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Pinion angle #1651232
07/26/14 12:37 PM
07/26/14 12:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 34,869
S.E. South Dakota !
bigdad Offline OP
Still Posting A Lot
bigdad  Offline OP
Still Posting A Lot

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 34,869
S.E. South Dakota !


The lips of fools bring them strife, and their mouths invite a beating.Proverbs 18:6
Re: Pinion angle [Re: bigdad] #1651233
07/26/14 12:42 PM
07/26/14 12:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082
St. Paul , Mn.
tubtar Offline
master
tubtar  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,082
St. Paul , Mn.
That's it. I'm gettin me one of those !

Re: Pinion angle [Re: bigdad] #1651234
07/26/14 01:05 PM
07/26/14 01:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
DoctorDiff Offline
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DoctorDiff  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
Note how smooth the U-joints rotate when the pinion becomes PARALLEL to the transmission (motor side in this example).

Re: Pinion angle [Re: bigdad] #1651235
07/26/14 02:41 PM
07/26/14 02:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
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Crizila  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
I'm at a loss for snide remarks.


Fastest 300
Re: Pinion angle [Re: Crizila] #1651236
07/26/14 03:28 PM
07/26/14 03:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
T
Thumperdart Offline
I Live Here
Thumperdart  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
Quote:

I'm at a loss for snide remarks.


He`s trying very hard to be convincing surrounded by all of his plaques/awards...........too funny.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Pinion angle [Re: DoctorDiff] #1651237
07/27/14 12:17 AM
07/27/14 12:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
S
Sport440 Offline
master
Sport440  Offline
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S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Quote:

Note how smooth the U-joints rotate when the pinion becomes PARALLEL to the transmission (motor side in this example).





There are even Better vids out there then this one.

It doesnt take a Vid for me to understand that a PARALLEL driveline angle is what to shoot for even if its on a different plane.

You can tell the doubters, about the vids, but they dont want to see them. Why, because, they dont want to kmow that they were wrong or really didnt truly understand, this pinion angle thing. Another human Ego fault I guess.


Fact, Ujoints work best in a parallel plane, even if that plane isnt on the same exact plane, as long as both are parallel. Period!!

Re: Pinion angle [Re: Sport440] #1651238
07/27/14 12:47 AM
07/27/14 12:47 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
T
Thumperdart Offline
I Live Here
Thumperdart  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
Quote:

Quote:

Note how smooth the U-joints rotate when the pinion becomes PARALLEL to the transmission (motor side in this example).





There are even Better vids out there then this one.

It doesnt take a Vid for me to understand that a PARALLEL driveline angle is what to shoot for even if its on a different plane.

You can tell the doubters, about the vids, but they dont want to see them. Why, because, they dont want to kmow that they were wrong or really didnt truly understand, this pinion angle thing. Another human Ego fault I guess.


Fact, Ujoints work best in a parallel plane, even if that plane isnt on the same exact plane, as long as both are parallel. Period!!




Unfortunately leaf-spring street cars have to find a happy medium...........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Pinion angle [Re: Thumperdart] #1651239
07/27/14 01:15 AM
07/27/14 01:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
S
Sport440 Offline
master
Sport440  Offline
master
S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



Fact, Ujoints work best in a parallel plane, even if that plane isnt on the same exact plane, as long as both are parallel. Period!!




Unfortunately leaf-spring street cars have to find a happy medium...........






Absolutely, we shoot for the "happy medium" as our leaf spring cars are and have dynamic movement. Im glad you used the word happy

The "Central" controversy of the pinion angle debate is how you adjust that "happy medium"

1, "drive shaft/ pinion centerline"

2, "tranny centerline/pinion centerline"

One of those is the Best and most accurate way to set for the best "happy medium"

The other is a attempt to set a "happy medium"
between the drive shaft/pinion centerline" with no reguards to the actual true driveline angles. Setting things blindly so to speak.

You want to know where Both angles are at, Not just one.

Edit, There are Two Ujoints, not just one. We need to keep them "Both Happy" Neither are happy if you set up for one. Both need to be considered.

Last edited by Sport440; 07/27/14 01:20 AM.
Re: Pinion angle [Re: Sport440] #1651240
07/27/14 01:23 AM
07/27/14 01:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
T
Thumperdart Offline
I Live Here
Thumperdart  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
State of confusion
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



Fact, Ujoints work best in a parallel plane, even if that plane isnt on the same exact plane, as long as both are parallel. Period!!




Unfortunately leaf-spring street cars have to find a happy medium...........






Absolutely, we shoot for the "happy medium" as our leaf spring cars are and have dynamic movement. Im glad you used the word happy

The "Central" controversy of the pinion angle debate is how you adjust that "happy medium"

1, "drive shaft/ pinion centerline"

2, "tranny centerline/pinion centerline"

One of those is the Best and most accurate way to set for the best "happy medium"

The other is a attempt to set a "happy medium"
between the drive shaft/pinion centerline" with no reguards to the actual true driveline angles. Setting things blindly so to speak.

You want to know where Both angles are at, Not just one.

Edit, There are Two Ujoints, not just one. We need to keep them "Both Happy" Neither are happy if you set up for one. Both need to be considered.




I measure three areas; ft. u-joint to trans(no less than 1 degree), rear end and rear u-joint and the most critical to me, trans to rear end............fun stuff..........


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Pinion angle [Re: Thumperdart] #1651241
07/27/14 09:35 AM
07/27/14 09:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
master
B G Racing  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
Very informative in a perfect world I would like to see a similar demostration with shock travel up and down,pinion movement under accelaration and decellaration as well as drive train alignment or mis alignment side to side as well as other issues that are found in a race car chassis.In mechanical engineering class some 47 years ago we had a professor build some thing similar with the final joint attached to a fixture that was spring loaded so that it could be tilted similar to pinion rotation and move up and down like shock travel and a adjustable base to simulate different aligmnents.He also had sensors and indicaters to graph the effects of these angles for vibrations(harmonics) and paracitic drag or power lose.All the movements could be controlled by a series of levers while the assembly was under power.If memory serves me correctly his class on drive train dyanamics was funded by GM.Ford and Chrysler.

Re: Pinion angle [Re: B G Racing] #1651242
07/27/14 12:54 PM
07/27/14 12:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
DoctorDiff Offline
master
DoctorDiff  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
If the transmission and pinion are mis-aligned side to side, U-joints still operate as smoothly as possible when the pinion becomes parallel to the transmission.

I ran an offset (motor-home) rear in my Dodge truck for years this way.

The rule of thumb is no more than 4 degrees up during acceleration, or 4 degrees down during braking (pinion relative to the transmission center-line).







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