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“Frankenstein” is DEAD! ** The Autopsy report is in ** #1574597
02/05/14 08:03 PM
02/05/14 08:03 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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You may have read in one of my previous post I broke a rod going through the traps at our final bracket race (I got the win light but I’d trade it for 8 more passes to finish the year as I had planned on replacing the rods this winter). It knocked the side out of the Mega block, messed up several cylinders, broke the cam and of course destroyed the other rod on that journal and put shrapnel on all the other pistons.

I assumed the Mega block was gone but we were able to repair it since the damage was non-structural, just pain rail and side, so as long as it welded up well enough to hold in oil and the pan, we were good. Since I was only at 4.380 on the bore, we were able to go to 4.440 on the bore and that cleaned up the cylinders. (we also pressure checked the block and it held pressure, even though there was some pretty major damage to the bottom of the cylinders)

We turned/off-set ground the K1 crank from 4.15 stroke with Mopar rod journals to 4.25 and Chevy 2.2 rod journals. I pick up a set of used Eagle rods from a friend (only had 69 passes on them). Bought new set of Diamond Pistons. I also picked up a damaged roller cam and had it re-ground.

So I’m wondering how much it will pick up, I’m thinking .15 or .2 with the extra 26 cubic inches, longer stroke (4.25 from 4.15 with 7.100 rods) and roller cam and wanted to see what you guys thought?

Old combination: “Old Faithful”
(has been together for 6 year with about 1,500 passes on it, has been as fast as 9.40 at 145 with different heads (fully ported Zeekers) but with current combination best was 9.58 at 142)
500” Mega Block
- Indy 440-1 Heads that flow Int 309/ Exh 221 @ .700, (42/12 cfm improvement over out of the box head on my machinist flow bench)
- Harland Sharp 1.6 rockers (well I found out this winter that 6 of the 8 intake rockers were 1.5 ratio….)
- Scott Brown/Straight line Performance Solid Cam with EDM lifters .648/.640 lift, 274/280 @.050 duration, 112 Lobe Sep, Centerline 108 (installed straight up)
- Isky 9005 springs – 180 seat and 450 open pressure
- Ti retainer, Manley lash caps
- Indy single Dominator Intake
- K1 4.15 stroke with Mopar rod journals
- 440 Source I-beam 6.76 rods
- 4.380 Diamond Pistons (standard ring pack, 1/16, 1/16, 3/16)
- 12 to 1 compression
- Cometic 4.410 .040 head gaskets
- 1050 Chuck Nuytten Alcohol Dominator
- 2 1/8 headers, 4” exhaust with Borla 4” x 18” oval Sportsman Mufflers

-- Non-Motor info/setup --
- Evacuation system, no vacuum pump
- Moroso Center Sump oil pan with Milodon’s windage try, single line Static pickup and Pump cover with Melling HV oil pump
- J&J sportsman diaper with removable pig mat
- Australian Motorsports belt drive system
- MSD 7AL3, Pro Power Coil, Taylor 409 wires (moving to FireCore 50 wires)
- AR3911 plugs
- Enderle Mechanical Fuel Pump
- Shogun external water pump
- 1 wire chevy alternator
- ARC Pro Stock overhead Switch panel 3700
- 2 Red Top Optima AGM Batteries
- MasterLube 3 Qt Oil Accumulator System set at 75psi
- Castrol Syntec Synthetic 20w50 with 1 pint of Hughes Engines Extreeme pressure lubricant (Zinc additive) going to Rotela T6 synthetic 5w40 with roller cam this year
- 1/4” aluminum front motor plate, 1/8 steel mid plate and an engine limiter/strut that runs horizontally from the frame to the passenger side lower bell housing/tranny mount/bolt
- Powerglide (vlasco input, 1.80 straight cut gears, JW Ultra case, JW Ultra bell, JW/Mezire 8 bolt billet flex plate, TransKing electric shift Pro-brake valve body, roller bearing governor support, reworked/enhanced BTE stock case pump, external cooler with 10” fan)
- Dynamic 9” converter, stalled 5,500 but was slipping 13% and wasn’t locking up spinning the motor 7,600 in the 1/4
- Strange Engineering Chromalloy 3.5” drive shaft w/ 1350 u-joints
- Strange aluminum GT double adjustable 6” travel front struts with 4 piston caliper brakes, 28” Goodyear front runners
- Ladder bars with double adjustable AFCO struts with 120lbs QA1 springs (non-adjustable but putting in new rod ends and having a chassis guy make them adjustable for me this winter)
- 4.56 pro gears in a Dana 60 with stock drum brakes and strange billet 1350 yoke
- Moser 35 spline axels (10 years old and still look perfect, 1 was cut down and re-splined 2 years ago and swapped sides when we straightened up the Dana housing, housing was longer on one side than the other, now both axles are the same length)
- 14 x 32 Goodyears -1984
- Centerline Warrior Wheels 3.5” front and 12” rear – they are 18 years old, planned on replace them this year until I hurt the motor, need to move to 14” wheel and was thinking Weld V-Series, maybe next year…
-3,200 lbs race weight

New combination: “Frankenstein”
- 526” Mega Block
- K1 4.25 with 2.2 Chevy journal (Mopar width) (reusing the main bearings, they looked perfect)
- Eagle 7.100 rods (used but only had 69 passes and I know the motor they came out of, also reusing the bearings)
- 4.440 Diamond Pistons (standard ring pack, 1/16, 1/16, 3/16)
- 12.6 to 1 compression
- Fel-Pro 1039 .051 composite head gasket
- Lunati Roller Cam .678/.678 lift, 278/286 duration @.050, 112 Lob Sep, 108 Centerline (~.030 more lift, 6 degrees more duration on both int & exh, same Lobe Sep and Centerline)
(This was a damaged Lunati roller cam that I picked up in 2012 at Monster Mopar for $25 and had it reground using 53714LUN specs but keeping LS/IC)
- PAC 1325-16 Springs – 314 Seat and 752 open pressure (644lbs spring rate, installing at 1.910, bind at 1.150)
- New Valves but no porting, just standard valve job
- Harland Sharp 1.6 rocker (not mismatched 6 - 1.5 and 2 - 1.6 intake rockers)
- Milodon 31161 dragster/chassis pan, dual line swinging pick up, Muscle Motor Oil Pump cover, Milodon 21815 oil Pump with external fitting for 2nd pick-up line
- Dynamic 9” converter sent in to tighten it up on the top end but leave the stall around 5,500, want to shift at 6,800 and go through 1/4 at 7,000 – 7,200.

Essentially 26 more cubic inches, a little more stroke & bore, a little more compression, a little more cam(roller vs solid), better oiling system and a little tighter converter.


Wade Metzinger 918-809-0987
71 Cuda 9.28@145 -1s, Pglide
68 Cuda 10.64@124 1.45 60's 318->390 eddys
Moparts discount code on WIX - moparts www.Filter1.com
Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574598
02/05/14 10:14 PM
02/05/14 10:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Those are some decent changes.More Cubes, comp, and cam. That cams going to be a bigger change then it looks numbers wise because its a roller.

Id say a Minimum of .2 maybe more like .3 to .4 Just a guess though because at 9.4 it does take alot more hp for gains to happen.

Last edited by Sport440; 02/06/14 02:47 AM.
Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: Sport440] #1574599
02/05/14 11:55 PM
02/05/14 11:55 PM
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dvw Offline
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Basically we've gained 26" and a roller cam. At your level it takes 20-25 HP/.10 gain. Personally the cubes shouldn't gain any HP, just torque, unless the heads were to large to start with. However with a glide at 3200lbs the extra torque could be beneficial. I think it all depends on the converter. If it's right it will pick up .10-.20
Doug

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: dvw] #1574600
02/06/14 01:43 AM
02/06/14 01:43 AM
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Oklahoma
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hemiiroc Offline
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Probably only .10 without more head work

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: hemiiroc] #1574601
02/06/14 07:23 PM
02/06/14 07:23 PM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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The heads have a lot left in them, I think my head porter's flow bench is a little stingy so that's why I include the from/to #'s and increase numbers. I asked him to basically clean them up, make all the ports flow the same and do a good valve job and for $500 it picked the car up 4 tenths.

What is typical flow for OOTB 440-1s at .700?

I'm good with .1 to .15 increase, it's fast enough as it is. I have a KB block on order so that 200lbs reduction will pick it up another .1 to .15.

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574602
02/06/14 08:06 PM
02/06/14 08:06 PM
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1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: pittsburghracer] #1574603
02/06/14 08:22 PM
02/06/14 08:22 PM
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WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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So if I uses those number for OOTB -1's 282/185 and he increased flow 42/12 it would be 332/197. Here are my flow numbers:

----- Intake -----
Lift OTB Ported Change
100 65 69 4
200 126 140 14
300 183 195 12
400 232 247 15
450 251 264 13
500 265 278 13
550 270 294 24
600 269 301 32
650 272 309 37
700 274 316 42


------ Exhaust ------
Lift OTB Ported Change
100 61 70 9
200 115 116 1
300 153 150 -3
400 182 181 -1
450 190 192 2
500 196 201 5
550 201 207 6
600 203 212 9
650 206 217 11
700 209 221 12

"Int / Exh %"
101%
83%
77%
73%
73%
72%
70%
70%
70%
70%

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574604
02/06/14 09:08 PM
02/06/14 09:08 PM
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Sport440 Offline
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The 1,s on that chart that I see are flowing 325 @.700 OOTB Ported there coming in at 350 to 370 @ .700

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: Sport440] #1574605
02/09/14 10:08 PM
02/09/14 10:08 PM
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Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin Offline
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MCH's 345cc CNC ported -1's flow around 382cfm, and can support 955hp...

I think the combo with a glide will like the stroke and compression increase and pick up .2 to .3

Good luck with it!

Arnie


67 Cuda 8.48@ 158.7 mph 1.18 60' 2,600 DA(so far...) 70 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 4-speed. 13.2 @ 104 Stock exhaust/Street tires.
Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574606
02/09/14 10:27 PM
02/09/14 10:27 PM
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440Jim Offline
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Quote:

The heads have a lot left in them, I think my head porter's flow bench is a little stingy so that's why I include the from/to #'s and increase numbers.


I noticed that in your original post, so I am guessing on another flow bench your heads might flow 340 or more.

I think 0.20 is there, and maybe a little bit more. I would have liked to see you add more CR by milling the heads or something. I am thinking the roller cam will like the finish line rpm better than the flat tappet did, so you will see a mph increase. (7600?, 4.56, 32", 142 mph)

Will your KB block be 4.500" bore? That should get your CR close to 13.0 and the alcohol will support much more. I would mill the heads when you build that motor.

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: 440Jim] #1574607
02/10/14 12:22 AM
02/10/14 12:22 AM
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Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Thanks guys for the input, sounds like I wasn't too far off.

Jim, no I'm starting out with a 4.360 bore, I really don't want to go much faster. It will be a 496" 4.15 stroke with these heads, cam, lifters and belt drive from the "Frankenstein" motor so it'll make less power but be 150 to 200 lbs lighter so it will probably another .10 faster still. I'm keeping the compression around 12:1. I may be off here but I've always thought that compression above 12.5 is harder on parts and makes power but not enough to justify to the abuse to me because I want to put a lot of passes on the motor without major maintenance. But that's just my theory I've picked up from my machinist. But I agree you need much more compression to make much more power.

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574608
02/10/14 02:26 AM
02/10/14 02:26 AM
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Sport440 Offline
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Quote:

Thanks guys for the input, sounds like I wasn't too far off.

Jim, no I'm starting out with a 4.360 bore, I really don't want to go much faster. It will be a 496" 4.15 stroke with these heads, cam, lifters and belt drive from the "Frankenstein" motor so it'll make less power but be 150 to 200 lbs lighter so it will probably another .10 faster still. I'm keeping the compression around 12:1. I may be off here but I've always thought that compression above 12.5 is harder on parts and makes power but not enough to justify to the abuse to me because I want to put a lot of passes on the motor without major maintenance. But that's just my theory I've picked up from my machinist. But I agree you need much more compression to make much more power.





Okay, now your losing me. The New engine was going to be a 526 ci. with 12.6 comp.

But now its a 496 with 12.1 comp.???

Your heads flow more then that stingy flow bench shows as others have mentioned.

So your new combo is not the 526 ci motor.????

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574609
02/10/14 02:29 AM
02/10/14 02:29 AM
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Sport440 Offline
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Quote:



New combination: “Frankenstein”
- 526” Mega Block
- K1 4.25 with 2.2 Chevy journal (Mopar width) (reusing the main bearings, they looked perfect)
- Eagle 7.100 rods (used but only had 69 passes and I know the motor they came out of, also reusing the bearings)
- 4.440 Diamond Pistons (standard ring pack, 1/16, 1/16, 3/16)
- 12.6 to 1 compression
- Fel-Pro 1039 .051 composite head gasket
- Lunati Roller Cam .678/.678 lift, 278/286 duration @.050, 112 Lob Sep, 108 Centerline (~.030 more lift, 6 degrees more duration on both int & exh, same Lobe Sep and Centerline)
(This was a damaged Lunati roller cam that I picked up in 2012 at Monster Mopar for $25 and had it reground using 53714LUN specs but keeping LS/IC)
- PAC 1325-16 Springs – 314 Seat and 752 open pressure (644lbs spring rate, installing at 1.910, bind at 1.150)
- New Valves but no porting, just standard valve job
- Harland Sharp 1.6 rocker (not mismatched 6 - 1.5 and 2 - 1.6 intake rockers)
- Milodon 31161 dragster/chassis pan, dual line swinging pick up, Muscle Motor Oil Pump cover, Milodon 21815 oil Pump with external fitting for 2nd pick-up line
- Dynamic 9” converter sent in to tighten it up on the top end but leave the stall around 5,500, want to shift at 6,800 and go through 1/4 at 7,000 – 7,200.






Essentially 26 more cubic inches, a little more stroke & bore, a little more compression, a little more cam(roller vs solid), better oiling system and a little tighter converter.




Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574610
02/10/14 10:24 AM
02/10/14 10:24 AM
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WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Quote:

I'm good with .1 to .15 increase, it's fast enough as it is. I have a KB block on order so that 200lbs reduction will pick it up another .1 to .15.




Sorry for the confusion, in one of my replies I mentioned that I have KB on order and Jim noticed and asked me about that but that motor will not be built for a while. This post and motor info is about the 526" repaired Mega block motor.

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574611
02/21/14 12:23 AM
02/21/14 12:23 AM
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WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Assembly is coming along, just a little slower than I'd like but this isn't the time to take short cuts and get into a rush.

Rotating assembly has been balanced, rods and pistons put together, rings filed (I got in a hurry and broke one..... One set was $30 so I just bought a full set for $102, I think I stretched one or two others so I may replace a few others)

2365 bob weight with eagle h-beam rods
Piston 596
Pins 178
Locks 5
Rings 58
Little end 242
Big end 593
Bearing x 2 48= 96
Oil 4

Degreed the cam in at 104.5. My machinist thinks the cam is to big with my 12.5 compression so we advanced it 4 degrees to increase the cylinder pressure at low RPM and give a little more bottom end.

Gapped the rings .020 top and .025 second to help keep the alcohol from washing the cylinders down.

Main clearance was .0015 to .002 so I got a set of King x bearings to get .003.

Rod clearance is .003 so they are good to go.

Rod side clearance is .032

Pistons are .011 in the hole

Ran out of time to check piston to valve and measure for push rod clearance. So I've only got 2 pistons installed. Hoping we don't have to cut the pistons for valve clearance because I've already put all the rods and pistons together and I'm running out of time. Our first points race is March 22.

Here are a few picture of the rods and pistons and the piston build card. They are diamond part number 52030 but changed to 4.440 bore. (4.25 stroke, 7.100 rod and 1.480 compression height) pins are standard pins, I've always upgraded the pins but when talking to diamond they told for my application the standard would work just fine.

8047560-image.jpg (378 downloads)
Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574612
02/21/14 12:24 AM
02/21/14 12:24 AM
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WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Another piston pic

8047563-image.jpg (372 downloads)
Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574613
02/21/14 12:25 AM
02/21/14 12:25 AM
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WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Piston pic 3

8047566-image.jpg (362 downloads)
Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574614
02/21/14 12:25 AM
02/21/14 12:25 AM
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WadeMetzinger Offline OP
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Piston build card

8047569-image.jpg (397 downloads)
Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: WadeMetzinger] #1574615
02/21/14 05:09 PM
02/21/14 05:09 PM
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Quote:

They are diamond part number 52030 but changed to 4.440 bore. (4.25 stroke, 7.100 rod and 1.480 compression height) pins are standard pins, I've always upgraded the pins but when talking to diamond they told for my application the standard would work just fine.


A reliable source told me that several years ago most shelf pistons came with a 0.155" wall pin, but now-a-days Diamond is using 0.185" wall pins and your 178 gram weight confirms what you have. The 0.990 x 2.93 pins with 0.155" wall were around 150-155 grams.

Re: Predictions on ET increases with new motor? [Re: 440Jim] #1574616
02/22/14 10:23 AM
02/22/14 10:23 AM
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I think the changes are going to surprise you, and you will be a solid .20 or more quicker. You are increasing the motor size by five percent, the heads flow that much more, and the cam is bigger by more than that for sure. If rest of the package is close, the motor will pull very hard down low, and you may be able to shift it below 6800 and still go as fast. You could also run less gear. My 528 with 2.30 intake valves and full porting only wants 7100 rpm for best ET. I am also thinking that glide is going to love the extra cubes and compression.

Last edited by gregsdart; 02/22/14 10:30 AM.

8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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