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yaeh with your eyes Im sure that works real well you didn't even see the missing holes on your gaskets

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thats because they were missing

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Oh Lord.............not AGAIN...........LOL!!!

Monte

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don't worry i'll take the time and teach you next time you are down this way

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The real name is called a inclineometer but most
call it a angle finder

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what is the tool name and of the tool manafactor of the tool used to set the pinion angle with the driveshaft it is about 18 in long and you put up against the drive shaft and the pinion to get your angle and where can you get one THANKS

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What is the tool that Quicktree uses to set pinion angles? Quicktree.

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Yep quicktree is the tool to use

got to wonder,is there any kind of ban on exporting the famouns quicktree tool incase i ever need to get my pinionangle set right?

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What is the tool that Quicktree uses to set pinion angles? Quicktree.

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Yep quicktree is the tool to use

got to wonder,is there any kind of ban on exporting the famouns quicktree tool incase i ever need to get my pinionangle set right?

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watch it, i may just send you my tool

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What is the tool that Quicktree uses to set pinion angles? Quicktree.

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Yep quicktree is the tool to use

got to wonder,is there any kind of ban on exporting the famouns quicktree tool incase i ever need to get my pinionangle set right?

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watch it, i may just send you my tool

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Man no one ever needs to hear or even think of that!

The real way to set pinion angle is to adjust the front ride height until the pinion is at 3 degrees down or 7 with a leaf spring. If you can't get the front low enough then raise the back!

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What is the tool that Quicktree uses to set pinion angles? Quicktree.

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Yep quicktree is the tool to use

got to wonder,is there any kind of ban on exporting the famouns quicktree tool incase i ever need to get my pinionangle set right?

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watch it, i may just send you my tool

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Man no one ever needs to hear or even think of that!

The real way to set pinion angle is to adjust the front ride height until the pinion is at 3 degrees down or 7 with a leaf spring. If you can't get the front low enough then raise the back!

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you know what I really think about pinion angle some of these guys still don't get it..

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What is the tool that Quicktree uses to set pinion angles? Quicktree.

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Yep quicktree is the tool to use

got to wonder,is there any kind of ban on exporting the famouns quicktree tool incase i ever need to get my pinionangle set right?

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watch it, i may just send you my tool

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Man no one ever needs to hear or even think of that!

The real way to set pinion angle is to adjust the front ride height until the pinion is at 3 degrees down or 7 with a leaf spring. If you can't get the front low enough then raise the back!

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you know what I really think about pinion angle some of these guys still don't get it..

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Plenty of functional vids out on Youtube to show that you set it off of the parallel planes between the tranny centerline and the pinion centerline. Somebody link them up. A picture is worth a thousand words, a vid even more.

The driveshaft can become part of the equation because of overall operating angles. But not likely on our race cars, jacked up 4 wheel drives , yep.

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Plenty of functional vids out on Youtube to show that you set it off of the parallel planes between the tranny centerline and the pinion centerline. Somebody link them up. A picture is worth a thousand words, a vid even more.

The driveshaft can become part of the equation because of overall operating angles. But not likely on our race cars, jacked up 4 wheel drives , yep.

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Just because there are plenty of videos, doesn't mean they are right for a race car............remember, we are RACING here, not trying to make the joints last 100k miles

Monte

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When building race car point the pinion at the trans tail shaft then adjust the finish angle of the pinion to the driveshaft for the type of suspension used.

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Or just guess like Quicktree does!

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When building race car point the pinion at the trans tail shaft then adjust the finish angle of the pinion to the driveshaft for the type of suspension used.

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This is pretty much how I do it but I set the engine/trans
in the car and set the angle of the engine so it points
in a straight line(I use a laser in the rear main
and line it up on the pinion so its all in line).. then
when done roll the pinion to what is needed(1 or 2
degrees)

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When building race car point the pinion at the trans tail shaft then adjust the finish angle of the pinion to the driveshaft for the type of suspension used.

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Or just guess like Quicktree does!

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it works, just like all the other methods

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Plenty of functional vids out on Youtube to show that you set it off of the parallel planes between the tranny centerline and the pinion centerline. Somebody link them up. A picture is worth a thousand words, a vid even more.

The driveshaft can become part of the equation because of overall operating angles. But not likely on our race cars, jacked up 4 wheel drives , yep.

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Just because there are plenty of videos, doesn't mean they are right for a race car............remember, we are RACING here, not trying to make the joints last 100k miles

Monte

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See attached chart

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[q
See attached chart

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Sorry, but I don't need that worthless chart to know how to set the pinion angle in my race car.......LOL!!

Only ONE thing to remember in a race car......Angles eat power. So while "under power" the want the driveline in as straight a line as it can possibly be within the parameters of how the parts are mounted. Set pinion angle accordingly. NOTHING else matters.







Yep the goal is Parallel "under power" in a "straight line" like you say.

But , with the majority of the cars here, the Parallel wont be in a straight line.

Therefor, the same goal is to be Parallel "under power" even if the tranny centerline and pinion centerline are not pointed at one anther like some of you race car builders would do then adjust from that.

The Goal is the same.

The Argument,

Measure off the pinion/driveshaft

Measure off the pinion/trannycenterline.

IMO, If you havent pointed your tranny centerline to the pinion.

Measure tranny centerline VS pinion centerline.

80% of us here fit that.

If you built your ride for a Parallel tranny and pinion angle centerline setup, you can use the driveshaft method and be just as accurate.


Further, besides all of the above, there will be no perfect Pinion angle setup in the real Dynamic world for most of us here, the movement at the rear is pretty dynamic.

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See attached chart

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Sorry, but I don't need that worthless chart to know how to set the pinion angle in my race car.......LOL!!

Only ONE thing to remember in a race car......Angles eat power. So while "under power" the want the driveline in as straight a line as it can possibly be within the parameters of how the parts are mounted. Set pinion angle accordingly. NOTHING else matters.



Jeez, the only reason for posting that chart was to show that a driveshaft is NOT necessary to set pinion angle. This topic seems to get tempers flaring. Bottom line is trans and pinion need to be equal and opposite angles under full power. If trans centerline slopes 2° down toward rear of car then pinion needs to slope 2° up toward front of car under full power.

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On the chassis cars I build there is ZERO angle at
load.. no parallel of anything... its a straight line
as I said earlier in this

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See attached chart

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Sorry, but I don't need that worthless chart to know how to set the pinion angle in my race car.......LOL!!

Only ONE thing to remember in a race car......Angles eat power. So while "under power" the want the driveline in as straight a line as it can possibly be within the parameters of how the parts are mounted. Set pinion angle accordingly. NOTHING else matters.



Jeez, the only reason for posting that chart was to show that a driveshaft is NOT necessary to set pinion angle. This topic seems to get tempers flaring. Bottom line is trans and pinion need to be equal and opposite angles under full power. If trans centerline slopes 2° down toward rear of car then pinion needs to slope 2° up toward front of car under full power.

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On the chassis cars I build there is ZERO angle at
load.. no parallel of anything... its a straight line
as I said earlier in this

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That is great for people with the luxury of having a tube chassis but for cars using factory k member mounted engine and trans x member there is generally an angle to deal with. And in theory 0° is still an angular measurement and the equal and opposite angle is 0° LOL

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See attached chart

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I wasn't making the point that this was a circle track car.

My point was that they dyno'd a car (any car), and on the chassis dyno the equal and opposite angles made more horsepower to the tire then when they had the pinion set to 0 degree's.

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I dont know how that can be... if you have a engine/trans
in line with a solid shaft(no U-joints) to the diff
how can that eat power... basically we are trying
to eliminate the U-joints from the picture

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I've worked on plenty of lowered and backhalved cars with the engine/trans on stock mounts and angled down a couple of degrees or more front to rear. In order to get the pinion parallel with the trans, the pinion angle would have to go positive (definitely not acceptable).

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You're kind of stuck with the vertical rear u-joint location where it is. That's determined by the type of rear and tire size. A 9" with a 32" tire is around 13 3/4" off the ground. If you are able to install the engine/trans assembly in a location that allows the operating angles to be correct, while having the trans centerline parallel with the pinion centerline, that's great.

The "chart" is great except that it doesn't consider that the pinion centerline could be higher than the trans centerline with the front of the engine higher than the front u-joint. I've worked on plenty of lowered and backhalved cars with the engine/trans on stock mounts and angled down a couple of degrees or more front to rear. In order to get the pinion parallel with the trans, the pinion angle would have to go positive (definitely not acceptable). A lot of these cars end up with a "broken back" configuration to keep the pinon angle negative.

If the car was built with the driveline stringlined from the front of the crank, through the center of the trans, to the center of the pinion, it makes it easy. Most cars weren't and you have to work with what you have to maintain the pinion angle where it needs to be. Not a lot of wiggle room with the pinion angle. At some point, you have to live with it or move the engine/trans mounts. Stock front clip and/or stock floors? That makes it even tougher.

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Assuming we don't have the option to change crossmembers, ride heights, or anything else...

So if you have a trans that has 2 degree's to the driveshaft.

Options/opinions are:

1) Give the pinion 2 degree's (under load) to be equal and opposite of the trans.

or

2) Give the pinion 0 degree's under load "to the driveshaft so at least 1 of the joints is optimized.


That's basically the two opinions we're talking about here right?

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Number 1 is the correct method. Number 2 is the Incorrect method.

You Cant optimize 1 ujount angle. They Work in sink with one another.

Sure you have one Less angle, But thats a Bad thing. Yes it will work. But its working in a bind eating HP.

The Type of Vids I referred to earlier can and will Clearly show this. Wish I could Link them.

#1 The Best Angle is No angle. #1

#2 Next would be Parallel angles on seperate planes #2 "80% of us'

"3 There isnt a #3 IMO But if there must be, Measure off the shaft, its workable, but a guess.

No flared temper here either

Just the Tech Facts.

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Assuming we don't have the option to change crossmembers, ride heights, or anything else...

So if you have a trans that has 2 degree's to the driveshaft.

Options/opinions are:

1) Give the pinion 2 degree's (under load) to be equal and opposite of the trans.

or

2) Give the pinion 0 degree's under load "to the driveshaft so at least 1 of the joints is optimized.


That's basically the two opinions we're talking about here right?

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Number 1 is the correct method. Number 2 is the Incorrect method.

You Cant optimize 1 ujount angle. They Work in sink with one another.

Sure you have one Less angle, But thats a Bad thing. Yes it will work. But its working in a bind eating HP.

The Type of Vids I referred to earlier can and will Clearly show this. Wish I could Link them.

#1 The Best Angle is No angle. #1

#2 Next would be Parallel angles on seperate planes #2 "80% of us'

"3 There isnt a #3 IMO But if there must be, Measure off the shaft, its workable, but a guess.

No flared temper here either

Just the Tech Facts.

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I'll stick with the way I do it... thats the best
way... so everything is in line and zero hp taken..
so this is the last post for me on this crap

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I'll stick with the way I do it... thats the best
way... so everything is in line and zero hp taken..
so this is the last post for me on this crap

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Mike, Yep that is the Best way as per my post #1

Also, I think you interpreted that circle track dyno test wrong.

When they used 0 degrees pinion that was with the shaft.

Not the tranny/shaft/pinion like you thought, That would be best.

Its when they "added angle" to make the joints more parallel to the two seperate planes that they got more HP. Understandable IMO.

That was my interpretation.

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Yep......I am out as well. This has wasted enough of my time. I know what works for me and I will continue to do so.

As far as the statement above about the trans being 2* down, meaning the rear would have to be 2* up and somebody thinking that was CORRECT just because angles were equal on both ends. Try that in a high HP hard leaving car and let me know how it goes. Just make sure you have good loops and some extra parts.......LOL!!!

Monte

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The Term used was "Under load", so your numbers would be correct Plus "Equal and Opposite" angles. Witch would make them Ideal and parallel under load.

It was just a example of a perfect scenario of two different planes of the two centerlines that we stock bodied cars see.

A perfect scenario of a Wrong example was #2 where the angle of the pinion was 0 with the shaft, but not with the tranny.

U joints dont work that way, they will be in a bind and eat HP.

Those are the Facts Mam

or maybe just my opinion of the facts.

Everthing is fine though 10 years + going on, the two pinion angle camps have never seen eye to eye. But we still get along.

In reality, our street/race car pinion angles will be so dynamic in pinion movement, that your two methods of choice wont make a whole lot of difference.

But technically/factually U joints work together and they want to be in sync., working in Parallel angles. Whether it be straight or on different planes. If there not, they are binding. We set Pinion angle to Best get them there under load.

This is a Fact, not a Opinion.

IMO, This part of it, should never ever be the Debate part of it.

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Nope........if it was FACT as you say, there would not be two obviously opposing sides. As with most everything, it is strictly opinion as to what guys thinks works the best.

You can show me all the charts, graphs, diagrams and anything else you want, but that doesn't make it fact. It makes it the opinion of the guy that drew them.

And facts or not, try the trans down, pinion up scenario that was mentioned above with any significant offset and a high hp car will spit out driveline parts faster than you can fix them. And while this result may not be a fact, it is something I KNOW will happen.

Monte

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Yep......I am out as well. This has wasted enough of my time. I know what works for me and I will continue to do so.

As far as the statement above about the trans being 2* down, meaning the rear would have to be 2* up and somebody thinking that was CORRECT just because angles were equal on both ends. Try that in a high HP hard leaving car and let me know how it goes. Just make sure you have good loops and some extra parts.......LOL!!!

Monte

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The Term used was "Under load", so your numbers would be correct Plus "Equal and Opposite" angles. Witch would make them Ideal and parallel under load.

It was just a example of a perfect scenario of two different planes of the two centerlines that we stock bodied cars see.

A perfect scenario of a Wrong example was #2 where the angle of the pinion was 0 with the shaft, but not with the tranny.

U joints dont work that way, they will be in a bind and eat HP.

Those are the Facts Mam

or maybe just my opinion of the facts.

Everthing is fine though 10 years + going on, the two pinion angle camps have never seen eye to eye. But we still get along.

In reality, our street/race car pinion angles will be so dynamic in pinion movement, that your two methods of choice wont make a whole lot of difference.

But technically/factually U joints work together and they want to be in sync., working in Parallel angles. Whether it be straight or on different planes. If there not, they are binding. We set Pinion angle to Best get them there under load.

This is a Fact, not a Opinion.

IMO, This part of it, should never ever be the Debate part of it.

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2° trans down and 2° pinion up is parallel and the relative pinion angle would be 0° under load...Not 2° nose up which is what I think some of these guys are interpreting it as...drive shaft angle is irrelevant as u-joint angle will be equal and opposite at both joints.

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They need to come towards each other not go away..........

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The pinion U joint should raise up under acceleration towards the tranny yoke angle to reduce the pinion angle, not be aligned standing still and move up past straight alignment and push away from the tranny yoke angle forming a upside down V at max pinion shaft travel All U joints need to have a difference in angles to the shafts driving them to work and make the inside needle bearings rotate, if they don't rotate they will wear(bernell) into the pinion shafts and distentrigrate from lack of lubrication

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2° trans down and 2° pinion up is parallel and the relative pinion angle would be 0° under load...Not 2° nose up which is what I think some of these guys are interpreting it as...drive shaft angle is irrelevant as u-joint angle will be equal and opposite at both joints.

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There are two sides and this will never change and it seems pretty damn obvious that both work.........which means........in the REAL world, it doesn't really make much of a difference.



Monte

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you finally figured it out

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There are two sides and this will never change and it seems pretty damn obvious that both work.........which means........in the REAL world, it doesn't really make much of a difference.



Monte

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you finally figured it out

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Oh, it will change alright.

Dont like to say never. Its a 20 year side project of mine to get it to change. Only 10 years into it though.