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Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: 68roadrunner] #1574677
03/29/14 12:17 PM
03/29/14 12:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,144
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pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
"Little"John

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PA.
I know I had to get my Wisco pistons that were made for 440-1 heads re-cut for my B1 heads. Different valve angles. It cost me just under 100 dollars but that was years ago.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: 68roadrunner] #1574678
03/29/14 12:20 PM
03/29/14 12:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 456
corpus christi tex
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Cheatham Offline
mopar
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corpus christi tex
on my 572 in beginning i was planning to start off with a indy ez-1 head but knew i may end up with a b1 so the pistons were notched for b1s which i was told would work with indys

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: Cheatham] #1574679
03/29/14 12:35 PM
03/29/14 12:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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Master

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Romeo MI
Quote:

on my 572 in beginning i was planning to start off with a indy ez-1 head but knew i may end up with a b1 so the pistons were notched for b1s which i was told would work with indys




Based on what has been shown here and if he isnt
running a max lift the B-1 pistons should work..
mine were made to the B1M/C head so the intake valve
is moved but even then it looks like the smaller valve
would clear.. and if it isnt a max lift even the angle
change wouldnt matter.. but it would have wasted space

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1574680
03/29/14 12:43 PM
03/29/14 12:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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Master

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Romeo MI
Wade here is a pic of the pistons

8093069-DSC00152.JPG (228 downloads)
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1574681
03/29/14 12:48 PM
03/29/14 12:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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Master

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Romeo MI
Here is the specs on them... see if they would work
for you... I'll let them go pretty cheap since I sold
off everything else for that engine.... these are CP
pistons with the gas ports

8093075-DSC00154.JPG (211 downloads)
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1574682
03/31/14 04:12 PM
03/31/14 04:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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WadeMetzinger  Offline OP
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Tulsa, Ok
The Autopsy report is in from the “humbled/embarrassed” engine builder (myself)…

All the clearances were fine, it was totally my fault. I put the passenger side bank of pistons in wrong…. Instead of Exhaust, Intake, Intake, Exhaust, Exhaust, Intake, Intake, Exhaust…. I did the complete opposite…

So every intake valve was hitting the piston and probably bent everyone on the initial startup. I made the first pass and it went 7,500 and they all stayed connected but on the 2nd pass, 6.15 at 113mph, and about 800 foot the #8 intake valve head broke off and bounced all around and ended up in #1 intake port. The #8 valve guide ended up holding #6 intake open and the #8 valve seat ended up in #2 intake port so there was a lot of action going on inside the Intake port after the valve head broke a the #8 piston and then traveled back up into the heads. (it went a 9.66 on the first pass with every intake valve on the passenger side bent and not seating, so I bet it would have ran that 9.30 something I was hoping for…)

We heard a noise on startup but thought it was the rocker because we has some push rod clearance issues that I worked on after initial startup and it got much quieter, sort of sounded like the rockers were tapping the valve covers slightly but no, it was the valves hitting the pistons… Basically the noise had almost gone completely away because it was making its own clearance… I attributed that to the work I did to make clearance for the push rods…

From the picture below you can see that #8 head chamber is pretty badly damaged, but repairable. Every piston has shrapnel damage, every head chamber has shrapnel damage, every intake is bent on the passenger side head and I’m not sure if the valves are ok on the driver side yet but with the valve head lodged into #1, I’m guessing I may have bent a few valves on that head as well. Both heads will need some repair work done.

#8 piston has a hole in it and it’s split down the side (at first glance I thought it was the cylinder that was split) but I think the Block, Crank and Rods survived. I’ll need to check and possibly replace #8 rod since it was abused, I’ll check the cranks just to be sure, the #8 cylinder will need to be either sleeved or I’ll just need to bore all the cylinders to 4.50” bore, which is what I will probably do since I need new pistons and I’d rather not sleeve the block.

There wasn’t any damage to the oil pan or windage tray, there wasn’t any metal on the oil pan magnetic plug (most of the shrapnel was aluminum and stainless steel. There was some aluminum in the oil pump rotor so I’ll probably replace them if I can’t clean them up enough to be sure they are fine.

I was hoping I got lucky like I did when the motor blew up last fall and there wasn’t any damage to the heads except 1 bent valve. All I need to complete the KB short block is a set of rods and the mega block will need to be bored, new pistons and probably a rod. Both of those were option and I thought I might be able to swing so I could get another motor going for this season but with the heads damaged I’m going to need to repair or replace them and that will put me out for this year. (Frankenstein was going to be my back up motor once I got the KB motor done but that plan didn’t work out did it…lol

I am fortunate to have my wife ’68 Barracuda that runs 10 and is a blast to drive. So as long as I keep on her good side she will let me double up with her and still get to race some this year.

Moral of the story and what I learned from this experience….

I’ve probably built close 30 race motors and never had a failure, so I was over confident with the basic stuff like getting the pistons in the hole correctly and was more focused on the more technical/advanced items. So my over confidence and rushing to make the 1st points race of the year allowed me to learn a lesson the hard way. Yes the machinist was late getting the machine work done and getting the heads to me but that is no excuse for me rushing to build the motor and getting it into the car in 1 weekend.

I should have taken my time and made sure I did everything correctly, even the stuff I’ve done many of times and shouldn’t have to think twice about, it never pays to rush when you’re building a motor.

8095779-photo1.JPG (265 downloads)
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574683
03/31/14 04:12 PM
03/31/14 04:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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head picture

8095780-photo2.JPG (352 downloads)
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574684
03/31/14 04:13 PM
03/31/14 04:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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#8 intake port

8095782-photo4.JPG (314 downloads)
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574685
03/31/14 04:14 PM
03/31/14 04:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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#1 intake port with the #8 valve head lodged...

8095784-photo3.JPG (280 downloads)
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574686
03/31/14 04:29 PM
03/31/14 04:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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MAJOR BUMMER.... sorry about that... I'm surprised
that it even turned over... I guess the valves cleared

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1574687
03/31/14 04:47 PM
03/31/14 04:47 PM
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Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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It turned over by hand with no problems... I wished it hadn't..lol

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574688
03/31/14 04:57 PM
03/31/14 04:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
Master
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Quote:

It turned over by hand with no problems... I wished it hadn't..lol




I guess you didnt clay the pistons to check the P to V
clearance.... we all learn... but that one COST

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1574689
03/31/14 06:19 PM
03/31/14 06:19 PM
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Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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I did on the Driver side #1, didn't check P to V on Passenger but head builder was installing new valves and made sure that the valves were at the same position or higher in the heads so we shouldn't need to check other P to V. We knew where the pistons were for both sides (.010 in the hole) (of course that is only true if I has put the pistons in correctly...lol)

We didn't clay it, we used a light checking valve spring so we could check clearance at several places so I would know if i had room to advance or retard the cam with the external timing belt system later.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574690
03/31/14 06:42 PM
03/31/14 06:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,124
A Red State
SNK-EYZ Offline
I Live Here
SNK-EYZ  Offline
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A Red State
That sucks.


Kayse can't keep up at all now. lol
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: SNK-EYZ] #1574691
03/31/14 07:11 PM
03/31/14 07:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,397
Carson City, Nevada
Biginchmopar Offline
pro stock
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Carson City, Nevada
Expensive leason but you will never do that again.

Those heads are going to cost a bit to repair. (OUCH)


Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574692
04/01/14 12:50 PM
04/01/14 12:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
cudadon Offline
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Wade I am sorry to hear of this.

Years ago I was in a hurry to put the engine in the car. Everything was checked.
I put the flexplate on the crank & torqued it.
Put engine in car, did testing. It kept slowing, then it died on the turn off. It wouldn't crank with starter.
Got towed back to pits. Looked things over, then it started. So after it cooled it would crank.

Long story short the ARP flexplate to crank bolts were TOO LONG! The bolts jacked all the end play clearance out of the crank.
You would think you would hear or feel the bolts rubbing on the block.
ARP said oops I guess chevy bolts won't work for that engine.
The 1 thing I didn't look at caused that engine to be rebuilt.

It wasn't the engine builders fault it was the intaller's (me)
ARP made the correct bolts after that.
Don

8097003-493ondyno.JPG (247 downloads)
Last edited by cudadon; 04/01/14 12:55 PM.
Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574693
05/05/14 01:57 PM
05/05/14 01:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Would anyone happen to have 1 Indy 440-1 head they'd like to sell?

I'm starting to look at getting this one repaired but if I could find someone that had just one head that may be a better route, let me know if you do please.

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574694
05/05/14 02:46 PM
05/05/14 02:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,144
PA.
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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"Little"John

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Posts: 20,144
PA.
Quote:

Would anyone happen to have 1 Indy 440-1 head they'd like to sell?

I'm starting to look at getting this one repaired but if I could find someone that had just one head that may be a better route, let me know if you do please.





Wade put a FREE wanted ad on Racingjunk. I'm sure someone has one laying around.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574695
05/07/14 12:33 PM
05/07/14 12:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
cudadon Offline
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Wade how's the KB block going? Did you get it?
Good luck with your builds.
Don

Re: “Frankenstein” is almost alive! [Re: cudadon] #1574696
05/07/14 02:29 PM
05/07/14 02:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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camastomcat Offline
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Salt Lake City
I'm curious about the block deal too Wade. Also, 19 years ago, I did the same thing. Ruined a couple of pistons but had 10, fixed the head and was back after it. It happened in the waterbox though so not as bad. Like others said, racingjunk, you will find a head if you can't fix that one.

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