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Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation
[Re: GLR]
#1571124
01/30/14 11:38 AM
01/30/14 11:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,988
Warren, MI
Jerry
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,988
Warren, MI
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see the attachment. for 100 amps all you need to do is run a supplemental wire from the back of the alternator to the starter relay. this way the current will bypass the bulkhead and go right to the battery. that's the simple explanation.
Last edited by Jerry; 01/30/14 11:40 AM.
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Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation
[Re: GLR]
#1571126
01/30/14 11:45 AM
01/30/14 11:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,988
Warren, MI
Jerry
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,988
Warren, MI
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if your considering adding any more modern accessories, like lighting relays, electric fans, power windows, fuel pumps, efi, etc. doing this mod makes sense. even if you not thinking of adding these extras doing this mod makes sense. it removes the current from the ammeter and the old 45year old wiring and is safer overall.
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Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation
[Re: GLR]
#1571128
01/30/14 12:48 PM
01/30/14 12:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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My  . (1) use the alt that meets your electrical/visual requirements (2) relay electrical add ons directly to this alt (3) Nacho's bulkhead parallel bypass (4) If you ARE eliminating the ammeter then as said run a charge wire (with overload protection, FL or...) from alt to starter relay. Just me I keep the ammeter & add a voltmeter to switched 12V, relay add ons to the alt, clean/check ALL terminals/connections, do Nacho's bulkhead parallel bypass. You can have a 1000 amp alt & all kinds of electrical draws & if they are being fed right from the source (the alt) with relays & the wiring is clean/tight/adequate gauge then all is good & no effect on the rest of the vehicle.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation
[Re: Andrewh]
#1571129
01/30/14 01:10 PM
01/30/14 01:10 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
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Quote:
100 amps might be a bit overkill depending on what additonal accessories you plan on running.
when you say restoration, do you mean that, where everything should look stock?
or resto mod, where as long as it is close you are happy?
because those things make a difference in how much you can upgrade.
the mad bypass "looks" fairly stock, but higher than 100 amp alts don't really look stock.
78 amps is the highest "stock" square back you can get from a parts store with life time warranties.
there are kits and powermaster alts that go to 100 amps ish for the square and round backs.
then there are the later denso alts from toyota's and pre magnum trucks.
but really unless you are running electric fan's, fuel pump and a few other things that are high amp draw's do you really need it?
what are you trying to fix?
not true.
You can get a thousand amps alt if you want, but if car and accesories only requires 60 amps, the alternator will only source 60 amps. Nothing to overkill from alternator really
which will overkill the system is adding lot of accesories, sourced from the wrong side of the charging system, plus bad condition connections/wires.. PLUS an uneficient charging system.
A Giant power reserve batt with an unrated alternator also will overkill the system, because makes to work the charging system allways on Discharge side, with constant stress.
So keep a relativelly stock batt and better alt and you'll be done!.
Better a bigger alt with a "small" capacity alt, than backwards. It has been a local ( Venezuela ) GIANT mistake, upgrade the cars with big capacity batteries keeping the stock alt, plus at the time source all added accesories from Batt. The batt and accesories conected to, will keep sucking power forever, keeping discharge reading from an alt unable to refill it and source added acc. This will add stress on all wiring related and ammeter burning everything.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation
[Re: GLR]
#1571134
01/30/14 04:15 PM
01/30/14 04:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,452
Morristown Tn.
71birdJ68
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,452
Morristown Tn.
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I think something that should also be considered when talking about the charging/ electrical system. Corrosion on all the connections in the car after 40+ years, especially the electronic voltage regulator, and ignition box. Those are case grounded, and only with the two or three sheet metal bolts. Ever noticed the potting running down the firewall where they have been running hot, before they fail? My thinking is corrosion builds up, and the ground gets weaker, and weaker causing the box to draw more, and more current until it fails. Something I did was to brush down to bare metal both on the firewall, and the backside of the box, and under the bolt head. Remember this is just a sheet metal bolt that can get loose over time, so I also on the other side of the sheet metal put a toothed lock washer that will chew into the metal and self a locking nut on it. Any thoughts on this?
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Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#1571135
01/30/14 05:55 PM
01/30/14 05:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,671
Andrewh
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,671
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in my case, for everything that required a body ground, I ran a new ground wire to it directly. either from the battery or the block.
I don't rely on sheet metal screws to ground something if I can help it.
as for the op-
I would then step up to over 100 amps if you are truly going to run all that stuff.
While I was able to run on a 78 amp square back for a while, short hops eventally would drain my battery all the way down.
since I mostly only do incity stop and go, errands to the store type stuff, I found it couldn't keep up.
after switching out to a 90 amp or 120 amp(honestly not sure which since it is a boneyard alt,) it has kept up fine.
however in my case, it was the whole motor.
in your case, you will have to get AndyF's or mancini's(which may be the same) specific brackets for the alt you picked if you go the later denso alts, or spend some bigger bucks then I like, on a powermaster.
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Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation
[Re: GLR]
#1571136
01/30/14 07:35 PM
01/30/14 07:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
ahy
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master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
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Quote:
So..can anyone tell me what amperage would be enough to run the following options that will be on my car;
A/C
Cruise control
power windows
200 watt stereo/ with CD changer
Factory Hide away headlights
Power seats
possible electric fan maybe a dual fan set up
That's all I can think of..
For all but the electric fan a 78 amp square back should do it... with some dimming at idle likely. The square back, by design, does not have much idle output. The uprated versions gain peak output but not idle output.
Add the electric fan and you need something better. A decent fan will pull 20-40 amps and you need it to work at idle. A 120 amp Denso, 140 amp Powermaster or big frame 100 amp Chrysler unit would be good choices.
The "with AC" brackets complicate fitting a non stock alternator. Distance from top to bottom mounts is fixed by the brackets and must match the alternator in most cases. With stock heads, the Powermaster 140 amp GM derived alternator for MOPARs may fit. With Ed heads, no go. The output stud wants to hit the head. At lease mine did.
On my junk - with large A1000 high pressure EFI pump, AC and lots of electronics - I tried the 75 amp Powermaster squareback. It worked but barely. The 20+ amp fuel pump running all the time was just too much for it. I put the "big Chrysler" 100 amp unit on it ('78 Cordoba core engine) and it works great. Just heavy.
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Re: Alternator upgrade...and wiring modifacation
[Re: GLR]
#1571139
01/30/14 09:46 PM
01/30/14 09:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 36
Alberta, Canada
572hemi
member
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member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 36
Alberta, Canada
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Not sure if you would be interested but I have a pt 8-47529 I bought at Mancini (Mopar Nats last summer). It is s chrome unit, powermaster 140 amo, used it less than 100 miles, problem was not the alternator but a connection issue. New price is $263.95, sell for $150 plus shipping
1967 GTX 572 HEMI 735 HP, 717 FT Lb T, , A-855 5 Speed, Dana 60 4:30 Gears, 30" Rear Tires
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