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Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1665625
08/31/14 04:34 AM
08/31/14 04:34 AM
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IL, Aurora
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ademon Offline
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Quote:

Internally this engine is nearly identical to the one in the Valiant above, (different heads but similar flow #'s) with a stock carb, intake, ignition, and exhaust manifolds, it's only down about 70HP but makes the same 500lbs of torque.





or stick a six pack on it and tell everyone its a lil 340

8256564-001(1280x960).jpg (314 downloads)
Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: 383man] #1665626
08/31/14 04:53 AM
08/31/14 04:53 AM
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West Coast, USA
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I have a 1968 Barracuda convertible. A lot of the stuff you need to do to your car to get it ready for whatever motor you are going to run needs to be done first for several reasons, the #1 reason is safety because it sounds like you are going to have a powerful engine combo in a car not really designed to handle and stop that much power.

Things like installing the full US Cartool chassis stiffening kit. Upfrading the disc brakes and rear end, give Dr Diff a call and decide how much you want to spend on stopping. I have the unicast police taxi rotors in the front and his econo Mustang Cobra R kit with a small bore master cylinder. I also had him drop ship me an 8 3/4 rear end with big bolt pattern forged axles and a 489 case with 3.91's and a truetrac diff. He can also drop ship all the stuff Strange sells, including the S-60.

Decide if you want to run 15 inch factory style rims or go with some 17's or 18 inch rims. I've never seen a set on a car I liked as much as the 15 inch black factory steel rims with Dog dish hubcaps, but that's up to you.

As far as motors go, my car started out with a Slant 6 and a 904. I upgraded the rest of the car then pumped up the slanty and one day decided to put a 2001 EFI'd 5.9 Magnum and a 727 in it.

It was just a junkyard motor, but I re-cammed it, match ported the intake and threw in some new rod bearings , valve springs and timing set. I should have re-ringed it, as it only had 90 psi cranking compression in cylinder #2. I ran it like that for a year. With 3.23 gears I had in it at the time, it would run in the mid 13's.

A few months ago, I began building a mild 408 stroker motor with a bigger cam, CNC ported Eddies and 10.2 to one compression. I have 30 lbs 2-hole injectors on a deep ported Hughes Airgap with their Big Gulp throttle body. It should put out around 500hp/500tq. Nothing to radical with a streetable cam and a reflashed 1998 truck ECM with a tune from Hemi Fever aka Sean.

This is going to be hooked to a bellhousing from a 2 piece Powerglide racing trans, a 1/2 inch adapter that lets it bolt to a 200R4 transmission that is built to hold 750 hp & 650 ft lbs of torque.

It will have a 3000 stall converter with a three carbon fiber disc lock-up from Precision Torque Converters. The lock-up is controlled by one 12V wire. The transmission is entirely hydraulically controlled internally and once it drops out of 4th the lock-up disengages automatically. The other nice thing about this transmission is that it has a 2.76 to 1 first gear and a .67 overdrive.

You will have to notch the drivers side of the torsion bar crossmember to fit the 200R4, but its one of the the smallest, strongest overdrive transmissions you can put in a Mopar. You'll probably have to remove most of the crossmember to put in the Tremec, but it can be easily reinforced again, especially if you go to an Alterkation style front end. You'll also have to make your own rear transmission mount. Hotchkis is doing a sweet build with that transmission in an A-body now. Those guys are master fabricators and their build is awesome.

I also put two passenger side rear Super stock springs in the rear with a sway bar and 1 inch lowering blocks. In the front, I run 1" torsion bars with a welded up K-member, big front swaybar, reinforced lower control arms, Firm Feel upper control arms and Hotchkiss adjustable strut rods. I also made a custom Monte Carlo bar to help stiffen the front end. I welded the shock towers solidly to the inner fenders too. I had a 4 core radiator made by US Radiator, and put in A/C from Vintage Air.

My fuel tank is a new stock tank with a pusher pump that feeds a surge tank with a high pressure pump at the front of the car. The main tank has no baffles, but it will run hard all the way down to the last few gallons, because of the surge tank system.

The car starts and runs like a modern car, has A/C and on paper it should run in the mid to high 10's and still be able to go faster than I have the nerve to drive it. It should even get good gas mileage on the highway.

There are many ways you can go, but having modern technology working for you like EFI, A/C, overdrive, power windows, well-balanced disc brakes, a stiffened chassis, good floor insulation and sound reducing materials, Corbeau VX seats and a low maintenance motor sure makes what ever path you choose to go down a lot more comfortable.

You can read about the transmission install over on a-bodies only. Here's the link.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=274161

Last edited by jbc426; 08/31/14 02:48 PM.

1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: ademon] #1665627
08/31/14 10:01 AM
08/31/14 10:01 AM
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Oakdale CT
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Well a lot will depend on how hard it will be to hook up that 6 speed.

A friend of mine just assembled a plain jane duster with a 440 with 440 source heads, Holly street dominator intake to keep it under the hood with no scoop, schumacher headers and a 518 overdrive trans and out of the box at the track with zero tuning ran 11.6's

And it has power steering too. Car is a pure street car that can be driven anywhere, anytime. Car was raced through the exhaust and with the tires it runs on the street.




"I think its got a hemi"
Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: Blue Demon] #1665628
08/31/14 01:22 PM
08/31/14 01:22 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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Lots of good ideas covered. My : Offset ground 440 crank in a B block/440 rods. this is 470 cubes & as you noted it is a better fit in an A body tho an RB is easily doable & the 3/4" higher deck on each end of the V ain't the end of the world for fitment. Headers or 68-70 HP manifolds or max wedge iron manifolds (flow good/heavy/pricey) are the biggest decision/problem area. Alum Source heads. No actual exp but I hear the stroked 360 (408) is a killer. It would weigh less but you still have a small big block cubewise. Noone that I have ever spoken with with a properly built/setup big block A body has ever regretted going that route


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: RapidRobert] #1665629
08/31/14 04:51 PM
08/31/14 04:51 PM
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Desert Tracker
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HYPER8oSoNic Offline
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Desert Tracker
A big block A-body is really awesome but a bit more work and weight added to the front end of the car. Stumpy and Scott
made great points about big-inch small blocks, which 100 percent. It does make better sense to have for the weight distribution. And
the power can be made to rival the big-block. HP wise, a big block is a tad bit cheaper and they put out TRAINLOADS of torque. The small block does hold a big key factor - more
HP in rpm power. Combine the lighter weight of the engine in a A-body chassis, properly prepped and you can take down 90-95% of the competition (similarly equipped). Small-block underdogs (Mopar A-bodies) DO have the BIGGER TEETH for the competition. They just BITE a lot HARDER (off the line, of course!)



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1665630
09/01/14 12:26 AM
09/01/14 12:26 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 834
Beavercreek, Ohio
OA5599 Offline
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Beavercreek, Ohio
I went stroker small block. 418 ci, Eddy CNC'd heads, Air Gap intake, pump gas, tight 10" converter, 3.91 gear. Best of 11.26 at 119 with plenty more left in it. It's a beast in the low end torque department. Dyno'd at 485 hp at the rear wheels. Pop the hood and it looks like a stock 340 to the layman. It's the sleeper I've always wanted. Good luck with whatever decision you make.

Just my


Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: OA5599] #1665631
09/01/14 11:30 AM
09/01/14 11:30 AM
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Hamilton,Ont
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Another vote for a big inch small block. With all the excellent parts available for the A engine these days they are above par with a stock cube big block without making your car a nose heavy pig. There are a ton of 360's in wrecking yards, add an economical stroker kit, a decent set of heads and enjoy. There are a lot of well sorted out small block combos on this site, take some notes and duplicate a proven combo.


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Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: 72chrgrally] #1665632
09/01/14 01:09 PM
09/01/14 01:09 PM
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Chilliwack B.C. Canada
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Small block all the way. I have never seen the romance of a big block A body even though I love big blocks.
With the parts available today it just doesn't make sense to run a big block in an A-body.

Sheldon

Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: RUNCHARGER] #1665633
09/01/14 02:32 PM
09/01/14 02:32 PM
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Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline
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Although you can make an RB engine as light as a stock LA engine, I'd stroke a small block. I met a guy a couple weekends back at the Goodguys Northwest Nationals with a beautiful 66 Satellite vert. Stroked 360. I believe he had 3.91 gears. The car goes 0-60 in under 4 seconds. For street driving you'd get great handling and acceleration like a scalded ape.


I’m listening.
Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1665634
09/01/14 03:24 PM
09/01/14 03:24 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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4.25 cranks are available for the SB now days and at 4.060 bore gives you 440 cubes. Spark plugs are way easier to change, headers fit better (no need to cut fenders), more efficent heads (better valve position, fast burn chambers, better plug location...) are easily available, rotating parts are way lighter, overall weight is a lot lighter where it matters... SB just makes more sense all around unless you are considering real awesome BB heads like a B1.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: Blue Demon] #1665635
09/01/14 03:34 PM
09/01/14 03:34 PM
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Illinois
StrkrDart69 Offline
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Illinois
I have allways been a big block guy. But for my dart I built a stroker magnum and I am glad I went small block. The powerband with a stroker sb is amazing. You have to learn to take your foot out of it because they will not stop rpm-ing. Easy to work on, lots of room, makes big block guys shake their head ticked off when they see tail lights.

Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: StrkrDart69] #1665636
09/01/14 03:46 PM
09/01/14 03:46 PM
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Illinois
StrkrDart69 Offline
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Easy to get to distributor. Nice to work on.

Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: StrkrDart69] #1665637
09/01/14 08:31 PM
09/01/14 08:31 PM
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The Pale Blue Dot
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I'm building a B engine A body that I've been working on for a long time. If I was starting today it would be Gen 3 hemi all the way.

Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: Blue Demon] #1665638
09/01/14 09:28 PM
09/01/14 09:28 PM
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Oregon
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This 427 inch small block weighs 449 lbs with a super heavy 340 resto block. A stock block engine would be another 50 lbs lighter. It has the same power curve as an early Viper engine. It costs roughly the same to build a stroker small block as it does to build a stroker big block. A 451 or 471 big block will make a little more power than than a 427 inch SB, but the SB will weigh less and take up less space.

I'd go SB or Gen3 in an A body car these days. I don't see any reason to put a big block into a street driven A-body anymore. It was great idea 30 years ago but these days there are better options.

8258245-weigh_427.jpg (164 downloads)
Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: Skeptic] #1665639
09/01/14 09:29 PM
09/01/14 09:29 PM
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SoCal
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I was struggling with this same dilemma for the past couple of months, I have a lot of serious big block parts and nothing to put them in.

I just can't bring myself to cut the inner fender wells of my Valiant for a set of headers so I have decided to just go with a stroker small block, easier to work on and to me that is a plus.

Good Luck with what ever route you go, if it involves big blocks I have some good deals on parts, LOL!

Joey

Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: AndyF] #1665640
09/02/14 02:12 AM
09/02/14 02:12 AM
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IL, Aurora
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ademon Offline
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Quote:

This 427 inch small block weighs 449 lbs with a super heavy 340 resto block. A stock block engine would be another 50 lbs lighter. It has the same power curve as an early Viper engine. It costs roughly the same to build a stroker small block as it does to build a stroker big block. A 451 or 471 big block will make a little more power than than a 427 inch SB, but the SB will weigh less and take up less space.

I'd go SB or Gen3 in an A body car these days. I don't see any reason to put a big block into a street driven A-body anymore. It was great idea 30 years ago but these days there are better options.



Well said!

Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: AndyF] #1665641
09/02/14 02:54 AM
09/02/14 02:54 AM
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Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
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Quote:

This 427 inch small block weighs 449 lbs with a super heavy 340 resto block. A stock block engine would be another 50 lbs lighter. It has the same power curve as an early Viper engine. It costs roughly the same to build a stroker small block as it does to build a stroker big block. A 451 or 471 big block will make a little more power than than a 427 inch SB, but the SB will weigh less and take up less space.

I'd go SB or Gen3 in an A body car these days. I don't see any reason to put a big block into a street driven A-body anymore. It was great idea 30 years ago but these days there are better options.




It still comes down to cost. Yes, if you're going to stroke whatever you have, the costs are similar, but there is no cheaper way to a torque monster than a stock stroke 440. 440s can still be found cheap (sometimes free)...

Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: Jim_Lusk] #1665642
09/02/14 06:07 AM
09/02/14 06:07 AM
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Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
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Quote:



It still comes down to cost. Yes, if you're going to stroke whatever you have, the costs are similar, but there is no cheaper way to a torque monster than a stock stroke 440. 440s can still be found cheap (sometimes free)...




It all boils down to what you are going to do- I don't get the SB 408 vs 440 argument as the 440 has already won it on the basis of money spent per cubic inch plus will still have a 30 cube advantage over the 408

If you are going to build a car for road course then the small block makes sense but road course and auto cross favors a well setup car and a smooth driver more than anything. I think its splitting hairs.

My friend Andy runs 11's with a very docile 440 package and is street driven, with some tuning it will be in the low 11's. The headers and intake are a compromise but he wanted a street car first and foremost.

It may boil down to working with what you already have or a look you are trying to achieve for the car. I can see someone with a restored 340 car and not wanting to do any mods but looks stock with more power.

Andy's Duster has got me rethinking me putting a Magnum in my upcoming Dart project. I have a few 440's just lying about here... some aluminum heads over there... hmm..




"I think its got a hemi"
Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: gdonovan] #1665643
09/02/14 08:01 AM
09/02/14 08:01 AM
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Posts: 2,360
PA
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I have a 440 in a 68 Dart. At the time I built it, that was about the only way to go. We didn't have all these stroker kits for small and big blocks. If you wanted power, you needed to stuff a big-block between the fenders. Now, today if I had the opportunity to do it all over again, I would go with a stoked small-block. You would save a lot of $$$ plus time and aggravation. Also it won't be front heavy. That's my $0.02.

Re: Big Block (440, 400, 383) vs. Small Block in A-body? [Re: 70HemiGTX] #1665644
09/02/14 08:15 AM
09/02/14 08:15 AM
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Wichita
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This is the Swinger of a member on here.

The car has a late 70's 440, mild roller cam, 727 and 3.91's.

He can drive it anywhere and it's a torque monster! Traction is non existant even in second gear on the street.

He used a motorplate on the front and tti headers and it really works well. I was surprised as he plate doesn't shake the car at all. Very fun car with a cheap powertrain.

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