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Re: What causes front tires to turn outwards during wheelie
[Re: AndyF]
#1689625
10/23/14 03:06 PM
10/23/14 03:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Basically an over simplified explanation is that the arc of the control arms/knuckle is not the same as the arc the tie rods swing in.
The pivot points of the control arms need to be the same as the inner tie rod pivot point. Much easier to do with a strut car since you only have the lower control arms to deal with.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: What causes front tires to turn outwards during wheelie
[Re: TheOtherDodge]
#1689627
10/23/14 03:28 PM
10/23/14 03:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Quote:
Thanks Guys! let me rephrase...I knew it was bump steer, but I wasn't 100% sure what caused it. I see now from the replies.
Do you think going to a drop spindle would put the geometry of the suspension in better shape and eliminate or drastically reduce bump steer?
No, the issue is the difference in pivot points of the control arms and inner tie rods. Drop spindles aren't going to change that.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: What causes front tires to turn outwards during wheelie
[Re: TheOtherDodge]
#1689629
10/23/14 04:33 PM
10/23/14 04:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Quote:
Thanks! I will check it out. I may have some questions on what to do to correct this. 
On a stock chassis vehicle there isn't a lot you can do to correct this without fab work. At this point unless it is causing handling problems the effort isn't worth it.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: What causes front tires to turn outwards during wheelie
[Re: 383man]
#1689631
10/24/14 01:16 AM
10/24/14 01:16 AM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,819
South Bend
John Brown
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,819
South Bend
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Look for info on bump steer correction on right turn - left turn sporty car sites. Sometimes you will find that correcting bump steer is as simple as heating and bending the steering arms up or down a half inch or so.
July 19th should be "Drive Like Rockford Day". R.I.P. Jimmie.
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Re: What causes front tires to turn outwards during wheelie
[Re: TheOtherDodge]
#1689633
10/24/14 12:00 PM
10/24/14 12:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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You could plot out the bump steer and see if a travel limiter will keep it out of the worst of it. I would make sure that the limiter attach to a point that will keep everything in compression (balljoints) and try different amounts to see what you can get away with. Use some form of rubber stop also so it doesn't upset the chassis when it hits the limit. I use old shock biskets from bayonet type shocks.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: What causes front tires to turn outwards during wheelie
[Re: John Brown]
#1689638
10/24/14 05:10 PM
10/24/14 05:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
Tig
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
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Quote:
Quote:
Front tires & suspension do a lot of things during a wheelstand that you need to be aware of. This may be an extreme example, but still one to consider when it comes to your particular vehicle.
Challenger wheelstand - front suspension issues
That's not bump steer. If you could see both wheels you would see that both tires were going in the same direction. That problem likely would be solved with a steering stabilizer, but you know how weight conscious racers are. That type of wobble occurs most often on light weight front ends with low friction steering components.
Thats my car in 2010  , It does have heim joints rather than bushes on strut rods and uca's but the idler arm bush was pretty much toast there. Front suspension is doing stuff it was never really designed for, probably due to loads of upward suspension travel. It's better after the new idler arm and a set up but still does it to some extent. It also eats upper control arm ball joints. Been told to change to struts if i want to eliminate it entirely 
Where would i get a steering stabiliser? is this like a steering damper on motorcycles? Weight is not really an issue on this 
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: What causes front tires to turn outwards during wheelie
[Re: John Brown]
#1689640
10/24/14 06:01 PM
10/24/14 06:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
Tig
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
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Thanks John  and apologies to the OP for the hijack
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: What causes front tires to turn outwards during wheelie
[Re: 540DUSTER]
#1689641
10/24/14 07:21 PM
10/24/14 07:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Quote:
if the wheels are moving in and out during travel its bumpsteer.The wheels can do the same thing,they can be one towed in and the other toed out or any combo.You can do alot to fix the problem by reading the old mopar chassis book.You can shim the steering box,you can relocate the idler arm by grinding the mount and welding a washer to the frame to hold the idler arm.I got my car down to a 1\8" tow-in.Its easy to fix,but hard to understand.I read the chapter on bumpsteer several times before i understood it.You can fix it good luck!
OP has a Dakota with I'm sure a rack and pinion. The way those racks are mounted, bushing with a through bolt, it's going to be a lot of work to change that. Also he is not going to be able to change the length of the rack between the inner tie rods and that is probably where most of the problem is.
Just to be clear to the OP you are asking about the wheels towing out and not the camber change where it looks like it's going negative camber correct?
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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