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Autocross an E-body on a budget?
#1594368
03/17/14 03:30 PM
03/17/14 03:30 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,134
Las Vegas, NV
Tom_440
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,134
Las Vegas, NV
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I'm thinking the answer is "no" but please correct me if I am wrong. I currently autocross a '95 SN 95 Mustang with Maximum Motorsports coil over conversion, camber caster plates, bilsteins all around and 17" cobra style wheels/new Nitto NT05 tires. I am not competitive but have tons of fun.
My '73 cuda is a 440/4spd with cragers, crappy BFG's. Manual brake conversion. I've replaced some front end parts with moog bits but all stock. Original sway bars, torsion bars, etc. Back still has ancient air shocks that I can't toss because the cragers have the wrong back space and won't fit if I lower the car. I like the look of the Cuda way more than the stang, but it sucks stopping and turning. I figure I could sell the stang for maybe $3500 but would that be enough to get the Cuda even close to the Stang handling? I can't fabricate worth a darn and don't have engineering skills.
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Re: Autocross an E-body on a budget?
[Re: Tom_440]
#1594369
03/17/14 03:33 PM
03/17/14 03:33 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,649
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
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Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,649
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
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no
doesn't a hotchkiss set up cost twice that?
Tom
"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."
-Henry David Thoreau
Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths
author unknown
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Re: Autocross an E-body on a budget?
[Re: amxautox]
#1594370
03/17/14 04:16 PM
03/17/14 04:16 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
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Quote:
no
doesn't a hotchkiss set up cost twice that?
Not really. However, once you do wheels and tires, you'll be getting pretty close. The Challenger would require more than just the TVS kit. Once the kit is done, it is very easy to overdrive the brakes and steering. I'd look into a good set of wheels and tires first, then make sure your steering is in good order. The best part about the TVS is that it can be done incrementally, and the kit costs the same together or parted out. The Challenger and the SN95 are both really fun cars. Why not do the Challenger as funds allow and keep playing with the Mustang to improve your skill sets?
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Re: Autocross an E-body on a budget?
[Re: Tom_440]
#1594373
03/17/14 05:57 PM
03/17/14 05:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,451
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,451
So Cal
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Quote:
I'm thinking the answer is "no" but please correct me if I am wrong. I currently autocross a '95 SN 95 Mustang with Maximum Motorsports coil over conversion, camber caster plates, bilsteins all around and 17" cobra style wheels/new Nitto NT05 tires. I am not competitive but have tons of fun.
My '73 cuda is a 440/4spd with cragers, crappy BFG's. Manual brake conversion. I've replaced some front end parts with moog bits but all stock. Original sway bars, torsion bars, etc. Back still has ancient air shocks that I can't toss because the cragers have the wrong back space and won't fit if I lower the car. I like the look of the Cuda way more than the stang, but it sucks stopping and turning. I figure I could sell the stang for maybe $3500 but would that be enough to get the Cuda even close to the Stang handling? I can't fabricate worth a darn and don't have engineering skills.
Copy what Mopar Mitch did to his 70 Challenger T/A that is E-Street Prepared legal. You could skip the expensive figerglass leaf springs and do that later for that little bit extra.
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Re: Autocross an E-body on a budget?
[Re: Uhcoog1]
#1594374
03/17/14 10:12 PM
03/17/14 10:12 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
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Shocks $400
Torsion Bars $400
Offset UCA bushings $60
Hellwig front and rear sway bars $350
factory leaf springs
Factory Strut rods- new bushings - $40 (or RMS for $199 if you need them)
new LCA bushing, new ball joints, new pitman and idler, new tie rod ends ($250-$300? rock auto)
upgraded brake pads for stock calipers (~$100?)
That's about $1600. Leaves you ~$1900 for wheels and tires.
The key with the DIY approach as outlined above is you need to match components. If you don't want to do the math and don't want to change parts to find the balance, then go TVS.
-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
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Re: Autocross an E-body on a budget?
[Re: Uhcoog1]
#1594375
03/17/14 11:06 PM
03/17/14 11:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
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$3500 would be a great start I'd say. (Not including rims and tires)
Last edited by brads70; 03/17/14 11:09 PM.
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Re: Autocross an E-body on a budget?
[Re: brads70]
#1594376
03/18/14 01:41 AM
03/18/14 01:41 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 898
Georgia
72440CUDA
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 898
Georgia
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Or, jack up the Mustang and "borrow" the wheels and tires off of it and try to make them work for the time being. 1" bolt on spacer and a little lathe work on the hubs up front. Longer wheel studs and spacer in the back. I bought a cheap set of 18" knock off Mustang wheels and Nitto NT-05's for around $1500.
I think wheels and tires would be the biggest bang for the buck improvement. I autocrossed my car with 15" Weld draglites and BFG radial TA's. It was the biggest limiting factor with stock suspension and brakes. I also was a little low on tire pressure and rolled it onto the sidewall.
edit: I hate autocorrect
Last edited by 72440CUDA; 03/18/14 01:50 AM.
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Re: Autocross an E-body on a budget?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1594378
03/18/14 03:19 AM
03/18/14 03:19 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,134
Las Vegas, NV
Tom_440
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,134
Las Vegas, NV
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Thank-you guys for the detailed advice  I'm liking the mustang wheel idea for starters... Dan, its your fault I'm even considering this. Was that ride with Mary Pozzi in your Challenger at MATS that sparked the idea...
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Re: Autocross an E-body on a budget?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1594379
03/18/14 03:19 AM
03/18/14 03:19 AM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
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Quote:
If you want to get autocross competitive, you need near the 1.24" T-bars that Mitch uses. Front tire width will need to be at least 275 street sized.
I'm going to say no and no.
I dominated my local SCCA class last year on a 215 front tire and a rear 235 tire and we had much lower front spring rates. I won 5 of the 8 events I entered and was 2nd in 2 more. The one race I finished 4th was on Primewell tigers. Mitch's build while good at the time, is dated and uses "old school" methodology. I don't think it would fare as well against the cars being fielded now.
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Re: Autocross an E-body on a budget?
[Re: Dan@Hotchkis]
#1594380
03/18/14 04:05 AM
03/18/14 04:05 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
If you want to get autocross competitive, you need near the 1.24" T-bars that Mitch uses. Front tire width will need to be at least 275 street sized.
I'm going to say no and no.
I dominated my local SCCA class last year on a 215 front tire and a rear 235 tire and we had much lower front spring rates. I won 5 of the 8 events I entered and was 2nd in 2 more. The one race I finished 4th was on Primewell tigers. Mitch's build while good at the time, is dated and uses "old school" methodology. I don't think it would fare as well against the cars being fielded now.
wait for it... 
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Re: Autocross an E-body on a budget?
[Re: Dan@Hotchkis]
#1594382
03/18/14 10:02 AM
03/18/14 10:02 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
PHJ426
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
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Quote:
Quote:
If you want to get autocross competitive, you need near the 1.24" T-bars that Mitch uses. Front tire width will need to be at least 275 street sized.
I'm going to say no and no.
I dominated my local SCCA class last year on a 215 front tire and a rear 235 tire and we had much lower front spring
rates. I won 5 of the 8 events I entered and was 2nd in 2 more. The one race I finished 4th was on Primewell tigers. Mitch's build while good at the time, is dated and uses "old school" methodology. I don't think it would fare as well
against the cars being fielded now.
Dan this 215/235 tire combo was in an E body or what car?
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Re: Autocross an E-body on a budget?
[Re: PHJ426]
#1594383
03/18/14 11:49 AM
03/18/14 11:49 AM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
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Quote:
wait for it...
LOL
Quote:
Dan, have you tested and dialed in a specific shock (custom?) for your softer spring setup? What size sway bars?
The shocks on our cars are the exact same valving as the ones we sell. You've been on the track with us enough to know how we work. Everything on our cars are off the shelf items unless we are doing R&D.
Quote:
Dan this 215/235 tire combo was in an E body or what car?
I cheated a little, it was with a 3090lbs Mustang. That said, I have a much lighter Mopar project in the works, that will use a small tire as well.
However, my wife's car is a 3250lbs B-Body and with 255 fronts and 275 rears, it is severely over-tired, but it makes it great for her be cause at her skill level and speed, the car just goes. I have to get really stupid with it to get it to come around. If it didn't look so stupid with smaller tires on it, I would run it with a smaller tire.
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Re: Autocross an E-body on a budget?
[Re: Tom_440]
#1594384
03/18/14 02:38 PM
03/18/14 02:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 801
central CT
cudazappa
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 801
central CT
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It's very do-able. I do it as much as I can. http://youtu.be/INY4N0JYqRYmain thing is stuff in the proper wheels/tires. My current wheels ran about $600 for the set (17x9 summit racing wheels, 0 offset) and the tires I got for $700 (275/40 Falken RT615s). From there you can go torsion bars (1" just suspension are under $200/pr IIRC) front sway bar (addco about $150) and then a rear sway bar (I have a hotchkis unit I paid $300 from someone who decided not to use it). Add some subframe connectors and you have a great starter setup. Next is shocks, at a minimum go with the bilsteins ($300/set at hotchkis ebay store on clearance), they are actually pretty decent with this setup. From there you can go steering boxes, upper control arms and more. Oh yeah, and seats. Get good bolstered seats (summits are $180/ea). My car has rust and dents but its crazy how much it grips now, and I'm always squirreling away more money for future upgrades, and looking for screaming parts deals. Supposed to warm up this weekend so I can open up the garage door and do my rear spring swap.
1971 Challenger
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Re: Autocross an E-body on a budget?
[Re: Dan@Hotchkis]
#1594387
03/19/14 10:19 PM
03/19/14 10:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
PHJ426
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
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Quote:
Quote:
wait for it...
LOL
Quote:
Dan, have you tested and dialed in a specific shock (custom?) for your softer spring setup? What size sway bars?
The shocks on our cars are the exact same valving as the ones we sell. You've been on the track with us enough to know how we work. Everything on our cars are off the shelf items unless we are doing R&D.
Quote:
Dan this 215/235 tire combo was in an E body or what car?
I cheated a little, it was with a 3090lbs Mustang. That said, I have a much lighter Mopar project in the works, that will use a small tire as well.
However, my wife's car is a 3250lbs B-Body and with 255 fronts and 275 rears, it is severely over-tired, but it makes it great for her be cause at her skill level and speed, the car just goes. I have to get really stupid with it to get it to come around. If it didn't look so stupid with smaller tires on it, I would run it with a smaller tire.
What year Mustang was that in?
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