............PERIOD.........AND I plumb my own fuel system all by myself and even read the directions which said; Quote........." Run a filter before the pump no smaller that 100 microns and a 10-40 after" No flat screen filters but a cannister w/more surface area. Oh, and I do drum solos at the request of the ladies when drinkin..........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Thumperdart] #1701810
11/25/14 02:23 PM
11/25/14 02:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,615
Riverside, Ca
G
G_bob Offline
master
G_bob  Offline
master
G

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,615
Riverside, Ca
Quote:

I have the quickest and fastest car on my street.............PERIOD.........AND I plumb my own fuel system all by myself and even read the directions...



Hey, same here, but play the bagpipes instead of drums.

I used RobbMc 40's before and after the pump based on his directions.

"40 Micron Filters -
Designed for use as prefilters for gerotor style electric fuel pumps. Also used to filter fuel before it enters the carb."

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: G_bob] #1701811
11/25/14 02:54 PM
11/25/14 02:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
M
Monte_Smith Offline
master
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M

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
This thread reminds me of one of my favorite statements over the years........."common sense just ain't all that common"...........LOL!!!

And here is a thought for some........how about check with the company that YOU bought YOUR fuel pump from and see what THEY say............and then refer to first paragraph........LOL!



Monte

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Monte_Smith] #1701812
11/25/14 03:04 PM
11/25/14 03:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,174
State of confusion
T
Thumperdart Offline
I Live Here
Thumperdart  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,174
State of confusion
Quote:

This thread reminds me of one of my favorite statements over the years........."common sense just ain't all that common"...........LOL!!!

And here is a thought for some........how about check with the company that YOU bought YOUR fuel pump from and see what THEY say............and then refer to first paragraph........LOL!



Monte





That`s why I said "I read the directions" which is new for me........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701813
11/25/14 03:39 PM
11/25/14 03:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,324
Indiana
Y
YO7_A66 Offline
master
YO7_A66  Offline
master
Y

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,324
Indiana
Reference from the back of the Holley fuel filter packaging.


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (SL.P. 226/238@.050,270/288 dur,.538"/.528" w/Yella Terra 1.65 rockers, 9.7:1, 63cc Sidewinders (Bowl Ported),RPM intake, QF SS-750 Annular DP, MSD Street Fire Ign., & TTI's. 727/Dynamic 9.5" 3800, TF-2, & 3:91's
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Dodgeguy101] #1701814
11/25/14 04:22 PM
11/25/14 04:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,307
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
Too Many Posts
Challenger 1  Offline
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Posts: 28,307
Cincinnati, Ohio
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Cant remember who I called to ask about that filter, but I was told it couldn't handle the output of that black pump. Get a different filter type. Mine is noisy as well, but I got a good deal on it, so for the time being, its on the car.




That's BS. That fram filter is made to go after the pump and can easily handle a black pump discharge volume. All filters are made to go after the pump.
Please don't be one of those geeks who have the pump and filter hanging out the back of your car for everyone to see with the filter between the tank and pump showing everyone you don't know how to plumb a fuel system.
Like Cab said...and you know now.

Use a AN fitting in the tank with a cone shaped stainless strainer built in and no other restrictions before the pump.
Only a strainer with 100 micron screen or courser should be in front of the pump. Even a strainer housing creates turbulence in the fuel flow. And the inlet plumbing to the pump should be larger than the discharge plumbing with very little restrictions(like least amount of 90, 45s and no filters)

The reason pumps are noisy is because they are screaming for help, cavatating there brains out and dieing a slow death. Warmer the weather get's, the more important that the fuel inlet plumbing is right.




Next time I have a question, I wont call anyone but you, because you seem to be a know it all. This kind of an answer is exactly why people don't say anything anymore or offer advice. You have no idea what fuel system is on my car.




The reason people like me don't answer questions is because of people like you.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Challenger 1] #1701815
11/25/14 05:06 PM
11/25/14 05:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,649
North Sweden
R
RT540 Offline
top fuel
RT540  Offline
top fuel
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,649
North Sweden
Have you tried to close a butterfly valve with a centrifugal pump on the suction side when the pump is running?
Cavitation makes both bad sounds and vibrations.
To many bends and other typer of restrictions are bad for most types of pumps. There are som pumps that work, membran, lobe rotor and excenter screw pumps.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: RT540] #1701816
11/26/14 12:45 AM
11/26/14 12:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 515
geezer acres rest home
D
dakotawilly Offline
mopar
dakotawilly  Offline
mopar
D

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 515
geezer acres rest home
my pro stock coffee maker pumps .7 gpm.now if i put the filter before the pump,i will have to invest in toothpics to retrieve the coffee grounds from my teeth.so ill just keep the filter after the pump.and may even send it over to monte to have it plumbed for nitrous to make my mornings even brighter....


SFI 25.5 depends,no leak,even at 213 mph....
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Challenger 1] #1701817
11/26/14 01:47 AM
11/26/14 01:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,899
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
master
fourgearsavoy  Offline
master

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,899
Rittman Ohio
Boy do I feel like a geek I think I might just switch the positions and clip my ET from 10.91 to maybe 10.50 I thought I was doing pretty good with a 3600# car and 3.54 gears I'll change it tomorrow and wait unti spring and try it out.
Thanks
Gus


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: fourgearsavoy] #1701818
11/26/14 03:27 AM
11/26/14 03:27 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 35,731
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 35,731
Bend,OR USA
Quote:

Boy do I feel like a geek I think I might just switch the positions and clip my ET from 10.91 to maybe 10.50 I thought I was doing pretty good with a 3600# car and 3.54 gears I'll change it tomorrow and wait unti spring and try it out.
Thanks
Gus


Gus, I will betcha you have all the ET and MPH your going to get out of the Carter pump and filter, no matter where you mount that filter All kidding aside those 90 GPH Fram filters do have two ninety degree turns inside of them Changing the location from the inlet to the outlet side of the pump may or any not make any difference to that pump I think those small Carter electric pumps, race or street version, are not rated above 6 lbs of pressure so the suction side is probally not straining real hard to keep the pump in fuel Maybe it is time for a better pump and filter combination


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1701819
11/26/14 08:00 PM
11/26/14 08:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,531
Jacksonville, FL
Chris2581 Offline
master
Chris2581  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,531
Jacksonville, FL
1970-71 Pro Stock cars were running 9's with pumps and filters that alot of people say are no good today.


Nautilus Racing-
We use Superformance gaskets and Turbo Action converters/products.
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1701820
11/26/14 10:25 PM
11/26/14 10:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,899
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
master
fourgearsavoy  Offline
master

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,899
Rittman Ohio
Quote:

Quote:

Boy do I feel like a geek I think I might just switch the positions and clip my ET from 10.91 to maybe 10.50 I thought I was doing pretty good with a 3600# car and 3.54 gears I'll change it tomorrow and wait unti spring and try it out.
Thanks
Gus


Gus, I will betcha you have all the ET and MPH your going to get out of the Carter pump and filter, no matter where you mount that filter All kidding aside those 90 GPH Fram filters do have two ninety degree turns inside of them Changing the location from the inlet to the outlet side of the pump may or any not make any difference to that pump I think those small Carter electric pumps, race or street version, are not rated above 6 lbs of pressure so the suction side is probally not straining real hard to keep the pump in fuel Maybe it is time for a better pump and filter combination



Yeah Cab I know I've pretty much exceeded the limits of that pump even though it's the 14 PSI race unit I'm still pulling hard at the stripe and I'm running just under 125 MPH I got a buddy that sells wires and fuel pumps so I might just upgrade this winter
Thanks Cab
Gus

8342874-moriaburnout.JPG (46 downloads)

64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701821
11/27/14 12:55 AM
11/27/14 12:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,579
Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana
ProStDodge Offline
master
ProStDodge  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,579
Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana
Won't it make sense that a finer filter would create more resistance to flow per given area, but increasing the surface area of the finer filter would result in the same resistance? In other words if I have a 10 micron filter with 1 sq.in. of filter surface area, it would have the same flow restriction as a 100 micron filter with 10 sq. in of surface area? So as long as my 100 micron fliter was rated to flow as much or more than the 10 micron filter, it should result in no additional strain on the pump.

Sorry, just threw this in for thought.

I run a 10 micron "Pre filter" and a 100 micron before the regulator. And the 100 micron filter is a pretty large unit (8" long, 2" diameter).

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: ProStDodge] #1701822
11/27/14 02:25 AM
11/27/14 02:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
J
Jerry Kathe Offline
enthusiast
Jerry Kathe  Offline
enthusiast
J

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
Quote:

Won't it make sense that a finer filter would create more resistance to flow per given area, but increasing the surface area of the finer filter would result in the same resistance? In other words if I have a 10 micron filter with 1 sq.in. of filter surface area, it would have the same flow restriction as a 100 micron filter with 10 sq. in of surface area? So as long as my 100 micron fliter was rated to flow as much or more than the 10 micron filter, it should result in no additional strain on the pump.




Its apears you understand that filtration and flow are two seperate values...but you have your numbers backwards.

All the same, you are much further along with
understanding this some.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: ProStDodge] #1701823
11/27/14 02:29 AM
11/27/14 02:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,807
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,807
Romeo MI
News flash boys... PUMPS DONT SUCK.. atmospheric pressure
PUSHES the fuel into the pump.. the pump creates the
negative pressure(just like the piston does on the
engine).. thats why the pump companies tell you to
go larger on the inlet side..thats also why you dont
put a fine filter on the inlet side

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1701824
11/27/14 03:16 AM
11/27/14 03:16 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
J
Jerry Kathe Offline
enthusiast
Jerry Kathe  Offline
enthusiast
J

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
Do what?
You are kidding I hope.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Jerry Kathe] #1701825
11/27/14 03:20 AM
11/27/14 03:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,807
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,807
Romeo MI
Quote:

Do what?
You are kidding I hope.




Are you asking me "do what"... and no I'm not kidding

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1701826
11/27/14 03:24 AM
11/27/14 03:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
J
Jerry Kathe Offline
enthusiast
Jerry Kathe  Offline
enthusiast
J

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
Quote:

Quote:

Do what?
You are kidding I hope.




Are you asking me "do what"... and no I'm not kidding





Um......ok....

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Jerry Kathe] #1701827
11/27/14 03:32 AM
11/27/14 03:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,807
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,807
Romeo MI
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Do what?
You are kidding I hope.




Are you asking me "do what"... and no I'm not kidding





Um......ok....




I have a few years flowing pumps... if you dont think
its atmospheric pressure try this.. get your biggest
and baddest pump and flow it.. then apply a vac to
the tank.. I'll bet you see the flow drop with the
vac... I tested pumps a long time and did all sorts
of tests... the same thing happens when you apply a
vac to the oil pan.. the pump put put drops

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1701828
11/27/14 04:04 AM
11/27/14 04:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
J
Jerry Kathe Offline
enthusiast
Jerry Kathe  Offline
enthusiast
J

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
Your confusing the hell out of me.....
if you have tested pumps then you know high pressure pumps have low draw and high volume pumps have reasonably strong draw ( the term strong is relative with this subject)

Sure you could create a negative pressure in the reservoir - but you are simply canceling the negative pressure the pump is creating.

For clarity lets be sure we are talking one concept here....electric fuel pumps for carb and not injection systems.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701829
11/27/14 04:17 AM
11/27/14 04:17 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,240
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
master
451Mopar  Offline
master

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,240
Aurora, Colorado
On the Coronet, I have a 100 micron stainless screen filter from KRC Racing as a pre-pump filter on my EFI system with a 10 micron EFI filter after the pump.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/krc-4706r/overview/

On the Charger I have a Mallory Comp 500 (40 micron) pre-pump filter and the Mallory 250 fuel pump, no problems.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/maa-3500m/overview/

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: ProStDodge] #1701830
11/27/14 04:38 AM
11/27/14 04:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,649
North Sweden
R
RT540 Offline
top fuel
RT540  Offline
top fuel
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,649
North Sweden
Quote:

Won't it make sense that a finer filter would create more resistance to flow per given area, but increasing the surface area of the finer filter would result in the same resistance? In other words if I have a 10 micron filter with 1 sq.in. of filter surface area, it would have the same flow restriction as a 100 micron filter with 10 sq. in of surface area? So as long as my 100 micron fliter was rated to flow as much or more than the 10 micron filter, it should result in no additional strain on the pump.

Sorry, just threw this in for thought.

I run a 10 micron "Pre filter" and a 100 micron before the regulator. And the 100 micron filter is a pretty large unit (8" long, 2" diameter).




Yes, the size of a filter will of coarse increase the numbers of holes which will keep the speed( velocity) of the fuel down and equals in lower pressure over the filter.
If you have a wire mesh filter in SS steel, the diameter of the wire will change how much of the filter area that is open and how much area that are lost with the actual wire material, so the exact same tube of wire mesh can have the same 10 microns( 10 my millimeters) and still have different flow/ pressure numbers.
Inlet size and outlet size and also placement of those will also effect this.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1701831
11/27/14 12:34 PM
11/27/14 12:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,307
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
Too Many Posts
Challenger 1  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,307
Cincinnati, Ohio
Quote:

News flash boys... PUMPS DONT SUCK.. atmospheric pressure
PUSHES the fuel into the pump.. the pump creates the
negative pressure(just like the piston does on the
engine).. thats why the pump companies tell you to
go larger on the inlet side..thats also why you dont
put a fine filter on the inlet side





Welcome back...put some venison in the freezer?

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Challenger 1] #1701832
11/27/14 12:46 PM
11/27/14 12:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,807
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,807
Romeo MI
Quote:

Quote:

News flash boys... PUMPS DONT SUCK.. atmospheric pressure
PUSHES the fuel into the pump.. the pump creates the
negative pressure(just like the piston does on the
engine).. thats why the pump companies tell you to
go larger on the inlet side..thats also why you dont
put a fine filter on the inlet side





Welcome back...put some venison in the freezer?




Thanks.. yeah the wife and I both took a 6 point...
I passed on some others.. we have a 12 point running
around but it never came out during the day

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Jerry Kathe] #1701833
11/27/14 01:55 PM
11/27/14 01:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
M
Monte_Smith Offline
master
Monte_Smith  Offline
master
M

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Do what?
You are kidding I hope.




Are you asking me "do what"... and no I'm not kidding





Um......ok....


How about doing a little research before you start blasting someone who has lots of fuel system experience. Mr P is EXACTLY right. Electric pumps are made to PUSH fuel and every company suggests they be gravity fed, but they WILL pull fuel from a dip tube once the siphon effect takes over

Monte

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1701834
11/27/14 02:01 PM
11/27/14 02:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,677
jersey
S
Spaceman Spiff Offline
master
Spaceman Spiff  Offline
master
S

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,677
jersey
Quote:

News flash boys... PUMPS DONT SUCK.. atmospheric pressure
PUSHES the fuel into the pump.. the pump creates the
negative pressure(just like the piston does on the
engine).. thats why the pump companies tell you to
go larger on the inlet side..thats also why you dont
put a fine filter on the inlet side





So if I mount the pump on top of the tank...it should never push fuel, since atmospheric pressure isn't feeding it right?
Or am I not understanding what you mean?

Last edited by Spaceman Spiff; 11/27/14 02:03 PM.

526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1701835
11/27/14 02:04 PM
11/27/14 02:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
M
MoparBilly Offline
master
MoparBilly  Offline
master
M

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
Years ago we discovered the flow limits of the HPG1 fram filter while running our engine fuel, and nitrous system fuel from the same source.

Now we run the Mallory Comp500. Cannister type dual -8 inlet and outlet which works great with my favorite pump, the Dominator series Volumax 250 georotor which features a dual inlet and single outlet. The Mallory filter is 40 micron. It's an excellent upgrade from the HPG1.

8343496-images.jpg (63 downloads)

"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks" 4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Spaceman Spiff] #1701836
11/27/14 02:06 PM
11/27/14 02:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,807
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,807
Romeo MI
Quote:

Quote:

News flash boys... PUMPS DONT SUCK.. atmospheric pressure
PUSHES the fuel into the pump.. the pump creates the
negative pressure(just like the piston does on the
engine).. thats why the pump companies tell you to
go larger on the inlet side..thats also why you dont
put a fine filter on the inlet side





So if I mount the pump on top of the tank...it should never push fuel, since atmospheric pressure isn't feeding it right?
Or am I not understanding what you mean?




No... you have 14.7 psi pushing on the fuel.. thats
a lot of vertical height
EDIT
when doing fine testing we like to use a measurement
of water(app. 30" of water is 1 psi) so if you turn the
psi into inch of water you an get a idea of the
vertical height... but understand the more you go
vertical the less pressure you have to push in the
fuel.. so it reduces the output

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 11/27/14 02:16 PM.
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1701837
11/27/14 02:18 PM
11/27/14 02:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,745
Utah and Alaska
astjp2 Offline
master
astjp2  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,745
Utah and Alaska
27.71" of head pressure = 1 psi of water, gas is almost the same in a car situation. SO if your tank is 14" below the tank, it will need to pull .5 psi to get it to the pump. More math makes the brain hurt....


1941 Taylorcraft
1968 Charger
1994 Wrangler
1998 Wrangler
2008 Kia Rio
2017 Jetta

I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: astjp2] #1701838
11/27/14 02:20 PM
11/27/14 02:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,807
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,807
Romeo MI
Quote:

27.71" of head pressure = 1 psi of water, gas is almost the same in a car situation. SO if your tank is 14" below the tank, it will need to pull .5 psi to get it to the pump. More math makes the brain hurt....




I just use 30" as a quick number so its easy to figure
in my head... most dont give a damn about it

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Spaceman Spiff] #1701839
11/27/14 02:44 PM
11/27/14 02:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
J
Jerry Kathe Offline
enthusiast
Jerry Kathe  Offline
enthusiast
J

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
As I said prior....not going to debate...so I will sign out with a few comments on this, as it has been twisted into a complete fuster cluck.

I didnt blast anyone one......thicken up.
my inputs were based on flow vs filtration aspects.
if you read the comment about pumps dont suck....you will see it contradicts itself.
atmospheric pressure and barometric pressure is the same.......so unless its at the nominal 29.92......it isn't 14.7
But I wouldnt know this since I have never done any research would I Monte?

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Monte_Smith] #1701840
11/27/14 03:19 PM
11/27/14 03:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,615
Riverside, Ca
G
G_bob Offline
master
G_bob  Offline
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G

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Posts: 3,615
Riverside, Ca
Well, I'm no expert, and I don't even play one on TV, so I try to do as Monte recommends.
Quote:

This thread reminds me of one of my favorite statements over the years........."common sense just ain't all that common"...........LOL!!!

And here is a thought for some........how about check with the company that YOU bought YOUR fuel pump from and see what THEY say............and then refer to first paragraph........LOL!

Monte




So, I spoke with the guy who designed my filters AND was an engineer with the company that made my fuel pump.

So, with his recommendation of filters for my style of pump...
"40 Micron Filters
Designed for use as prefilters for gerotor style electric fuel pumps. Also used to filter fuel before it enters the carb."

I did it this way. Only been 9.92 @ 135.


Re: Fuel filter? [Re: G_bob] #1701841
11/27/14 05:55 PM
11/27/14 05:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,307
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
Too Many Posts
Challenger 1  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,307
Cincinnati, Ohio
Quote:

Well, I'm no expert, and I don't even play one on TV, so I try to do as Monte recommends.
Quote:

This thread reminds me of one of my favorite statements over the years........."common sense just ain't all that common"...........LOL!!!

And here is a thought for some........how about check with the company that YOU bought YOUR fuel pump from and see what THEY say............and then refer to first paragraph........LOL!

Monte




So, I spoke with the guy who designed my filters AND was an engineer with the company that made my fuel pump.

So, with his recommendation of filters for my style of pump...
"40 Micron Filters
Designed for use as prefilters for gerotor style electric fuel pumps. Also used to filter fuel before it enters the carb."

I did it this way. Only been 9.92 @ 135.






There should be hose between the filters and the pump. The filter's should not be mounted solid to the pump.
Because the way it is now, vibration is transferred directly to the filter housings. Mounted ridged that way can lift the filter cartridge inside, off of there spring loaded seats under extreme vibration like during tire shake after a burnout. Plus good tire shake could crack those filters off the pump. Or in a accident those filters mounted that way will break off a lot easier than hose will. There's no support for the filters and there needs to be. The filter should be mounted to the car with rubber lined clamps.

If you used a strainer discharge fitting in your fuel tank you could get rid of one of those big ole housings(which is good, big is good in filters) and save weight and space. Plus having the strainer housing so close to the inlet of the pump can cause cavitation. I could go on, but I won't.

Just trying to help.
Happy Thanksgiving.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Challenger 1] #1701842
11/27/14 06:13 PM
11/27/14 06:13 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
P
Polarapete Offline
top fuel
Polarapete  Offline
top fuel
P

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
I am enjoying following all this because I will be building the fuel system for the Ramcharger over the winter and hope to incorporate a lot of the common sense that I have seen here


1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction
1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver.
2008 Honda Element
2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Polarapete] #1701843
11/27/14 09:40 PM
11/27/14 09:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,899
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
master
fourgearsavoy  Offline
master

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,899
Rittman Ohio
So what have we learned so far from the useable information
1.Some type of wire mesh strainer in line between cell and pump.
2.Size of micron is still under debate.
3.Paper elements don't seem to be too popular.
4.One guy that thinks I'm a "geek" is concerned about mounting a filter directly to the pump Now I have seen some high end pumps with the filter mated to a common base with the pump
5.Most agree that a filter after the pump is a good idea.

Now I'm pretty sure that those fused brass ball filters and the single disc type filters are not considered "high performance" enough for the OP's application.

Anyone else learn anything constructive by reading this thread?
Just add to the list

Now I've been considering mounting a pump in the tank with a sock type strainer on the inlet and an inline filter about a foot from the outlet.
I found this to be a very good read. Linky: http://www.skspeed.com/p.aspx?u=Fuel%20Filters
Gus

Last edited by fourgearsavoy; 11/27/14 09:50 PM.

64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: fourgearsavoy] #1701844
11/27/14 11:03 PM
11/27/14 11:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
C
CHAPPER Offline
master
CHAPPER  Offline
master
C

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
Quote:

So what have we learned so far from the useable information
1.Some type of wire mesh strainer in line between cell and pump.
2.Size of micron is still under debate.
3.Paper elements don't seem to be too popular.
4.One guy that thinks I'm a "geek" is concerned about mounting a filter directly to the pump Now I have seen some high end pumps with the filter mated to a common base with the pump
5.Most agree that a filter after the pump is a good idea.

Now I'm pretty sure that those fused brass ball filters and the single disc type filters are not considered "high performance" enough for the OP's application.

Anyone else learn anything constructive by reading this thread?
Just add to the list

Now I've been considering mounting a pump in the tank with a sock type strainer on the inlet and an inline filter about a foot from the outlet.
I found this to be a very good read. Linky: http://www.skspeed.com/p.aspx?u=Fuel%20Filters
Gus




I learned that this thread was similar/typical of all other threads,,,,'no matter what the topic, there WILL be an argument'.


If you like drag racing, support your local track.
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: CHAPPER] #1701845
11/28/14 05:23 PM
11/28/14 05:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 35,731
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 35,731
Bend,OR USA
I run this set up on my car with E85, it has a stainless screen in the gold colored prefilter and a paper element in the blue filter between the pump and the regulator. After reading about the possible effects on the paper element I will order a 40 micron stanless filter for it and replace it instead of waiting for the paper element to fail, I have used this set up for two years now 12AN to the pump, 10 AN to the regulator, #8AN return to the tank. BG400 pump, Magnafuel 2 port regulator.

8344652-SANY0274.JPG (89 downloads)
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 11/28/14 05:30 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1701846
11/28/14 05:40 PM
11/28/14 05:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
C
CHAPPER Offline
master
CHAPPER  Offline
master
C

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
You sure you got all those hooked up right??


If you like drag racing, support your local track.
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: CHAPPER] #1701847
11/28/14 06:13 PM
11/28/14 06:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 35,731
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 35,731
Bend,OR USA
Quote:

You sure you got all those hooked up right??


I bought it that way, it had a blown B1 aluminum motor in it before I bought it. It had a cam driven mecahical fuel pump so I had to add the electric fuel pump and blue filter and regulator, the other hoses are for the cooling system. It had the electric water pump and two small oil coolers for the cooling system on it when I got this car The front end slides off to work on the motor BTW, it does look a lot like your picture


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1701848
11/28/14 07:11 PM
11/28/14 07:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,307
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
Too Many Posts
Challenger 1  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,307
Cincinnati, Ohio
Since it's show off and tell time. I built this entire car except for the chassis in 1993. It's a 632" big chief pontiac in a Donovan block/shorty PG/9". Trick 2 piece dragster dry sump pan. Went 6.90s without the nitrous. This is the 3rd dragster that I built myself and it is NOT one of the 6 top alcohol dragsters that I built.
It has a belt driven fuel pump on alcohol and had a separate holley blue pump and tank with gasoline for the nitrous system all in a dragster.
I did all the work, built the motor, trans, rear end, wired and plumbed every piece myself. I also tuned and drove them.
I also won races with this car and qualified #1 at every race one year, 8 of them. Ran super quick with it. Had to run 450s with it, which it would do every run on motor only.

Used a very basic microprocessor to pulse the nitrous solenoids. That's why there's 2 solenoids in series, one was a safety. Tons of wiring, diodes across the coils to protect the controller and relays for the solenoids.

Then I went from quick 8 cars to top alcohol dragsters. Same deal I built every piece of the car except the chassis. I did 99% of the tuning but did get help from Tom Conway at some races.


Better know your fuel system otherwise you will burn up/torch your motor in under 3 seconds under power, I've done it. I had 6 guys working for me and had a nice sponsor to help with the cost. Red car is me.
I ended it, the racing. Had a sponsor who wanted to double his budget with me, wanted more races from me for the next year. I decided to take a year off since it wasn't fun anymore. We won best appearing crew at our last race with new uniforms. I may go back someday, I still own a lot of equipment to race. I burned no bridges, were all still friends including the sponsor. These pictures was not the last race.




Re: Fuel filter? [Re: fourgearsavoy] #1701849
11/28/14 09:13 PM
11/28/14 09:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,307
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
Too Many Posts
Challenger 1  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,307
Cincinnati, Ohio
Quote:

Boy do I feel like a geek I think I might just switch the positions and clip my ET from 10.91 to maybe 10.50 I thought I was doing pretty good with a 3600# car and 3.54 gears I'll change it tomorrow and wait unti spring and try it out.
Thanks
Gus




Nothing personal, maybe my slang shouldn't be so sharp?

That street low pressure pump can tolerate that filter just fine most of the time except when it get's real hot out, then you might have trouble?

I wouldn't change it unless your already doing something there, plus you have it plumbed with over sized line which helps a lot and is good. Honestly I think that setup is OK. But don't like aluminum line for a street car.

It's when you use a hi pressure pump like a holley blue pump and up is when you have to be more careful with inlet plumbing. Outlet size and filter placement really don't matter and does not have to be huge like the inlet should be.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Challenger 1] #1701850
11/29/14 04:36 PM
11/29/14 04:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 512
Illinois
Mopar_Ray Offline OP
mopar
Mopar_Ray  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 512
Illinois
Thanks for all the ideas. I'm going to replace the Fram filter with a 100 micron stainless inline filter, and bigger hose Between the fuel cell and pump. My fuel cell has two -8 outlets, so I'm thinking of using both outlets with -8 lines to a Y fitting with a -10 outlet to filter then to pump. The Holley black pump only has 3/8" inlet and outlets? I'll run a finer inline filter after the pump. Let me know if you see any problems.

Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701851
11/29/14 05:13 PM
11/29/14 05:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,174
State of confusion
T
Thumperdart Offline
I Live Here
Thumperdart  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,174
State of confusion
Quote:

Thanks for all the ideas. I'm going to replace the Fram filter with a 100 micron stainless inline filter, and bigger hose Between the fuel cell and pump. My fuel cell has two -8 outlets, so I'm thinking of using both outlets with -8 lines to a Y fitting with a -10 outlet to filter then to pump. The Holley black pump only has 3/8" inlet and outlets? I'll run a finer inline filter after the pump. Let me know if you see any problems.




I run two # 8`s into a billet y then a # 10 to a 100 mic filter directly bolted to the pump then a # 10 to my reg then # 8`s to the bowls.

Last edited by Thumperdart; 11/29/14 06:15 PM.

72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Fuel filter? [Re: Mopar_Ray] #1701852
11/29/14 05:22 PM
11/29/14 05:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,807
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
MR_P_BODY  Offline
Master

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,807
Romeo MI
Quote:

Thanks for all the ideas. I'm going to replace the Fram filter with a 100 micron stainless inline filter, and bigger hose Between the fuel cell and pump. My fuel cell has two -8 outlets, so I'm thinking of using both outlets with -8 lines to a Y fitting with a -10 outlet to filter then to pump. The Holley black pump only has 3/8" inlet and outlets? I'll run a finer inline filter after the pump. Let me know if you see any problems.




That will work

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