Re: 850 Demon info.
[Re: mopar400]
#1689676
10/24/14 12:31 PM
10/24/14 12:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,005 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,005
Benton, IL.
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Screw-in bleeds and such are not an absolute necessity for tuning those circuits. And may narrow your field of choice of carbs down too much. For instance, if it weren't for the screw-in bleeds, would you consider the Demon otherwise? With a drill and tap, it is easy to thread most any carb for air bleeds. Or you can simply drill the orifices out if they need to be larger. And in most cases, the only ones that get adjusted are the idle air bleeds. Adjusting the fuel curve with the main air bleeds is not where most beginning tuners go. For most beginning Holley tuners, the IFRs, IABs, PVCRs, main jets, and the Transition slot feed holes are the areas that give you the most improvement in driveability. (assuming this is a street car) And the T-slots and PVCRs rarely have screw-in jets anyway. You may find that having a drill bit and tap or a selection of wire bits will let you pick a better choice of carb for your application rather than concentrating on looking for one that already has the screw-in bleeds.
Master, again and still
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Re: 850 Demon info.
[Re: DaveRS23]
#1689678
10/24/14 12:50 PM
10/24/14 12:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
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Quote:
Screw-in bleeds and such are not an absolute necessity for tuning those circuits. And may narrow your field of choice of carbs down too much. For instance, if it weren't for the screw-in bleeds, would you consider the Demon otherwise?
With a drill and tap, it is easy to thread most any carb for air bleeds. Or you can simply drill the orifices out if they need to be larger. And in most cases, the only ones that get adjusted are the idle air bleeds. Adjusting the fuel curve with the main air bleeds is not where most beginning tuners go.
For most beginning Holley tuners, the IFRs, IABs, PVCRs, main jets, and the Transition slot feed holes are the areas that give you the most improvement in driveability. (assuming this is a street car) And the T-slots and PVCRs rarely have screw-in jets anyway.
You may find that having a drill bit and tap or a selection of wire bits will let you pick a better choice of carb for your application rather than concentrating on looking for one that already has the screw-in bleeds.
I disagree w/most of what you posted here. Why do you think carb companies came into the 20th century and created tuneable circuits instead of fixed rich idle unhappy cruise characteristics holley was and is known for. I guess we don`t need widebands either. And if you think I`m a beginner definately not so. No expert either but every and I mean EVERY carb I touch gets better, faster and cleaner.........PERIOD. Probably because of all of those "unnecessary" holes that are perfect out of the box. You my man are giving out poor info to a guy that wants to learn and closing the door. I`m not wasting any more time on this w/you the guy that comes in after my post and tries to put down mine and some of the best carb guys in the world practices which are proven to work..................
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: 850 Demon info.
[Re: mopar400]
#1689679
10/24/14 12:53 PM
10/24/14 12:53 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 164 Savannah, GA
mopar400
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 164
Savannah, GA
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My current 850 only has metering screws on the primary side. Idle seems pretty rich to me on the current 440 in sig. No wide band to confirm. I don't know the list number because the choke horn had been milled off from PO. I assume I would also benefit from a new metering block ect. on the rear to add the 4 corner idle. New base, plate and atleast 1 meter block starts adding up and that is why I'm considering a new carb. instead.
1965 Fury II
1970 Challenger 440, 509 cam, 11:1 w/ 452 iron heads, 6.99 1/8, 11.29@ 120mph 1/4
(1999 Magnolia Drag strip track champion)
1992 Jeep XJ Crawler
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Re: 850 Demon info.
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1689681
10/24/14 02:35 PM
10/24/14 02:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,005 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,005
Benton, IL.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Screw-in bleeds and such are not an absolute necessity for tuning those circuits. And may narrow your field of choice of carbs down too much. For instance, if it weren't for the screw-in bleeds, would you consider the Demon otherwise?
With a drill and tap, it is easy to thread most any carb for air bleeds. Or you can simply drill the orifices out if they need to be larger. And in most cases, the only ones that get adjusted are the idle air bleeds. Adjusting the fuel curve with the main air bleeds is not where most beginning tuners go.
For most beginning Holley tuners, the IFRs, IABs, PVCRs, main jets, and the Transition slot feed holes are the areas that give you the most improvement in driveability. (assuming this is a street car) And the T-slots and PVCRs rarely have screw-in jets anyway.
You may find that having a drill bit and tap or a selection of wire bits will let you pick a better choice of carb for your application rather than concentrating on looking for one that already has the screw-in bleeds.
I disagree w/most of what you posted here. Why do you think carb companies came into the 20th century and created tuneable circuits instead of fixed rich idle unhappy cruise characteristics holley was and is known for. I guess we don`t need widebands either. And if you think I`m a beginner definately not so. No expert either but every and I mean EVERY carb I touch gets better, faster and cleaner.........PERIOD. Probably because of all of those "unnecessary" holes that are perfect out of the box. You my man are giving out poor info to a guy that wants to learn and closing the door. I`m not wasting any more time on this w/you the guy that comes in after my post and tries to put down mine and some of the best carb guys in the world practices which are proven to work..................
What are you talking about?
I in no way implied that you were a beginner. It would seem from the question he asked that the OP was the beginning tuner. Now take a deep breath and back away from the key board.
NEWSFLASH THUMPER; Carbs that do not have screw-in bleeds and jets can still be tuned. That was the primary point of my post. I am sorry that you disagree with that. But that is your problem, please don't visit that mistake on the OP.
Air and fuel are metered by the size of the orifice they flow through. They have no way of knowing if the orifice is drilled in brass and screws in or if the orifice is drilled directly in the aluminum itself.
You are implying that if the carb does not have screw-in bleeds and jets that it is not tuneable. Why the obsession with needing to screw a bleed or jet in? And if you had taken the time to rationally read my post, you would have noted that I offered the suggestion of threading the orifices for bleeds and jets if the OP was more comfortable with that.
Why do you not believe that the OP can drill and tap the carb for screw-in bleeds and jets? It is not that hard. But it is also not necessary in order to tune a carb.
You may not be a beginner Thumper, but you are closed minded and defensive.
Relax, Francis.
Master, again and still
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Re: 850 Demon info.
[Re: DaveRS23]
#1689682
10/24/14 03:09 PM
10/24/14 03:09 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 164 Savannah, GA
mopar400
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 164
Savannah, GA
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Screw-in bleeds and such are not an absolute necessity for tuning those circuits. And may narrow your field of choice of carbs down too much. For instance, if it weren't for the screw-in bleeds, would you consider the Demon otherwise?
With a drill and tap, it is easy to thread most any carb for air bleeds. Or you can simply drill the orifices out if they need to be larger. And in most cases, the only ones that get adjusted are the idle air bleeds. Adjusting the fuel curve with the main air bleeds is not where most beginning tuners go.
For most beginning Holley tuners, the IFRs, IABs, PVCRs, main jets, and the Transition slot feed holes are the areas that give you the most improvement in driveability. (assuming this is a street car) And the T-slots and PVCRs rarely have screw-in jets anyway.
You may find that having a drill bit and tap or a selection of wire bits will let you pick a better choice of carb for your application rather than concentrating on looking for one that already has the screw-in bleeds.
I disagree w/most of what you posted here. Why do you think carb companies came into the 20th century and created tuneable circuits instead of fixed rich idle unhappy cruise characteristics holley was and is known for. I guess we don`t need widebands either. And if you think I`m a beginner definately not so. No expert either but every and I mean EVERY carb I touch gets better, faster and cleaner.........PERIOD. Probably because of all of those "unnecessary" holes that are perfect out of the box. You my man are giving out poor info to a guy that wants to learn and closing the door. I`m not wasting any more time on this w/you the guy that comes in after my post and tries to put down mine and some of the best carb guys in the world practices which are proven to work..................
What are you talking about?
I in no way implied that you were a beginner. It would seem from the question he asked that the OP was the beginning tuner. Now take a deep breath and back away from the key board.
NEWSFLASH THUMPER; Carbs that do not have screw-in bleeds and jets can still be tuned. That was the primary point of my post. I am sorry that you disagree with that. But that is your problem, please don't visit that mistake on the OP.
Air and fuel are metered by the size of the orifice they flow through. They have no way of knowing if the orifice is drilled in brass and screws in or if the orifice is drilled directly in the aluminum itself.
You are implying that if the carb does not have screw-in bleeds and jets that it is not tuneable. Why the obsession with needing to screw a bleed or jet in? And if you had taken the time to rationally read my post, you would have noted that I offered the suggestion of threading the orifices for bleeds and jets if the OP was more comfortable with that.
Why do you not believe that the OP can drill and tap the carb for screw-in bleeds and jets? It is not that hard. But it is also not necessary in order to tune a carb.
You may not be a beginner Thumper, but you are closed minded and defensive.
Relax, Francis.
I understand the comments made by both of you. I didn't see your comment being directed at Thumper . If anything I believe you were saying the tuning can be done a cheaper way. That is a true statement but I don't have the time like 6 years ago before kids so the changeable screws would just make my life a little easier is what I'm thinking.
1965 Fury II
1970 Challenger 440, 509 cam, 11:1 w/ 452 iron heads, 6.99 1/8, 11.29@ 120mph 1/4
(1999 Magnolia Drag strip track champion)
1992 Jeep XJ Crawler
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Re: 850 Demon info.
[Re: mopar400]
#1689683
10/24/14 03:27 PM
10/24/14 03:27 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Screw-in bleeds and such are not an absolute necessity for tuning those circuits. And may narrow your field of choice of carbs down too much. For instance, if it weren't for the screw-in bleeds, would you consider the Demon otherwise?
With a drill and tap, it is easy to thread most any carb for air bleeds. Or you can simply drill the orifices out if they need to be larger. And in most cases, the only ones that get adjusted are the idle air bleeds. Adjusting the fuel curve with the main air bleeds is not where most beginning tuners go.
For most beginning Holley tuners, the IFRs, IABs, PVCRs, main jets, and the Transition slot feed holes are the areas that give you the most improvement in driveability. (assuming this is a street car) And the T-slots and PVCRs rarely have screw-in jets anyway.
You may find that having a drill bit and tap or a selection of wire bits will let you pick a better choice of carb for your application rather than concentrating on looking for one that already has the screw-in bleeds.
I disagree w/most of what you posted here. Why do you think carb companies came into the 20th century and created tuneable circuits instead of fixed rich idle unhappy cruise characteristics holley was and is known for. I guess we don`t need widebands either. And if you think I`m a beginner definately not so. No expert either but every and I mean EVERY carb I touch gets better, faster and cleaner.........PERIOD. Probably because of all of those "unnecessary" holes that are perfect out of the box. You my man are giving out poor info to a guy that wants to learn and closing the door. I`m not wasting any more time on this w/you the guy that comes in after my post and tries to put down mine and some of the best carb guys in the world practices which are proven to work..................
What are you talking about?
I in no way implied that you were a beginner. It would seem from the question he asked that the OP was the beginning tuner. Now take a deep breath and back away from the key board.
NEWSFLASH THUMPER; Carbs that do not have screw-in bleeds and jets can still be tuned. That was the primary point of my post. I am sorry that you disagree with that. But that is your problem, please don't visit that mistake on the OP.
Air and fuel are metered by the size of the orifice they flow through. They have no way of knowing if the orifice is drilled in brass and screws in or if the orifice is drilled directly in the aluminum itself.
You are implying that if the carb does not have screw-in bleeds and jets that it is not tuneable. Why the obsession with needing to screw a bleed or jet in? And if you had taken the time to rationally read my post, you would have noted that I offered the suggestion of threading the orifices for bleeds and jets if the OP was more comfortable with that.
Why do you not believe that the OP can drill and tap the carb for screw-in bleeds and jets? It is not that hard. But it is also not necessary in order to tune a carb.
You may not be a beginner Thumper, but you are closed minded and defensive.
Relax, Francis.
I understand the comments made by both of you. I didn't see your comment being directed at Thumper . If anything I believe you were saying the tuning can be done a cheaper way. That is a true statement but I don't have the time like 6 years ago before kids so the changeable screws would just make my life a little easier is what I'm thinking.
All I`m saying is that there`s more to tuning than jet changes. Yes, he can drill n tap but why bother cos that`s not needed sayz you. I don`t want to banter back n forth............you have your opinions and I have wet flow theory and the best in the business helping people all over the world better understand the affects of lower ifr`s in the head of the fuel being excellent for tuning and distribution...............less emulsion and on and on. Enjoy your day I`ve got a carb to fix..............
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: 850 Demon info.
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1689684
10/24/14 05:03 PM
10/24/14 05:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,005 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,005
Benton, IL.
|
Thumper, I think this is just a mis-understanding. I did not say or mean to imply that these carbs cannot benefit from tuning. They can. I have never seen an OOTB carb that couldn't be improved, at least in the transitions. I only suggested that there was more than one way to change the flow of the metering orifices. The OP prefers to have a carb with more of the bleeds and such already tapped. Had he have mentioned that, I would not have made the suggestion, as it would have been unnecessary. I would like to ask one question though. Are there many popular carbs with the PVCRs and T-slots already equipped with the small jets? I have not run into any myself. And those two areas nearly always need some attention, in my experience. So, no matter how the air bleeds are, I end up needing drill bits and such for those. I honestly meant my original suggestion as a means to help the OP, not to argue any particular point.
Master, again and still
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Re: 850 Demon info.
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1689686
10/25/14 11:38 PM
10/25/14 11:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 164 Savannah, GA
mopar400
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 164
Savannah, GA
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Well, he finally gave me the numbers and some info. The Demon is a blow through carb. Atleast I'm in no hurry and can keep looking..........
1965 Fury II
1970 Challenger 440, 509 cam, 11:1 w/ 452 iron heads, 6.99 1/8, 11.29@ 120mph 1/4
(1999 Magnolia Drag strip track champion)
1992 Jeep XJ Crawler
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