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Re: Repop fender tag
[Re: KillerBee]
#1679289
10/03/14 02:57 AM
10/03/14 02:57 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 349
West Central Wisconsin
DeMopuar
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 349
West Central Wisconsin
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My thought experiment was not meant to hit a nerve, it was to just prove a point to the most extreme degree. All I was trying to bring to the surface was all things being equal, which is more valuable? Otherwise, why even worry about the fender tag if it brings $0 dollars to the table?
I really think that the huge hit in values our Mopar cars experienced since 2007 has something to do with this fabricated history. I think a lot of collectors at Barrett and other high end auctions had more money than brains before 2007, and when they finally figured out that the cars they were purchasing had issues of one kind or the other and they made some poor investments of dollars into subpar cars, well, it couldn't have helped our hobby. Not that repop fender tags and VIN tags can totally account for the downward trend of values since 2007 (I'm sure there has been a lot of discovery of poor restorations as well; but this kind of goes hand in hand); and I know that good cars are bringing better money than 2007; but values have not fully recovered yet either. I follow the secondary auction market, and other than the $3.5 million hammer price on the best 71 hemicuda convertible on the planet, the rest of us are still not back to the 2005 prices. Sorry for going off topic a bit, but really; isn't this the reason people want fender tags on their cars? If it didn't affect value, why make em up?
And yes, I really do like "swapman's" fender tags. Awesome, funny, one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
Mark
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Re: Repop fender tag
[Re: DeMopuar]
#1679292
10/03/14 11:54 AM
10/03/14 11:54 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,326
VA
dragon slayer
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,326
VA
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Quote:
My thought experiment was not meant to hit a nerve, it was to just prove a point to the most extreme degree. All I was trying to bring to the surface was all things being equal, which is more valuable? Otherwise, why even worry about the fender tag if it brings $0 dollars to the table?
I really think that the huge hit in values our Mopar cars experienced since 2007 has something to do with this fabricated history. I think a lot of collectors at Barrett and other high end auctions had more money than brains before 2007, and when they finally figured out that the cars they were purchasing had issues of one kind or the other and they made some poor investments of dollars into subpar cars, well, it couldn't have helped our hobby. Not that repop fender tags and VIN tags can totally account for the downward trend of values since 2007 (I'm sure there has been a lot of discovery of poor restorations as well; but this kind of goes hand in hand); and I know that good cars are bringing better money than 2007; but values have not fully recovered yet either. I follow the secondary auction market, and other than the $3.5 million hammer price on the best 71 hemicuda convertible on the planet, the rest of us are still not back to the 2005 prices. Sorry for going off topic a bit, but really; isn't this the reason people want fender tags on their cars? If it didn't affect value, why make em up?
And yes, I really do like "swapman's" fender tags. Awesome, funny, one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
Mark
No nerve hit Mark, this topic can span a great area. Stupid money is still out there, especially in the North East. Hate to generalize, but I too track auctions, and travelled to see the US Marshall auction.
Some of the cars sold were actually for sale on consignment before being seized. They could have been bought for less at the consignment dealer. Yet they sold for a premium of multiple 10K dollars and this was with expert appraisal that pointed out re vinned motors and fake documentation. These where the SS Chevys.
One had to be reclassified as a tribute after the inspection revealed quite graphically that it was a Malibu with fake broadcast sheet, window sticker, VIN, and parts. Still sold for $70K
As far as the Mopars, the Hemi Superbird sold for $575K. And yes there was a single digit off between the broadcast sheet and the Fender tag. Otherwise deemed to be Original numbers match, but restored with all OEM equipment, including date coded tires.
The Basket case 71CUDA hemi went high dollars too. Even with the 1969 motor that had the correct VIN on it. Lots of talk about that.
So in my mind far more has to go into evaluating a car than the fender tag. I just don't treat the fender tag like the motor, just because it has data on it.
As others have pointed out there are legitimate reasons to desire having a fender tag reproduced for your car.
In my own case, I can find several examples of fender tags of the same build month that I can look at for cars similarly optioned as mine. In my research for my car, those fender tags are very consistent. Car to BC Sheet to Fender tag. In all cases I have seen, the fender tag has less options on it than the Broad Cast sheet. G
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Re: Repop fender tag
[Re: 68gtx]
#1679293
10/03/14 11:56 AM
10/03/14 11:56 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Quote:
I think most people want a fender tag simply because its missing.
There will always be greedy people trying to scam we will never stop that. And its not just Mopars I see a lot of LS6 Chevelles out there and the Corvette guys they openly talk about restamping motors. 
Back in the late 70's the Corvette restoration shop I worked at had no issues with restamping driveline components or making/changing frame tags...as the owners were more concerned about the "correctness" of the restoration or rebuild...the shop later on started doing Shelby/Mustang restorations, and they were treated to the same form of restamping/tag making, Shelby's had VIN's on almost every part exclusive to the car, so a restoration/rebuild usually meant they were removed/restamped/engraved/restenciled/etc...the Mopar crowd is just late to the game as usual...the only difference now is that $$$$$$ are involved rather than the owners desire to "restore" the car back to so called "originality"....there are those needing tags that feel the restoration is incomplete if the tag is missing, but they are in the minority....tags mean $$$$$$ today for most, those needing them for resale of the vehicle, and those making them
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Re: Repop fender tag
[Re: DeMopuar]
#1679294
10/03/14 12:49 PM
10/03/14 12:49 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,200
Sec.414,seat 12,White Sox Park
swapman
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,200
Sec.414,seat 12,White Sox Park
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Quote:
And yes, I really do like "swapman's" fender tags. Awesome, funny, one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
Mark
Thanks, sometimes with the way this world is we have to have some grins.
It is so neat to watch people's reactions when they check those tags, thinking they are seeing 1 of the 11 "real" cars. Asking themselves if it is REAL or MEMOREX?
Us old retired folks just love to mess with peoples minds.
 
Below are all 3 Tags. Mark Rupp (80ramcharger) got the "Special Handling" tag from a old junkyard Police car as I remember. 
I built this car for one purpose, to drive and have fun with. So far, no disappointments. 
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Re: Repop fender tag
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1679296
10/03/14 02:17 PM
10/03/14 02:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,162
CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,162
CT
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Quote:
Quote:
With hundreds of millions of US currency counterfeit C notes in circulation, more 427 ci 435 horsepower Corvettes sold at auction each year than GM ever built, millions of perfect Rolex clones and Gucci purses sold on the streets from Hong Kong to New York and museums of the world over burdened by multi million dollar phony 'masterpieces',,,,,why do so many still subscribe to the fantasy that a few pieces of stamped metal and printed paper forms are sufficient evidence that their car is a genuine rarity that deserves a value oft times many multiples of the same car without these too easily(far simpler than most of the examples given above)faked and counterfeit proofs of some supposed illustrious providence?
One day I suspect that this will all end badly for many when the music stops and there is an absence of chairs for all who seek one.
By the way, when does the ground war begin?
Of course, as with anything valuable, you will find an unscrupulous criminal element trying to profit by fraudulent means.
A cars documentation is only one part of the picture in verifying it's originality, often times, a major part. That said, other information such as the cars history, are even more important and can help complete the big picture.
I knew a guy (girl who I went to school with's father) who had a '69 Road Runner when I bought my first '67 GTX. T5 with saddle top and saddle bucket seat interior. 103K original miles, he drove the car until around 2000. His father bought it new. I really liked the car. He hadn't had it running in years and asked me to get it running for him because he was considering selling it.
He had ALL the documentiation you could want, window sticker, original registration, insurance cards, dealer info, business cards of the salesman etc. Anyway, at some point his vin tag was stolen at a glass shop when a new windshield was being fitted. He didn't realize how big of a deal it was that the VIN tag was missing, because all the documentation tied back to it. But he didn't really understand the world of clones, rebodies, etc. I put more faith in that car being real than other cars with all of their tags and docs. So I agree with that.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Repop fender tag
[Re: kentj340]
#1679299
10/04/14 03:21 AM
10/04/14 03:21 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi
Penguin-hating Ginger
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Penguin-hating Ginger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
fender tag was (stolen) at a local car show
Maybe a little dab of weld on the backside of the Philips screws is called for.
Or replace one screw with a pop rivet ?
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Re: Repop fender tag
[Re: OzHemi]
#1679300
10/04/14 03:23 AM
10/04/14 03:23 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 16,844
Phoenix - surface of the sun
nomore65BelvJim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 16,844
Phoenix - surface of the sun
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
fender tag was (stolen) at a local car show
Maybe a little dab of weld on the backside of the Philips screws is called for.
Or replace one screw with a pop rivet ?
And shape a little dab of bondo on the rivet head to look like a screw if it has to have the look.
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Re: Repop fender tag
[Re: nomore65BelvJim]
#1679301
10/04/14 03:45 AM
10/04/14 03:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi
Penguin-hating Ginger
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Penguin-hating Ginger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
fender tag was (stolen) at a local car show
Maybe a little dab of weld on the backside of the Philips screws is called for.
Or replace one screw with a pop rivet ?
And shape a little dab of bondo on the rivet head to look like a screw if it has to have the look.
Or grind the threads off a screw and super glue the head onto the pop rivet. 
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Re: Repop fender tag
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1679303
10/07/14 07:14 PM
10/07/14 07:14 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 406
California City, CA
dart440
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 406
California City, CA
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Lots of 71 Hemicars had engines with 1969 casting dates. My original match #s 71 Hemi RR had an engine 5/69 casting date (don't remember the day), and the car was a 10/70 built car (off the door jamb sticker).
When you work on Spaceships for a living, how bad can a workday be?
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Re: Repop fender tag
[Re: nomore65BelvJim]
#1679307
10/08/14 12:46 PM
10/08/14 12:46 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
fender tag was (stolen) at a local car show
Maybe a little dab of weld on the backside of the Philips screws is called for.
Or replace one screw with a pop rivet ?
And shape a little dab of bondo on the rivet head to look like a screw if it has to have the look.
I used a couple of long coarse-threaded, philips-head screws (top part looks just like the sheetmetal screw they used). Then secured them with two nuts each, which have the nylon inserts.
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