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4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. #1603773 04/06/14 01:27 AM 04/06/14 01:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA. Quicksilver440 OP I Live Here
Quicksilver440 OP I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA.	I have a BB small retainer bell that needs to be opened up to accept the med size (4.8 exactly?) OD retainer that I'm going to turn down to fit. What should the clearance between them be? Zero? Or?

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: Quicksilver440] #1603774 04/06/14 12:29 PM 04/06/14 12:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,947 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,947 U.S.S.A.	You want it to go in without resistance , .0005 under should do it .

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: JohnRR] #1603775 04/06/14 01:17 PM 04/06/14 01:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA. Quicksilver440 OP I Live Here
Quicksilver440 OP I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA.	Thanks John....

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: JohnRR] #1603776 04/06/14 01:23 PM 04/06/14 01:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA B G Racing master
B G Racing master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA	Machine for relaxed fit(snug).It is more important that the bell is true to the crank centerline.With the bell attached to the engine set a dialindicator on the crank,zero it to the bell trans hole and rotate the crank,you should see no more than .008 runout.If there is more get a set of offset dowels and correct it. [IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/ajcasini/max_zpsdppwd9km.jpg[/IMG]

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: B G Racing] #1603777 04/07/14 03:19 PM 04/07/14 03:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA. Quicksilver440 OP I Live Here
Quicksilver440 OP I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA.	Thanks Bob.....

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: Quicksilver440] #1603778 04/07/14 04:20 PM 04/07/14 04:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,728 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,728 Rio Linda, CA	If you're gonna bore the BH it would be wise to check the runout as Bob suggested and factor that into the boring job. IOW, bore off-center the amount of any excessive runout. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: John_Kunkel] #1603779 04/07/14 08:19 PM 04/07/14 08:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,853 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,853 Ontario, Canada	Personally I'd rather use offset dowels than have a shop try to machine it offset. If they try to machine it offset then that means you need to have that amount of play in the trans bolt holes. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't ! Just have them bore it on center then correct the runout with the dowels.

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: Stanton] #1603780 04/08/14 12:02 AM 04/08/14 12:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA. Quicksilver440 OP I Live Here
Quicksilver440 OP I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA.	That was my other debate... to bore it to correct or not. I can see benefits of both ways... Last edited by Quicksilver440; 04/08/14 12:05 AM.

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: Quicksilver440] #1603781 04/08/14 07:50 AM 04/08/14 07:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA B G Racing master
B G Racing master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA	John's method is a correct way of doing it if your opening up a small diameter bell for the larger retainer.The retainer will indicate the trans to crank centerline.Usually the when correcting the excessive run out you will find the 4 trans attaching bolts already have enough slop to allow the trans retainer to conform to the bell bore.It your using the correct bell/retainer then you need to adjust with offset dowels.The bolts don't indicate(align) the trans,the center bore does. [IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/ajcasini/max_zpsdppwd9km.jpg[/IMG]

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: Stanton] #1603782 04/08/14 03:17 PM 04/08/14 03:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,728 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,728 Rio Linda, CA	Quote: Personally I'd rather use offset dowels than have a shop try to machine it offset. If they try to machine it offset then that means you need to have that amount of play in the trans bolt holes. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't ! Just have them bore it on center then correct the runout with the dowels. IMO the offset dowels are a PITA, I have limited machining skills but I've offset bored several BH's so that they dial in dead zero. The 833 bolt holes are about .050" oversized so that's no problem. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: John_Kunkel] #1603783 04/08/14 05:45 PM 04/08/14 05:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA. Quicksilver440 OP I Live Here
Quicksilver440 OP I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,766 Central Valley, CA.	Thanks for all the input...I will bore the BH to correct runout then. This is my first 4 SPD...so its all new to me.

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: John_Kunkel] #1603784 04/09/14 11:20 AM 04/09/14 11:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,947 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,947 U.S.S.A.	Quote: If you're gonna bore the BH it would be wise to check the runout as Bob suggested and factor that into the boring job. IOW, bore off-center the amount of any excessive runout. Looking at this the original question is very confusing , is he going o turn down a retainer , which I ASSuMEd , or he is boring the bell ... or BOTH ???

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: JohnRR] #1603785 04/09/14 11:24 AM 04/09/14 11:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Quote: If you're gonna bore the BH it would be wise to check the runout as Bob suggested and factor that into the boring job. IOW, bore off-center the amount of any excessive runout. Looking at this the original question is very confusing , is he going o turn down a retainer , which I ASSuMEd , or he is boring the bell ... or BOTH ??? My opinion is that he planned on turning down the retainer

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1603786 04/09/14 12:35 PM 04/09/14 12:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,853 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,853 Ontario, Canada	Quote: I have a BB small retainer bell that needs to be opened up to accept the med size (4.8 exactly?) OD retainer Quote: ... retainer that I'm going to turn down to fit. Confusing but most of us focused on boring the bell.

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: Stanton] #1603787 04/09/14 12:45 PM 04/09/14 12:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Quote: I have a BB small retainer bell that needs to be opened up to accept the med size (4.8 exactly?) OD retainer Quote: ... retainer that I'm going to turn down to fit. Confusing but most of us focused on boring the bell. Myself I would most likely turn down the retainer if it doesnt run into anything.. only because its easier to throw in the lathe than centering the bell on the mill... I do have 2 auto boring heads that would do it but you still need to center the bell

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: Stanton] #1603788 04/09/14 12:51 PM 04/09/14 12:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA B G Racing master
B G Racing master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA	I would suggest not turning down the retainer.The difference in retainers from 4.35 ID to 4.80 ID with the bolt centers at 3.70 and 4.16 respectively, turning it down can create a weak(thin) area at the bolt centers and the drain back notch.If this retainer fails at the trans case the bearing can walk forward causing major trans gear damage.Bore the bell housing or get the correct bell. Last edited by B G Racing; 04/09/14 12:55 PM. [IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/ajcasini/max_zpsdppwd9km.jpg[/IMG]

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: B G Racing] #1603789 04/09/14 02:35 PM 04/09/14 02:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,853 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,853 Ontario, Canada	Centering the bell in the mill would be a piece of cake with a digital readout and offsetting it would likewise be simple.

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: Stanton] #1603790 04/09/14 02:48 PM 04/09/14 02:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Centering the bell in the mill would be a piece of cake with a digital readout and offsetting it would likewise be simple. I do have the digital read out

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: JohnRR] #1603791 04/09/14 04:01 PM 04/09/14 04:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,728 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,728 Rio Linda, CA	Quote: Looking at this the original question is very confusing , is he going o turn down a retainer , which I ASSuMEd , or he is boring the bell ... or BOTH ??? From the OP..."I have a BB small retainer bell that needs to be opened up to accept the med size (4.8 exactly?) OD retainer" so I assumed bore and turn. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: 4 SPD bearing retainer to bell clearance. [Re: Quicksilver440] #1603792 04/09/14 04:35 PM 04/09/14 04:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Thanks for all the input...I will bore the BH to correct runout then. This is my first 4 SPD...so its all new to me. This was his last post so I see what he is doing now which is no problem except time.. degree the bell then cut it... but maybe like Bob said the drain and a few minor things might have been a issue if turning the retainer... its only been about 25 years since I even looked at one

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