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Reverse flow coolant, pro/cons? #1598170 03/25/14 07:47 AM 03/25/14 07:47 AM
Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 490 IL E EchoSixMike OP mopar
EchoSixMike OP mopar E Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 490 IL	I'm going to be running a 505" B-1 EFI on E-85 in the near future and will be using a Meziere remote water pump. That makes it easy to go either regular flow or reverse flow, as I understand it, just reverse the lines. Car has plenty of radiator, E-85 runs pretty cool, compression is 13.8:1 As I understand, reverse flow typically allows more timing, which generally results in increased power. So, any other pros and cons? S/F....Ken M

Re: Reverse flow coolant, pro/cons? [Re: EchoSixMike] #1598171 03/25/14 11:29 AM 03/25/14 11:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,999 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw... gregsdart master
gregsdart master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,999 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...	I have run a reverse flow adapter and Chev style electric pump for many years, no problems. I run 440-1 heads, make about 880 hp on Methanol. I don't see any down side at all, just potential power gains (more so on gas?) 8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky

Re: Reverse flow coolant, pro/cons? [Re: EchoSixMike] #1598172 03/25/14 11:42 AM 03/25/14 11:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Being that you will keep the heads cooler you would have less of a chance to detonate.. but with E-85 you reduce that also... so with both of those I would think you can bump up the timing... on my E-85 set up I only increased the timing 1 degree over the gas but I run a standard flow cooling system on my SB

Re: Reverse flow coolant, pro/cons? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1598173 03/25/14 12:14 PM 03/25/14 12:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2014 Posts: 655 Huntsville, AL A Airwoofer mopar
Airwoofer mopar A Joined: Feb 2014 Posts: 655 Huntsville, AL	My B1 PSO heads have water ports midway on the heads that water goes into. It exits at the front of the block. I think... there are a bunch of lines. Seems to work pretty well until I try idling for a while after it gets warmed up. Real small radiator with two braided lines from the block to where the upper hose usually goes.

Re: Reverse flow coolant, pro/cons? [Re: Airwoofer] #1598174 03/25/14 02:38 PM 03/25/14 02:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	Seems to me you are looking at the question sideways. On any chamber there is an optimum spark advance. Going over that number makes less power. So it is wrong to assume that more advance makes more power in all cases. What you want is a combustion chamber that makes maximum power with the least advance. That cuts down on negative work (piston pushing against expanding mixture). If you are able to find the maximum power spark advance on your engine with regular cooling, then by going to reverse cooling you could run more compression. If you were to put the engine on a dyno and keep increasing spark timing until it started detonating, without reaching a maximum point in the curve, then running reverse cooling would allow more advance that would increase power. R.

Re: Reverse flow coolant, pro/cons? [Re: dogdays] #1598175 03/25/14 07:09 PM 03/25/14 07:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 774 Midland,Tx wyldebill super stock
wyldebill super stock Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 774 Midland,Tx	i am planning on doing this on my 512. i was told that i need to install air bleeds in the heads to reduce air pockets or hot spots. anybody know anything abiut that?

Re: Reverse flow coolant, pro/cons? [Re: EchoSixMike] #1598176 03/26/14 12:46 AM 03/26/14 12:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,070 Mo. racerx master
racerx master Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 4,070 Mo.	for this my pump is making some funny noise and i also thought about converting to reverse flow i'm currently on e-85 now.

Re: Reverse flow coolant, pro/cons? [Re: wyldebill] #1598177 03/26/14 02:10 AM 03/26/14 02:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,647 aotearoa rebel master
rebel master Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,647 aotearoa	Quote: i am planning on doing this on my 512. i was told that i need to install air bleeds in the heads to reduce air pockets or hot spots. anybody know anything abiut that? i use the Mezzarie reverse flow pump. when filling with coolant on an empty block it's no problem. the pump moves the air out pretty quick & everything works great. BUT if you drain the block for any reason & refill a partially fill block you get a b@st@rd issue with a big airlock that the pump will not pick up the water. to fix this problem i've found raising the back of the car & then the pump seems to pick up & it's all good again. it's only an issue when the block is still partially full of water & you refill the radiator. once you know how to get over it, life is sweet again & the pump works great.

Re: Reverse flow coolant, pro/cons? [Re: rebel] #1598178 03/26/14 12:28 PM 03/26/14 12:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA Leon441 master
Leon441 master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA	There is a simple fix for this. Run a small line from the top of the pump cavity to a higher spot on the radiator tank. This way the air cavitating in the pump can get out. This can be done for any problem area. Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.

Re: Reverse flow coolant, pro/cons? [Re: Leon441] #1598179 03/31/14 12:57 AM 03/31/14 12:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 774 Midland,Tx wyldebill super stock
wyldebill super stock Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 774 Midland,Tx	pump cavitation isn't what i was warned about. i was told that there would be voids in the heads, creating steam pockets. if there wasnt some sort of air blead, much like LS engines. most all the late model stuff ive looked at has an air blead of some sort.

Re: Reverse flow coolant, pro/cons? [Re: wyldebill] #1598180 04/01/14 12:41 AM 04/01/14 12:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 778 Sherwood park, Alberta. go green super stock
go green super stock Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 778 Sherwood park, Alberta.	There is not one OEM car on the planet that goes backwards in the coolant design . I would think that the $100,000,000,000 auto industry knows what they are doing . Cooling during the run is minimal and the reverse cooling is a monkey see monkey do thing . Do you guys think the law of physics change for Meziere and Indy making air not rise to top of the cooling system ? Its sounds reasonable in short be its just a trick of the week . Its just a waist of time . 6.50 @ 226 MPH 4.25 @ 186 MPH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX86DHGKBo0

Re: Reverse flow coolant, pro/cons? [Re: go green] #1598181 04/01/14 01:20 AM 04/01/14 01:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: There is not one OEM car on the planet that goes backwards in the coolant design . I would think that the $100,000,000,000 auto industry knows what they are doing . Cooling during the run is minimal and the reverse cooling is a monkey see monkey do thing . Do you guys think the law of physics change for Meziere and Indy making air not rise to top of the cooling system ? Its sounds reasonable in short be its just a trick of the week . Its just a waist of time . Thats always been my thought... the auto companies spend 100s of thousands on testing... I never changed over because I think they got it right in the testing and like you said... this is ONLY a 1/4 mile... I dont know what the pro stocks use but they are the badest out there for a N/A engine

Re: Reverse flow coolant, pro/cons? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1598182 04/01/14 12:39 PM 04/01/14 12:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 866 Winnipeg ,Mb. CA. chryco super stock
chryco super stock Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 866 Winnipeg ,Mb. CA.	I`ve ran this Indy/Meziere system in high heat / humidity conditions and have had ZERO problems . Chryco Gas is fer washin' parts ....Alky`s fer drinkin' ...Nitro`s fer Racin'!

Re: Reverse flow coolant, pro/cons? [Re: go green] #1598183 04/01/14 01:47 PM 04/01/14 01:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,035 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,035 Oregon	I think the problem is that unless the cylinders heads are designed for reverse cooling, the water pump just doesn't have enough pressure or flow to push air bubbles down thru the block. So over time the air bubbles will build up in the heads and cause problems. I ran reverse cooling on my 514 dyno motor for awhile but didn't see any power differerence so I switched back over to a conventional system. For a drag car I'd use a remote water pump. With a remote pump you can hook up the lines either conventional or reverse if you want to try it out. Getting the pump off of the engine will increase the life of the pump and it will clean up the front of the engine.

Re: Reverse flow coolant, pro/cons? [Re: AndyF] #1598184 04/01/14 02:28 PM 04/01/14 02:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,490 Minnesota Hemi_Joel master
Hemi_Joel master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,490 Minnesota	I talked to an engine builder who was able to run pump gas in a 13:1 compression sbc by reverse cooling and pumping water into 5 locations on each head to eliminate any hot spots or steam pockets. I found it very interesting... [img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img] 31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"

Re: Reverse flow coolant, pro/cons? [Re: go green] #1598185 04/01/14 03:21 PM 04/01/14 03:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,009 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,009 U.S.S.A.	Quote: There is not one OEM car on the planet that goes backwards in the coolant design . I would think that the $100,000,000,000 auto industry knows what they are doing . Cooling during the run is minimal and the reverse cooling is a monkey see monkey do thing . Do you guys think the law of physics change for Meziere and Indy making air not rise to top of the cooling system ? Its sounds reasonable in short be its just a trick of the week . Its just a waist of time . Isn't the LS chevy motor reverse flow ??? We ran the enginemaster engine reverse flow , 12.2 compression with alum heads on 91 octane , made over 700HP on Pierce's dyno in Lansing the day before the competition???? As stated getting the air out of the heads without bleeds is a beotch and can lead to overheating the top end because of air pockets ... been there, had a $10k paperweight to show for it ...

Re: Reverse flow coolant, pro/cons? [Re: JohnRR] #1598186 04/01/14 05:24 PM 04/01/14 05:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	The LS motor and the LT1 before it were both reverse flow, so there are more than a million cars on the planet with reverse cooling and the automakers wouldn't have spent the millions if it didn't have benefits. R.

Re: Reverse flow coolant, pro/cons? [Re: JohnRR] #1598187 04/01/14 05:30 PM 04/01/14 05:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,035 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,035 Oregon	The LT1 was reverse cooled but then the GM engineers went back to conventional cooling for the LS engines. I don't know why they did that, I've heard it was due to warranty costs and/or a patent dispute with Evans. Not sure what the truth is.

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