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Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install
[Re: feets]
#1661371
09/03/14 10:47 PM
09/03/14 10:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101
OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
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OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
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Quote:
The rear diff, springs, and brakes are easy. You can knock that out in an hour if you know what you're doing and have all the parts.
The front end is more complicated due to having more fiddly bits and dealing with alignment. A seasoned pro can knock one out quickly but someone just starting out will likely take a full day once everything is on hand.
One thing I will suggest is a quick and dirty alignment. Once the tires look like they are more or less straight up and down you need to look at toe.
Lift each front tire off the ground. Grab a screwdriver and hold it steady. Spin the tire and let the pointy tip of the screwdriver drag along the tire somewhere in the middle of the tread. Done right it will scribe a line around the tire.
Do this on both sides.
Put the car on the ground and bounce the suspension a bit to settle things.
Slide a tape measure under the car to your friend on the other side.
Measure the distance between the marks on the tires in the front and rear. Adjust your tie rods until the measurements are the same.
*POOF*
You just did a quickie alignment good enough to get you to an alignment shop without trashing your new tires.
Note that the marks do not have to be on the same portion of the tread for left and right. As long as you scribe a perfect ring and don't wobble about you're fine.
Thank you... Those are all good to note and I like your quick-e alignment job. There's a pretty good alignment shop about 2-3 miles from my house.
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Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install
[Re: Birdturd]
#1661372
09/03/14 10:50 PM
09/03/14 10:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101
OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
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OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
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Quote:
Jumping back to your brake lines if you add a tee to to supply the rear you might look at getting an brake bias adjuster plumbed in, that way you can dial in how much rear brake you need. 
I've asked this question a couple times, both here and in the Q&A forum, and it is so hard to get a straight answer. So T fitting for the front and an adjustable valve before the rear distribution T for the rear, correct?
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Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install
[Re: MuuMuu101]
#1661373
09/03/14 10:58 PM
09/03/14 10:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482
Lake Orion, MI
goldduster318
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482
Lake Orion, MI
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Quote:
I've asked this question a couple times, both here and in the Q&A forum, and it is so hard to get a straight answer. So T fitting for the front and an adjustable valve before the rear distribution T for the rear, correct?
Yes, you can do that. I would keep the factory distribution block as it makes it easier (and keeps the brake warning light). Just make sure you take out the factory prop valve (a separate brass piece mounted in the rear line after the distribution block since you have the K-H disks) and replace it with the adjustable valve.
Also, remember that the output from the Master Cylinder nearest to the firewall is the front brakes.
'70 Duster 470hp 340/T56 Magnum/8 3/4 3.23 Sure-Grip
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Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install
[Re: goldduster318]
#1661374
09/03/14 11:09 PM
09/03/14 11:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101
OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
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OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
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Quote:
Quote:
I've asked this question a couple times, both here and in the Q&A forum, and it is so hard to get a straight answer. So T fitting for the front and an adjustable valve before the rear distribution T for the rear, correct?
Yes, you can do that. I would keep the factory distribution block as it makes it easier (and keeps the brake warning light). Just make sure you take out the factory prop valve (a separate brass piece mounted in the rear line after the distribution block since you have the K-H disks) and replace it with the adjustable valve.
Also, remember that the output from the Master Cylinder nearest to the firewall is the front brakes.
I knew there was supposed to be the factory prop valve further down the line as I've heard of other people's woes when they try the KH swap; however, my friend told me that the lines going to the rear look fairly new so I'd have to check to see if the previous owners moved it over or just got rid of it (you know the quality of their "engineering"). So really, there's no need to swap the factory distribution block, because if not, that's one less thing to change/purchase.
Also, my friend made lines that on his Demon that had the lines moving from the distribution block, to the core support and then coming back to the passenger side instead of snaking through the firewall. If I do it this way, should I be worried about line pressure as the line going to the passenger side may end up being a couple feet longer. Basic fluid dynamics state the longer the line, the more losses a fluid endures as it travels it.
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Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install
[Re: MuuMuu101]
#1661375
09/03/14 11:17 PM
09/03/14 11:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482
Lake Orion, MI
goldduster318
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482
Lake Orion, MI
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Quote:
I knew there was supposed to be the factory prop valve further down the line as I've heard of other people's woes when they try the KH swap; however, my friend told me that the lines going to the rear look fairly new so I'd have to check to see if the previous owners moved it over or just got rid of it (you know the quality of their "engineering"). So really, there's no need to swap the factory distribution block, because if not, that's one less thing to change/purchase.
Also, my friend made lines that on his Demon that had the lines moving from the distribution block, to the core support and then coming back to the passenger side instead of snaking through the firewall. If I do it this way, should I be worried about line pressure as the line going to the passenger side may end up being a couple feet longer. Basic fluid dynamics state the longer the line, the more losses a fluid endures as it travels it.
Right, the factory block is basically empty and is basically a convenient T fitting with a warning light unless its a 73+ car.
As far as the length of the line - you are mentioning the resistance to flow caused by length and bends, but this really isn't a concern with incompressible fluids and relatively small amounts of flow. We're talking a front caliper using maybe 4cc of fluid at 200 bar. The longer line may cause a very small amount of hydraulic delay, but I would not be concerned. Pressure will of course be the same in a steady state apply. The current 300/Charger/Challenger have very long TMC to ESC module pipes and also pipes that run from the ESC module to the left front wheel that are also very long and run across the core support.
That being said, I see no reason to remove them from the firewall. If anything, the firewall allows you to use less tube, has hangars, and is less likely to flex ever.
'70 Duster 470hp 340/T56 Magnum/8 3/4 3.23 Sure-Grip
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Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install
[Re: goldduster318]
#1661376
09/03/14 11:21 PM
09/03/14 11:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101
OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
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OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
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Quote:
That being said, I see no reason to remove them from the firewall. If anything, the firewall allows you to use less tube, has hangars, and is less likely to flex ever.
The guy in question is a perfectionist and gives a lot of time and attention to detail. When he did his Demon, he virtually wanted to have the cleanest firewall possible.
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Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install
[Re: MuuMuu101]
#1661378
09/03/14 11:54 PM
09/03/14 11:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101
OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
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OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
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Quote:
Can anyone recommend me an adjustable valve I can purchase? Summit maybe? Or is this something I can pick up at Autozone?
Summit seems to sell these kits with a knob I guess you mount on your dash. They look interesting to say the least. I doubt I'd adjust it much at all unless I get serious at the track.
http://www.summitracing.com/search/depar...Order=Ascending
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Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install
[Re: MuuMuu101]
#1661379
09/04/14 12:00 AM
09/04/14 12:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482
Lake Orion, MI
goldduster318
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482
Lake Orion, MI
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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g3905That's really all you need. It's identical to the wilwood one. I have the older version. You'll only need to really set it up once. A wet or loose stone road...make sure the fronts lock with the rears or just slightly before the rears.
'70 Duster 470hp 340/T56 Magnum/8 3/4 3.23 Sure-Grip
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Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install
[Re: feets]
#1661381
09/04/14 12:28 AM
09/04/14 12:28 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101
OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
|
OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
|
Quote:
Quote:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g3905
That's really all you need. It's identical to the wilwood one. I have the older version.
That's what I had in the hot rod.
Sweet! Exactly what I was looking for.
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Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install
[Re: MuuMuu101]
#1661382
09/06/14 12:17 AM
09/06/14 12:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,323
NY NY
340duster340
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,323
NY NY
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there is another style prop valve that has the rear adjust and front T integrated into one unit http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-260-11179/overview/but...FWIW, if it were my car, i would run a 73-6 disc prop valve (you can get them new on ebay for $79), and order pre-bent lines for a 73 duster and get the thing back together.
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Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install
[Re: MuuMuu101]
#1661383
09/06/14 12:54 AM
09/06/14 12:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi
Penguin-hating Ginger
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Penguin-hating Ginger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g3905
That's really all you need. It's identical to the wilwood one. I have the older version.
That's what I had in the hot rod.
Sweet! Exactly what I was looking for.
If you haven't ordered it yet, think I might have an old one you can have I had pulled out of some car or other. 
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Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install
[Re: OzHemi]
#1661384
09/06/14 03:37 AM
09/06/14 03:37 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101
OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
|
OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g3905
That's really all you need. It's identical to the wilwood one. I have the older version.
That's what I had in the hot rod.
Sweet! Exactly what I was looking for.
If you haven't ordered it yet, think I might have an old one you can have I had pulled out of some car or other.
I already ordered it and it came in today.
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Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install
[Re: MuuMuu101]
#1661387
09/06/14 06:44 PM
09/06/14 06:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101
OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
|
OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
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Got a little more work done today. We finished the lines on the differential, installed the shocks, and torqued everything down. We were having trouble removing the lines from the distribution block up front. There's not much room to clear a wrench between the steering box and the exhaust. So, we may just end up cutting it and going over to the original idea of bringing the line around the frame rails and core support with a T-block. While we're at it we're going to have to redo the lines that go from the front to the rear to the car as they cross the path of the subframe connectors.
I also am going to start cleaning the LCA's sometime this week. I've still got to remove the strut rods (don't have the tooling to get enough torque to remove the nut), weld on a bumpstop bracket (the spot welds broke off), weld on the stiffening plates, and install the pin and bushings. Once the front lines are done, the front suspension can slowly be assembled.
All the work isn't going to get done before the September 25th, but hopefully we can finish it off before Fall Fling, October 25th.
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Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install
[Re: MuuMuu101]
#1661388
09/06/14 06:56 PM
09/06/14 06:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482
Lake Orion, MI
goldduster318
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482
Lake Orion, MI
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Cut the lines off near the nuts and then put a socket over them. You're tossing them anyway, so why not?
'70 Duster 470hp 340/T56 Magnum/8 3/4 3.23 Sure-Grip
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Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install
[Re: goldduster318]
#1661389
09/06/14 06:57 PM
09/06/14 06:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101
OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
|
OP
I got lucky at Woodward!
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
|
Quote:
Cut the lines off near the nuts and then put a socket over them. You're tossing them anyway, so why not?
Good point...
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