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Re: Does anyone make a composite intermidiate gear? [Re: Jeremiah] #1581825
02/28/14 08:15 PM
02/28/14 08:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,091
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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Jeremiah  Offline OP
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Rogue River, OR
Yo,

I finally had time to call around today and have yet to talk to any shop that has heard of or experienced problems with the coated gear. It seems that as long as the 10lb / 1000 RPM rule is followed, oil gets warmed up prior to abuse, and a reasonable viscosity is used no problems would be expected. If you have 100 psi cold at 100 rpm with 20w50 and hammer it out of the shop two minutes after start up this gear is not for you. Hope this helps out.

Re: Does anyone make a composite intermidiate gear? [Re: Jeremiah] #1581826
02/28/14 10:26 PM
02/28/14 10:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,412
Toronto
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mshred Offline
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Toronto
Quote:

Yo,

I finally had time to call around today and have yet to talk to any shop that has heard of or experienced problems with the coated gear. It seems that as long as the 10lb / 1000 RPM rule is followed, oil gets warmed up prior to abuse, and a reasonable viscosity is used no problems would be expected. If you have 100 psi cold at 100 rpm with 20w50 and hammer it out of the shop two minutes after start up this gear is not for you. Hope this helps out.




Did you speak with Crane at all? None of them cautioned against using them with HV pumps? If that is the case, I am going to cancel the order on my milodon gear tomorrow, as it hasn't even shipped yet (out of stock).

Thanks for the info!

Re: Does anyone make a composite intermidiate gear? [Re: mshred] #1581827
03/01/14 05:14 AM
03/01/14 05:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,091
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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Jeremiah  Offline OP
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Rogue River, OR
I have not had much success asking anything of Crane in the past so I tried to talk to people that were using and supporting the product.

It's your turn to call somebody.

Tim at Hughes told me they don't even sell 20w50 racing oil these days because the thinner stuff works fine. He also advised me to run synthetic unless my application diluted the oil (aka alcohol) and in that case run mineral based on cost, etc.

I'll be interested to see how it all works.

Re: Does anyone make a composite intermidiate gear? [Re: mshred] #1581828
03/02/14 01:32 AM
03/02/14 01:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,904
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Hughes sells the coated gear.




I will have to see if it is compatible with an HV pump..they don't warn against it, so maybe it is?




I looked at the link , it doesn't say anything about oil pumps but if you look at the coated gear and shaft assemblies for Big blocks it says this ...

Quote:

High volume, or high pressure oil pumps are not recommended as they accelerate wear on the cam gear and oil pump drive gear.






Re: Does anyone make a composite intermidiate gear? [Re: JohnRR] #1581829
03/02/14 01:50 AM
03/02/14 01:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,394
The Pale Blue Dot
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That is a dangerous oversight on the website that could lead to an expensive problem for the unwary. I did send them an e-mail about this.

Last edited by Skeptic; 03/02/14 01:52 AM.
Re: Does anyone make a composite intermidiate gear? [Re: mshred] #1581830
03/02/14 12:47 PM
03/02/14 12:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines Offline
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Syracuse,NY
Quote:

Quote:

Yo,

I finally had time to call around today and have yet to talk to any shop that has heard of or experienced problems with the coated gear. It seems that as long as the 10lb / 1000 RPM rule is followed, oil gets warmed up prior to abuse, and a reasonable viscosity is used no problems would be expected. If you have 100 psi cold at 100 rpm with 20w50 and hammer it out of the shop two minutes after start up this gear is not for you. Hope this helps out.




Did you speak with Crane at all? None of them cautioned against using them with HV pumps? If that is the case, I am going to cancel the order on my milodon gear tomorrow, as it hasn't even shipped yet (out of stock).

Thanks for the info!





Chase and I were " chewing the fat" recently on this topic, and here are some notes:


First, if it’s a new steel roller camshaft, prior to installation, put the wire wheel on the bench grinder, and THOROUGHLY burnish the gear surfaces. This will really help distributor gear life.

If the new roller cam is already in the engine, the coated steel gear should be good to use with any material camshaft, when using a sane oil pump. If you have a reasonable performance pump (plus 10-20 pounds), the coated gear should still be acceptable. If you have a HVHP oil pump (40-60# at idle, 100+# at 5000) with stock/near-stock bearing clearances, you’re going to need a bronze gear, and check it frequently to gauge the wear rate. Way too much load for reasonable longevity. The bottom line is, too many people really run TOO much oil pressure, and its a feel good maneuver many times more than anything. With the quality of todays oils, I dont think its half as much as important as people think.

If it’s a used roller cam, the bronze gear is necessary so it can mate to the existing worn cam gear surfaces.

Not all “bronze” gears are the same. Crane’s gears are a high grade of silicon bronze, that are a bit tougher than some of the softer items out there.I have seen some of the " bargain" bronze gears, and I wouldnt put them on a Fisher Price built car.Junk.I would have to confirm this to be 100% accurate, but my own research tells me there are only a few companies actually making the GOOD bronze gears for everyone. The Crane has always been my favorite, but cant say I have had problems ever with Milodon and MP as well. Setting up thrust and having a tight bushing helps.


Crane does offer small block MOPAR roller camshafts with pressed-on iron distributor drive gears, so a standard distributor gear can be used. I think some others do as well.

In a street driven application, a bronze gear may just simply be considered a consumable item over time. They can last from 10,000 to 40,000 miles, and perform perfectly fine in that period. Hell, if you changed it our every three years, big deal.

The influx of new camshafts, cores, hydraulic roller popularity as well as other industry changes, simply has made the need for a more universal gear show up. ( my opinion). That being said, the manufacters tried to develop a more, one size fits all cam gear. That and the fact people thought bronze gears were only for race cars, and, expensive, certainly came into play.


RIP Monte Smith

Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.

WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: Does anyone make a composite intermidiate gear? [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #1581831
03/02/14 03:51 PM
03/02/14 03:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,091
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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Jeremiah  Offline OP
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Posts: 9,091
Rogue River, OR
Thank you for the info. I am running a high volume pump and will make sure the engine has 30 or so at idle and no more than 75 at 7500 RPM. I'll also go .003 on the mains. If that doesn't work at least someone will have tried and failed instead of talked about it.

Re: Does anyone make a composite intermidiate gear? [Re: Jeremiah] #1581832
10/12/14 04:43 PM
10/12/14 04:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 164
Savannah, GA
mopar400 Offline
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Anyone have first hand experience to report on the coated Crane gear yet?


1965 Fury II 1970 Challenger 440, 509 cam, 11:1 w/ 452 iron heads, 6.99 1/8, 11.29@ 120mph 1/4 (1999 Magnolia Drag strip track champion) 1992 Jeep XJ Crawler
Re: Does anyone make a composite intermidiate gear? [Re: mopar400] #1581833
10/12/14 07:10 PM
10/12/14 07:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,091
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline OP
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Jeremiah  Offline OP
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Rogue River, OR
If you can find me a machine shop within 4 hours (with a dyno) that turns around work in less than three months I'll be right on it!


Re: Does anyone make a composite intermidiate gear? [Re: Jeremiah] #1581834
10/14/14 12:20 AM
10/14/14 12:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 164
Savannah, GA
mopar400 Offline
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Posts: 164
Savannah, GA
Quote:

If you can find me a machine shop within 4 hours (with a dyno) that turns around work in less than three months I'll be right on it!






I'm interested in your results or anyone else. I think I may just skip the composite this time around since there is little feedback on them. I'm worried about the Crane gear possibly causing wear to the cam gear. Money is too tight right now to risk it.


1965 Fury II 1970 Challenger 440, 509 cam, 11:1 w/ 452 iron heads, 6.99 1/8, 11.29@ 120mph 1/4 (1999 Magnolia Drag strip track champion) 1992 Jeep XJ Crawler
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