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Re: AFCO DOUBLE SETTINGS
[Re: 440W8 Duster]
#1646891
07/18/14 10:10 AM
07/18/14 10:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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With the leverage of the SS springs to start with, the shocks probably were close to too weak at the tightest setting, then when you moved the shocks forward that reduced the control maybe as much as 30 percent.
It is hard to tell, but I see a lot of separation at the rear, then spin a short ways out which is probably why the front drops back down so fast. I would put the shocks back where they were then try them full stiff like I suggested earlier. If things improve at those settings, then get worse as you loosen them, send them in for stiffer valveing.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: AFCO DOUBLE SETTINGS
[Re: gregsdart]
#1646892
07/18/14 10:46 AM
07/18/14 10:46 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
deaks
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
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Surely if it's spinning after the hit, i just need to tighten the compression up more ? , or are you saying i should slow the seperation down by tightening the extension.
2 runs after the vid i tightened the ext and comp 4 clicks and the 60ft dropped from 1.43 to 1.41.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: AFCO DOUBLE SETTINGS
[Re: deaks]
#1646893
07/18/14 11:20 AM
07/18/14 11:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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My thinking is to find out if the shocks have enough control the way they are valved now. I suggested going full stiff on extension to see what would happen, then loosen them to see if it gets better or worse. That would tell you if you need a shock that can be tightened up more on extension than what you have now.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: AFCO DOUBLE SETTINGS
[Re: gregsdart]
#1646894
07/18/14 12:56 PM
07/18/14 12:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
cudadon
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
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Mick do you have a trans brake? If so try raising the launch rpm to 3200 it will HIT the tire harder. That was a good spot for me when I had SS springs, and then Cal tracs. I also agree with MrP and Gregs dart. Do you have access to Dave Morgans Door Slammers chassis book? Some of the info is outdated, but it explains moving the shocks and it's effect on the leverage. That also effects the spring rate also. If I had a scanner I would email it to you. The placement of the shocks is very important in choosing spring rates. Your car looks good, and that looks like a good track.  Don
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Re: AFCO DOUBLE SETTINGS
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1646896
07/18/14 02:53 PM
07/18/14 02:53 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
deaks
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
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Greg I would like to think that there's enough valving because i dont want to send them back to the US. Don No transbrake, i just flash it from around 2500. I might look into buying that. Thanks for the remark, the car may look good from that far away but it's getting scruffy up close, i will try and get it painted in the next year. The track is one of the best in europe. Monte Please dont take this wrong but you suggest starting at 3/4 from full tight which would indicate around 10, then suggest not to loosen my car up, when on the vid i had the ext 24 from full soft. I have softened the ext to see what happens next time out but comp is about the same. Thanks for the advice, please add to this as it helps me to understand what affect these changes make. Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: AFCO DOUBLE SETTINGS
[Re: deaks]
#1646897
07/18/14 04:16 PM
07/18/14 04:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,499
San Antonio,TX
440W8 Duster
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,499
San Antonio,TX
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Quote:
Greg
I would like to think that there's enough valving because i dont want to send them back to the US.
Don
No transbrake, i just flash it from around 2500.
I might look into buying that. Thanks for the remark, the car may look good from that far away but it's getting scruffy up close, i will try and get it painted in the next year. The track is one of the best in europe.
Monte
Please dont take this wrong but you suggest starting at 3/4 from full tight which would indicate around 10, then suggest not to loosen my car up, when on the vid i had the ext 24 from full soft.
I have softened the ext to see what happens next time out but comp is about the same.
Thanks for the advice, please add to this as it helps me to understand what affect these changes make.
Mick
no is will be 30 clicks not 10 clicks.
30 clicks from full soft is what monte is saying.
Last edited by 440W8 Duster; 07/18/14 04:18 PM.
70 Duster W8 motor.
1.29 60ft 5.79 1/8 at 120 mph
glide with 1.80 gear
@3170 lbs.
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Re: AFCO DOUBLE SETTINGS
[Re: 440W8 Duster]
#1646898
07/19/14 09:16 AM
07/19/14 09:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,916
A shed in England
Tig
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,916
A shed in England
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Hi Mick. We've had Afco's on front and rear from the start of the season and we're just getting to see what happens with what settings, we've managed to accumulate some useful, though rough data. The first thing we've learn't is to get the slick pressure correct, we're running more pressure than we ever have lately. Also don't get too hung up on the 60ft times if you want to go quicker, we've discovered our car et's and mphs better with some spin off the line. We set the car up to do medium wheelies last weekend, just dropping the front at the 60ft and the 60ft times were great, approaching 60ft pb's but the car wouldn't mph and et like it should have done, even in those conditions. We left it at medium wheelie setting because the car was pulling the tyres out of the lights and we were getting too close to the red (all of them were o.o with some o.oo's too). Eventually we did go red (0.009?) in the semi's   So far on our car we've learnt that good 60ft = good reactions, slower mph and slightly slower et's. Controlling the rear rise with ext damping helped considerably and works alongside with tyre pressure (watch for excess wadding or slamming the tyre into the ground). Compression can be used to induce or control some spin further off the line. Of course this all works in conjunction with what the front does and if wheelie bars are fitted, we're still finding out stuff but a lot of what being said on this forum works in practice on our car. Here's a typical launch from the weekend, Courtesy of Richard Smith, we still think we can do with a little more air in the rears http://rdsmith.zenfolio.com/dragstalgia-2014/e1eb00eef
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: AFCO DOUBLE SETTINGS
[Re: 440W8 Duster]
#1646899
07/19/14 10:37 AM
07/19/14 10:37 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Greg
I would like to think that there's enough valving because i dont want to send them back to the US.
Don
No transbrake, i just flash it from around 2500.
I might look into buying that. Thanks for the remark, the car may look good from that far away but it's getting scruffy up close, i will try and get it painted in the next year. The track is one of the best in europe.
Monte
Please dont take this wrong but you suggest starting at 3/4 from full tight which would indicate around 10, then suggest not to loosen my car up, when on the vid i had the ext 24 from full soft.
I have softened the ext to see what happens next time out but comp is about the same.
Thanks for the advice, please add to this as it helps me to understand what affect these changes make.
Mick
no is will be 30 clicks not 10 clicks.
30 clicks from full soft is what monte is saying.
This must be the difference from the 2 sides of the pond..
here on this side we say X number of clicks from
the Softest setting and what I see is on the other
side of the pond they tend to say X number of clicks
from the stiffest setting... so when we say(USA)
X number of clicks we are talking from 0(softest)..
I'm sure you heard guys saying on their Rancho shocks
setting at 8 or 9.. 9 is the max tight
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Re: AFCO DOUBLE SETTINGS
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1646900
07/19/14 10:58 AM
07/19/14 10:58 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
deaks
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
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HI Tig
Thanks for your input, what pressure do you run in your tyres and are they stiff wall hoosiers ?
While we are taliking could you either post the weather conditions from last week or pm them to me. I'm just tyring to get a handle on the car's performance and the conditions, you looked to be about .2 off your pb if i'm not wrong. BTW, I had 13.5 psi n my CO7 Hoosiers.
Mr P
I think you could well be right, certain points can get lost in translation, that's why i ask for clarification sometimes.
If the track conditions are good again, i'm now thinking of tightening the extension at least 4 clicks to 32 from soft to start with and perhaps leave the comp where it was last time.
I realise if the extension is loose the comp needs to be stiff to keep the tyres planted but not sure quite where it needs to be if the ext is tight.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: AFCO DOUBLE SETTINGS
[Re: deaks]
#1646901
07/19/14 11:10 AM
07/19/14 11:10 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
HI Tig
Thanks for your input, what pressure do you run in your tyres and are they stiff wall hoosiers ?
While we are taliking could you either post the weather conditions from last week or pm them to me. I'm just tyring to get a handle on the car's performance and the conditions, you looked to be about .2 off your pb if i'm not wrong. BTW, I had 13.5 psi n my CO7 Hoosiers.
Mr P
I think you could well be right, certain points can get lost in translation, that's why i ask for clarification sometimes.
If the track conditions are good again, i'm now thinking of tightening the extension at least 4 clicks to 32 from soft to start with and perhaps leave the comp where it was last time.
I realise if the extension is loose the comp needs to be stiff to keep the tyres planted but not sure quite where it needs to be if the ext is tight.
Mick
For now I would leave the compression side where you are
and work on the extension side.. lots of video.. also
get someone to video so the camera is getting a 1/4ing
angle from the rear so you can see the rear and the
front tires and get the camera pretty close(camera
should be just off the quarter panel when your on
the line.. a tripod really helps)
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Re: AFCO DOUBLE SETTINGS
[Re: deaks]
#1646902
07/19/14 12:13 PM
07/19/14 12:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,916
A shed in England
Tig
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,916
A shed in England
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Quote:
HI Tig
Thanks for your input, what pressure do you run in your tyres and are they stiff wall hoosiers ?
While we are taliking could you either post the weather conditions from last week or pm them to me. I'm just tyring to get a handle on the car's performance and the conditions, you looked to be about .2 off your pb if i'm not wrong. BTW, I had 13.5 psi n my CO7 Hoosiers.
Mick
Tyres were 14.5 psi in the lanes, M/T's 3062 normal bias ply with tubes.
D/A (density altitude) was around 1500ft most of the time and as hi as 2500ft on Saturday afternoon, (on our station). 1500 costs us roughly a 10th. Our best times are set in -ve D/A (-800ft IIRC) In last weekends weather we, should have been hi 9.60's. Best et of the weekend was 9.75 D/A at around 1500, a little slow due to weather and chassis set up.
HTH's
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: AFCO DOUBLE SETTINGS ( UPDATE )
[Re: deaks]
#1646905
10/09/14 08:34 PM
10/09/14 08:34 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
deaks
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
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Well i thought i would update my shock adjustment results. I did 8 runs and tried different settings on nearly every run. I started on the above settings and ended up with the best results on ext between 12 and 16 from soft and the comp at 24 from soft this gave me back to back 1.40 60 ft's which i managed to repeat on my next outing with the same settings. Here is a link to one of my best runs, i'm launching about 4 mins in a met orange Dart, before anyone mentions it, yes i know i've got a bit of a bumpsteer problem but i'm looking for observations on what the car is doing and any suggestions for possible improvements. Launch method is flash stall from around 2000 rpm, car has ultimate 5000 converter. Mick http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmLeKEeJGUs
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: AFCO DOUBLE SETTINGS ( UPDATE )
[Re: deaks]
#1646906
10/09/14 09:49 PM
10/09/14 09:49 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 469
Tennessee
steeldust
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 469
Tennessee
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Has anyone run Afco double adjustable shocks on a stock front end on a DUSTER will they clear the frame ? I got to stop the wheelies without bars. Thanks
Last edited by steeldust; 10/09/14 09:50 PM.
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Re: AFCO DOUBLE SETTINGS
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1646908
10/10/14 12:09 AM
10/10/14 12:09 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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On my dart I had to cut the lip off for the bump stop plate on frame rail.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
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![8296098-10653671_10201571558129941_885380876871372220_n[1].jpg](/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/169161/filename/8296098-10653671_10201571558129941_885380876871372220_n[1].jpg){kind=link}