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Re: 383 to 440 swap question.
[Re: therocks]
#1639708
06/29/14 11:37 AM
06/29/14 11:37 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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Source heads are ok. Source stroker kits are ok. but stay away from Source roller rockers!!!
a 383 block, good heads, and a 431 or 470 kit will be more than enough for what you want.
make 500+ hp on pump gas and be able to drive it across the country in any weather.
I drove the 383 stroker I built from Dayton to Pittsburgh (5 hours one way) in February in 20 and 30 degree temps with no problems, repeated the same trip in 80 degree weather, no problems.
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: 383 to 440 swap question.
[Re: RodStRace]
#1639711
06/29/14 06:56 PM
06/29/14 06:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 36,840
South San Francisco, Californi...
MidPenMopar
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Quote:
Stu, I know you don't have the time, knowledge and space to do a full build, but these guys are steering you right.
Do a 383/400 stroker build on the side or find a GOOD USED one while the current 383 makes it through the summer. Swap it out this winter or when the new build is done.
I've got a couple bare 400 blocks you could choose from. I'd donate one to you for the cause to get you started. Just need to get it to your place or the builder of your choice.
I will mention that you should price out the entire thing in parts, machining and shipping before you leap. That way you can keep an eye out for deals on parts or complete engines.
That is super nice of you!! I am planning on doing the rebuild this winter and the timing will have to be right as the car will go into my buddies and he cant let it be there for very long.
One of the Moparts members on here offered to do a rebuild at his place back east and i was going to go that route but i think the logistics of it may be too tough to get past.
I have asked around and in the entire SF Bay Area i can not find any one shop that any two people will recommend as good.
One of my good trusted friends owns an engine rebuilding shop and even he said go somewhere else.
Do you have an engine builder down there that you trust??
The other factor is do i really need a complete rebuild or maybe it just needs a good going though. Like new rings, cam, lifters and a valve job??
There is no bad noises from the bottom end and the engine runs flawlessly. It starts perfectly and never misses a beat, doesn't overheat at all, just uses oil quickly, and fouls two or three of plugs. The rest of the other six plugs look perfectly fine.
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Re: 383 to 440 swap question.
[Re: MidPenMopar]
#1639712
06/29/14 07:06 PM
06/29/14 07:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,672
Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,672
Wichita
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As long as you're keeping it simple (sounds like you are) then it's pretty easy to do yourself. Especially if you order up a complete rotating assebly and complete heads! I used to build my own in a tiny 1 car garage years ago and had to move the car every time I worked on it but it was one of the best 440's I put together! Take your time, clean everything and measure your clearances! It sounds like a stroked 400 would be perfect for what you're wanting to do along with 440 Source heads and rotating assembly. People [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] about them but every part I've ever purchased from there has been really nice and bolted up perfectly! 7 quart pan, pickup, pullies, water pump, housing, alternator brackets and billet thermostat housing were all great. 
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Re: 383 to 440 swap question.
[Re: GY3]
#1639713
06/29/14 07:16 PM
06/29/14 07:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 36,840
South San Francisco, Californi...
MidPenMopar
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Quote:
Take your time, clean everything and measure your clearances!
I don't have the technical expernce, tools or a garage to do it in are some of the issues though. Heck i had to have a buddy come over and install my headers when i sent them out to be re coated as i cant get under the car anymore due my beat up body. So must shop out the whole thing.
Its tough getting older.
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Re: 383 to 440 swap question.
[Re: MidPenMopar]
#1639715
06/29/14 07:24 PM
06/29/14 07:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,672
Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,672
Wichita
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Quote:
Quote:
Take your time, clean everything and measure your clearances!
I don't have the technical expernce, tools or a garage to do it in are some of the issues though. Heck i had to have a buddy come over and install my headers when i sent them out to be re coated as i cant get under the car anymore due my beat up body. So must shop out the whole thing.
Its tough getting older.
Yeah, too bad you don't live closer.
We have a pretty close knit group of guys and we help each other out.
I'd gladly put it together for you. 
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Re: 383 to 440 swap question.
[Re: MidPenMopar]
#1639716
06/29/14 07:26 PM
06/29/14 07:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Take your time, clean everything and measure your clearances!
I don't have the technical expernce, tools or a garage to do it in are some of the issues though. Heck i had to have a buddy come over and install my headers when i sent them out to be re coated as i cant get under the car anymore due my beat up body. So must shop out the whole thing.
Its tough getting older.
You're younger than I am...by a few months. I've got more room to work, though. Got to be a good shop in the Bay Area, somewhere...
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Re: 383 to 440 swap question.
[Re: RSNOMO]
#1639717
06/29/14 07:34 PM
06/29/14 07:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 36,840
South San Francisco, Californi...
MidPenMopar
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Quote:
How 'tired' is this engine???
Are you basing the need for a rebuild based on this apparent oil consumption issue???
Has anyone checked it out???
Compression and leakdown test???
I am on the waiting list at my buddies shop to go a leakdown and compression test to find out how things are in the engine. Now that i am really ready to do something this year.
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Re: 383 to 440 swap question.
[Re: MidPenMopar]
#1639718
06/29/14 10:15 PM
06/29/14 10:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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Stu. I'm still game, but like you said, the logistics are the hard part. Although freight shipping would 'only' be another $200-300 ontop of what would be a $5-6k build (if you're looking at strokers and aluminum heads, etc.). Our previous conversations were about a peppy stock stroke 383
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: 383 to 440 swap question.
[Re: MidPenMopar]
#1639721
06/30/14 02:51 AM
06/30/14 02:51 AM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
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Quote:
Do you have an engine builder down there that you trust??
There is one high-end builder that I've met and talked to, but have not had any work done. I have not found any others here I would trust. I don't think it would be reasonable to have him do a mild street build.
http://falconerengines.com/falconer_v12.php
These are both core blocks that require a full cleaning and would require at least boring, if not align hone or boring and decking. I would hope they are in reasonable shape and useable, but may end up being money pits. I haven't had them cleaned/checked.
Quote:
The other factor is do i really need a complete rebuild or maybe it just needs a good going though. Like new rings, cam, lifters and a valve job??
Price out what it's going to cost to freshen up your current engine. Figure on a complete gasket set, belly pan, freeze plugs, timing set, oil pump and pickup, rings, cam and lifters, and rod bolts, then add possible bearings, pistons and pins (if bores are worn), pushrods and rockers (if wanted), then add machine shop charges for dis-assembly, cleaning, crack checking, crank polishing (or grinding), hone (maybe boring), surface and valve job (maybe guides), rod bolt install and reconditioning, piston install, and assembly.
Add in fluids, belts, hoses, pumps (fuel and water) if needed, and paint/chrome. Add any further upgrades you would like to see (those rockers mentioned). Total it all up and you will have a base to compare. Always expect add-ons once it's apart, and don't forget the time down, and pulling/installing.
You can compare it to stuff like the 451 that one poster in this thread has listed in the swap meet section. There are other builders here to talk to and decide what you can afford and what your expectations are. I'd do some homework on costs first so you have some idea what they have to offer and the costs before you call or PM.
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Re: 383 to 440 swap question.
[Re: MidPenMopar]
#1639722
06/30/14 10:53 AM
06/30/14 10:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Only things I can think of are the intake manifold and the distributor. If there are headers on the 383 then may not work with the 440 because of the height and width difference of where the headers bolt to the heads. A possible clearance issue.
Next
Oh the headers may not fit??
Stu you are going to have to lose that X pipe looking thing you have on there, lucky for you ... 
As said , other than the intake and the distributor everything else swaps over. most all headers , other than maybe TTi's , are made to fit 383's AND 440's in the same, and most times , multiple , body platforms ... but if you have a welded H or X pipe they will only fit either a 383 or a 440.
What are you using for an air cleaner ? If it's a stock Ari grabber type that will not swap over.
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Re: 383 to 440 swap question.
[Re: MidPenMopar]
#1639723
06/30/14 11:00 AM
06/30/14 11:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
The other factor is do i really need a complete rebuild or maybe it just needs a good going though. Like new rings, cam, lifters and a valve job??
once you get into what is involved in doing rings you are pretty much in for a Complete rebuild.
Is the engine currently in the car the original engine ?
Also as sad if you are going to change out to roller rockers, not really needed but they sound cool, stay away from any of the cheap Chinese junk rockers.
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Re: 383 to 440 swap question.
[Re: JohnRR]
#1639724
06/30/14 02:51 PM
06/30/14 02:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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It seems that quality rockers for the B/RB start at $400.00.
In my book it's too much and in order to need the rockers you'd have to build an engine much hotter than what you seem to want.
I'd use cam no bigger than the Comp XE275HL and keep the stock rockers.
I'd keep it a 383 block, they are quite reasonable in price for the bare block. Keep overbore to a minimum to keep nice stiff cylinder walls. Use the 440Source stroker kit and heads. Shoot for 10.0 compression with the aluminum heads, it will run on pump premium and might run on mid-grade.
Here's some don'ts:
Don't put a dime into your stock heads until you get a written quote for the total cost. That's if you are tempted to use the stock heads. Keep in mind that the bigblock head doesn't flow any more than a good 340 head, stock. The aluminum heads can be worth up to 80hp over the stockers, stock for stock, and will make a smaller cam pull like a larger cam.
Don't use stock Mopar rods, or for that matter rod journal size. Stock Mopar rods and pistons are clubs and should be replaced with lighter, stronger parts. Use the bigblock chevy rod journal, which fits a longer stroke inside the crankcase without requiring much grindiing, also reducing the diameter of the rod journal cuts bearing speed and journal weight, which has to be accelerated.
Don't listen to the big cam guys here, you are not building a race motor. Or at least I don't think you are.
Don't buy into the thought that strokers are somehow "different". They are just larger versions of the same motor. In the 70s there were hundreds of thousands of oldses and pontiacs and cadillacs that came off the line with strokes of 4.21, 4.25, and 4.31. They had cams with durations no longer than 232@ 50 lift, and car writers at the time blasted the longer-duration cams for hurting driveability. We've come a long way since then, but I'd put 232 degrees at 50 lift as the upper limit of the intake lobe.
Don't think you can buy ANY stroker kit or set of aftermarket heads without measuring everything, and checking clearances. Even if you buy a balanced kit. A balanced kit is just that, balanced. Nobody "just happened" to check the clearances as they were picking up the pieces to weigh them.
Don't think you need deep gears for a stroker street car. You'll have trouble getting it to hook on the street with 3.55s or 3.23s.
Good luck with your project.
R.
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Re: 383 to 440 swap question.
[Re: dogdays]
#1639725
06/30/14 08:23 PM
06/30/14 08:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 36,840
South San Francisco, Californi...
MidPenMopar
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Hey guys thank you for all the advice! I did alot of calling around and found a one man shop that is can do the job. He has done work on Herbs GTX and is pretty much a total Mopar only gearhead. Which is what i was looking for. He said he will do the R&R as well so any issues arise they will all be on him. Have not discussed prices yet though. I am going to use my original factory 383 and i think i will invest in the aluminum heads as the main upgrade. I want to drop my way to radical cam that a previous owner installed for one that i don't need to run a vacuum pump to feed my power disc brakes. I would like to find my most power at say 1500 to 3500 RPM. Oh and JOHNRR the X-pipe was tossed years ago for a standard 3 inch H-pipe.  Stu
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Re: 383 to 440 swap question.
[Re: MidPenMopar]
#1639726
06/30/14 09:08 PM
06/30/14 09:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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Since you're going for reliability first and good power second, I'd rebuild the 383 without stroking it.
A set of pistons riding high in the bore, Eddy heads, and a good moderate cam will easily crank out solid horsepower without sacrificing reliability or mileage.
A 383 can be a good stout piece.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: 383 to 440 swap question.
[Re: feets]
#1639727
06/30/14 09:23 PM
06/30/14 09:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 36,840
South San Francisco, Californi...
MidPenMopar
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Quote:
Since you're going for reliability first and good power second, I'd rebuild the 383 without stroking it.
A set of pistons riding high in the bore, Eddy heads, and a good moderate cam will easily crank out solid horsepower without sacrificing reliability or mileage.
A 383 can be a good stout piece.
Right now with the overdrive and 3:73 in the rear i am getting 20MPG on freeway at 60MPH. I hope with a tighter mill i will do even better! 
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