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Re: Putting glide behind a small block
[Re: 412 SB Duster]
#1634403
06/17/14 12:08 PM
06/17/14 12:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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A 904 is simply the fastest stock based trans out there. If you change over to a 2.28 low gear and the car slows you need more rear gear ratio to make up the difference. Same thing with powerglide. If your engine does not make enough torque to pull the higher gear you will not like the glide.
Powerglides are fine but if you are now running a 3.91 gear you will probable need a 4.30 to work with the glide.
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: Putting glide behind a small block
[Re: nitrousr]
#1634407
06/17/14 10:40 PM
06/17/14 10:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,499
San Antonio,TX
440W8 Duster
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,499
San Antonio,TX
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I have one in my car just for the consistency of it. The wheel stands are nice but they don't get you to the next round. Plus my car left to violent with the 727.I run the JW ultra case with roller tail shaft and Ultra Bell with a 1.80 first gear.It went 1.30 60ft and ran a 5.81 with a glide. http://youtu.be/RTDkU8WCjLo
Last edited by 440W8 Duster; 06/17/14 10:41 PM.
70 Duster W8 motor.
1.29 60ft 5.79 1/8 at 120 mph
glide with 1.80 gear
@3170 lbs.
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Re: Putting glide behind a small block
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1634409
06/18/14 07:13 PM
06/18/14 07:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 842
Baltimore,MD
Bill_LBSR
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 842
Baltimore,MD
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Just FYI, if you go with an ATI powerglide case and bell for a small block, make sure they include the spacer between the case and bellhousing.
LBSR
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Re: Putting glide behind a small block
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1634410
06/18/14 07:27 PM
06/18/14 07:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,705
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,705
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
With the RIGHT converter, it will pretty much be a wash on ET. It is after all called a TORQUE converter.........LOL!!!
Explain that one to me......
If you look at championship caliber 100 meter dash guys, the tall long legged guys usually make big steam in the last 50 meters, making the advantage up over the guys with shorter strides, but I drag racing that first half is everything, your generally not going to make up that lost ground from "leaving soft".
Last edited by B3422W5; 06/18/14 07:29 PM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: Putting glide behind a small block
[Re: Bill_LBSR]
#1634412
06/18/14 09:27 PM
06/18/14 09:27 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
fishy340
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
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Quote:
Just FYI, if you go with an ATI powerglide case and bell for a small block, make sure they include the spacer between the case and bellhousing.
Lol funny you should say that Bill  .I ordered the spacer and went to use it...And bam it was already there.
I have an extra if someone needs it... 
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Re: Putting glide behind a small block
[Re: fishy340]
#1634413
06/18/14 09:32 PM
06/18/14 09:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,705
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,705
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
NA sb's goin 1.11/ 12 is not soft. Three speeds might help slower heavy cars out i guess,
But saying a glide leaves soft is actualy cause the car aint right.
95% of chevys and stangs run glides or 2 speed 400's with so much success.If your lookin for thousand of a sec then yeah a proflite may be needed.JMO
I am talking about a car like the OP has.... I don't doubt making 1 less shift and having a trans with a much taller first gear will numb the launch and contribute to consistency, but I have a tough time believing it will 60 as well.
I think he already replaced the low gear in his 904 with the 2.45 gear to numb the hit...
I suspect those 1.11 and 1.12 60 foots are because the power glide is by nature going to be way more forgiving at ramping in power and masking traction issues than a 3 speed would.
Last edited by B3422W5; 06/18/14 09:44 PM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: Putting glide behind a small block
[Re: fishy340]
#1634414
06/18/14 10:02 PM
06/18/14 10:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036
bean town ....Ca
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here you go psca 2014 weight brakes if this is not proof. I can look up the nmca rules for you to. DEDUCT WEIGHT (In Percent of your Engine Cubic Inch Displacement) 10% For Single Carburetor Applications 10% For Pre-74 Full & Mid-size Entries 15% For a 2-speed Automatic Transmission (Big Blocks) 20% For a 2-speed Automatic Transmission (Small Blocks) it 1s at least a tenth maybe more. most people will not spend the time or money. to make a three speed work they will usually ride the wheelie bar to hard and kill ET a three speed with a flat first like a 2.08or 2.20 is where it is at for a small block
Last edited by WHITEDART; 06/18/14 10:17 PM.
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Re: Putting glide behind a small block
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#1634419
06/19/14 12:54 PM
06/19/14 12:54 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 481
Cheswick, PA
Bob_Spelic
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 481
Cheswick, PA
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I have been reading this and there is all good info. I have a 66 charger and a race tech dragster. I have always ran 727 in the charger. When I got the dragster I put a glide into it because a 727 shorty is a lot of money and only A&A does it. After running a glide for 5 years and servicing it, the glide is, in my opinion, the hands down winner for simplicity, and durability (with FULL aftermarket support for ANY internal component). You don’t see a glide T-Brake move once the button is pushed, NEVER, unless there is something internally wrong. They flat out lock down.
I would go the cut off stock case and the JW bell. I can speak with firsthand knowledge that the mopar mini starter fits, the RobbMC starter fits and any of the power master variants fit. The bell is right around $350. It is good for certification for 5 years. You will have to run a shield over the stock case but not the bell shield. I have been running a stock case glide into the 7.90’s for 5 years without issue. I open the trans early and this year was the first time it needed to have the clutches replaced. This is with about 150 to 200 runs per year (depending on how well I do). Like everyone says, converters are a glides best friend. If you know where your engine makes the highest torque and HP, all of the converter companies have been designing glide converters for hundreds or cars per year and they will hit the right converter for your combo.
Sorry to be so long winded.
Bob spelic
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Re: Putting glide behind a small block
[Re: Bob_Spelic]
#1634420
06/19/14 02:08 PM
06/19/14 02:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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I don't know where this idea that a car with a glide will be "lazy" or won't 60ft came from. That is FAR from the truth. Just because so and so put a glide in his car with the WRONG converter and the car was a slug early, doesn't make that scenario a fact.
Lots of gear, be it rear OR trans, lets you accelerate the car with rpm, which may or may not be the quickest way down the track, depending on your combo. With a taller gear in the trans or rear, it puts the onus of moving the car on the converter and it MUST be right. You want to USE the grunt the motor makes, be it a small or big block, and let that torque WORK the torque converter and move the car.
Also, guys put WAY too much emphasis on 60ft numbers. While they are important, they are NOT as important as 330 numbers. Now before anybody says a quicker 60ft always presents a faster 330......the reply to that is NO, it does NOT automatically work that way. How the car uses the power from 60 TO 330 is what makes those numbers good or bad.
So put a ton of gear in a low powered car and it MAY accelerate like a bandit for 100 feet or so, but then it is all done and flat on its face, because you topped the motor out very early. Now you put a taller gear in that same car, use the torque and make the car accelerate hard for a LONGER period of time and it WILL be quicker to 330, even though the 60 may not be quite as good. WAY more numbers on a time slip than the 60 and ET. Learn what those other numbers mean and what helps them. I will sacrifice a couple numbers in 60ft for the car to be in control and moving harder at 330 EVERY time
Monte
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Re: Putting glide behind a small block
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1634421
06/19/14 02:44 PM
06/19/14 02:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,705
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,705
Portage,michigan
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Quote:
I don't know where this idea that a car with a glide will be "lazy" or won't 60ft came from. That is FAR from the truth. Just because so and so put a glide in his car with the WRONG converter and the car was a slug early, doesn't make that scenario a fact.
Lots of gear, be it rear OR trans, lets you accelerate the car with rpm, which may or may not be the quickest way down the track, depending on your combo. With a taller gear in the trans or rear, it puts the onus of moving the car on the converter and it MUST be right. You want to USE the grunt the motor makes, be it a small or big block, and let that torque WORK the torque converter and move the car.
Also, guys put WAY too much emphasis on 60ft numbers. While they are important, they are NOT as important as 330 numbers. Now before anybody says a quicker 60ft always presents a faster 330......the reply to that is NO, it does NOT automatically work that way. How the car uses the power from 60 TO 330 is what makes those numbers good or bad.
So put a ton of gear in a low powered car and it MAY accelerate like a bandit for 100 feet or so, but then it is all done and flat on its face, because you topped the motor out very early. Now you put a taller gear in that same car, use the torque and make the car accelerate hard for a LONGER period of time and it WILL be quicker to 330, even though the 60 may not be quite as good. WAY more numbers on a time slip than the 60 and ET. Learn what those other numbers mean and what helps them. I will sacrifice a couple numbers in 60ft for the car to be in control and moving harder at 330 EVERY time
Monte
Hi Monte.... Always enjoy your posts.
That said, a lot of what you said above DOESNT apply to probably 80-90 percent of the guys on here, me included.
Car I am putting together has a 318 and will weigh 3400 pounds. I guarantee you if it doesn't 60 foot, it isn't going to make it up elsewhere.
A lot of weekend race cars are exactly like that, be they dual purpose cars or heavy cars that don't have 700-800 horse motors in them. A doggy 60 feet can create double the ET liability it creates when you get to the ET shack.
Sure some stuff can overcome a bad 60 foot because of having to pull power away on the hit, being a turbo car, or index car, or a whole variety of scenarios.
But most of us common folk know a bad 60 foot will kill a time slip.....
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
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Re: Putting glide behind a small block
[Re: B3422W5]
#1634422
06/19/14 03:23 PM
06/19/14 03:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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While that may be true, in this case the OP said it was all about "winning rounds", NOT laying down killer 60ft numbers. So if your only goal is to be consistent and win rounds, the 60ft is not really of any consequence, as long as the car does it the same every round. A two speed WILL be more consistent, I doubt many will dispute that.
My other responses were geared towards the "glide car won't 60ft" comments, that perpetuate EVERY thread on this board where a glide gets mentioned. Does EVERY car need a glide, of course not. But also does a car having a glide automatically make it a weak 60ft car...HELL no. So as with all things, a one size fits all scenario does not apply here.
One other thing......if you are a true bracket racer, that only cares about winning rounds and your car easily makes the ET break for the class and you can have good lights.......why would you care what it 60fts. Cut a light, run the number, drive the finish line, YOU WIN!!! A better 60ft never won a bracket race. What will be more consistent on a track to track basis......a car that goes low 1.30 60fts, but is on the edge or has the wheels 3 feet in the air, or the car that "drives off" and goes high 30 or low 40 60fts?
Rarely does getting every ounce of performance from your combo AND winning lots of rounds go hand in hand. A car "on the edge" is usually an inconsistent car. How many times a guy tell you "I lost 2 in the 60 and couldn't catch him".........when I bracket raced, I heard it every day at the track. And it was MY quest for ultimate performance that pushed me from brackets to heads up. I decided I wanted my car to be as fast as it could be, but I also started winning lots less rounds, because I was always "tinkering" instead of just standing pat and going rounds. Just have to decide what your goals are
Monte
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