Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: JeffsCustomPaint] #15543
06/03/05 11:06 PM
06/03/05 11:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,006
Yorktown VA
motorheadjohn Offline
Ridin' Shotgun
motorheadjohn  Offline
Ridin' Shotgun

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,006
Yorktown VA
Didn't mean to possibly sound ungrateful...I appreciate all the technical knowledge on the board and the testing you have done on this type of technique. But for that question above about value...seems to me, if you want it to look original in order to retain value, a flange joint does not seem like the right choice. On a race car or "lower value" car, it could be acceptible.


Chicks in the mirror are fatter than they appear
Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: motorheadjohn] #15544
06/03/05 11:17 PM
06/03/05 11:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,068
Waddell AZ
A
azblackhemi Offline
super stock
azblackhemi  Offline
super stock
A

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,068
Waddell AZ
According to both my SEM and 3M reps the reason for welding the rear areas around the tailights on a bonded quarter panel repair is because the shear strength is not as good as the lap strength but bonding is definatly the way to go. Just follow the manufacturers directions. Even city transit bus body panels are bonded now.

Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: motorheadjohn] #15545
06/03/05 11:18 PM
06/03/05 11:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,908
Galloway,New Jersey near Atlan...
J
JeffsCustomPaint Offline OP
master
JeffsCustomPaint  Offline OP
master
J

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,908
Galloway,New Jersey near Atlan...
John,
when you do a butt joint you have to gring down the welds on the inside and do bodywork to hide it.Read the final part on Partial quarters.
you can grind the inside and smooth it with filler then spray with Paintable Rubberized Undercoating
then just paint as usual.Mopar but heavy
undercoat on the inside of the trunk area on
most cars.
Once you replace any quarter it's not original
butt welded,plug welded,tack welded,or bonded.
any good bodyman can tell if a panel has been
replaced no matter how good of a repair you do.
It may be consealed under the moldings and such
but the proof is there.


AZblackhemi,
I edited the procedure and added the welding of the rear seam.Was trying to stay away from that cause not everyone has a welder and the stuff
required to bond panels is less expensive than a welder.but I put it in cause you all were pointing it out.I know that,i was tought it.
I was trying to eliminate them needing to get a welder for a few welds.

thanks -Jeff

Last edited by jeffscustompaint; 06/03/05 11:41 PM.
Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: JeffsCustomPaint] #15546
06/03/05 11:53 PM
06/03/05 11:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,006
Yorktown VA
motorheadjohn Offline
Ridin' Shotgun
motorheadjohn  Offline
Ridin' Shotgun

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,006
Yorktown VA
Maybe, maybe not. I have watched Ron Covell hammer a butt-weld joint smooth and finish it off, no grinding whatsoever, and half of that bead was TIG welded while the other half was gas welded. I have the sample piece in my garage to prove it.

Am I an expert at doing this? No way. Ron is an incredible artist on metal, but I understand the process and am working on being better with it. Wouldn't it be easier for me to bond panels? YES, but I keep working at being a better metal worker. My biggest concern with a butt-weld is pinholes or small cracks and letting moisture under the finish, so what do I do? Practice practice practice.

My best friend from high school has quit his full-time job to deal cars full time, been doing it over a year now and I would say it's a success. I go to a few shows with him each year and we look at lots of cars for sale when we go. Looking at investment type cars, the thing I look at first is the quality of the bodywork. He has looked at lots of cars that I immediately pass on because of a big nasty and clearly cheaply done flange joint or lap joints on the patch panels, and some not even undercoated when finished??? I don't know what those guys are thinking, but man they are proud of that trunk with the lid open for all to see.

You're obviously way ahead of me in this area, and will surely make me look the fool easily. I'm just saying I think there are some advantages of each method and the type of car would influence my choice. Avoiding a flange or lap would be a priority for me on any valuable or collectible car.


Chicks in the mirror are fatter than they appear
Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: motorheadjohn] #15547
06/04/05 12:26 AM
06/04/05 12:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,908
Galloway,New Jersey near Atlan...
J
JeffsCustomPaint Offline OP
master
JeffsCustomPaint  Offline OP
master
J

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,908
Galloway,New Jersey near Atlan...
John,
Most hobbiest people can't weld a butt joint or weld that good period.
If they try to weld a partial quarter they may
muck it up.Anybody can learn to bond.
If they want they can smooth and hide the seam inside trunk.
It is up to them how well they want to do the repair.
That is why I like full quarters.
no seam to fill and hide.But there arn't full
1/4's for alot of cars,to difficult to make tooling I guess.
-Jeff

Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: JeffsCustomPaint] #15548
06/04/05 12:30 AM
06/04/05 12:30 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Having used panel adhesive myself and restoring a couple of cars that had panels bonded by previous bodyshops,I have some experience that I can relate to.
1.The glue is only as good as the guy applying it.If the metal is properly prepped and cleaned,it adheres well,but I have personally seen the stuff let go,probably from sloppy workmanship,which seems to be common with guys who like to cut corners and cheap out.You definitely do not want this stuff coming apart after the car is painted -then what ? How do you correct the problem.You cannot weld it now with all the glue in between !
2.I agree that it works well around wheel lips and the lower 1/4 ,as well as door skin bonding-it does seal things nicely to prevent corrosion-BUT-I would never bond the upper "splice" portion or in the center of a panel.YOU ARE ASKING FOR TROUBLE ! That joint will show up as a ghost line in the paint and will haunt you forever ! Then what?How do you fix that now ?
3.What do you do about the screw or rivit holes after the glue is hard ?Most guys remove them and fill it in with a dab of the glue BUT-I personally redid the 1/4's on a B body recently for a fellow who had bonded them on.After cutting thru the upper glued overlap to PROPERLY BUTT WELD the joint,there was rust at every screw hole because the screws pull the panels together so tight that all the glue is forced out ,leaving a totally bare unbonded section about the size of a dime.NOT GOOD
A friend bonded lower door skins etc on a pickup and after less than 2 years the overlapped Splices were all cracking and or ghosting.
Why on earth would you want to overlap two metal panels,and then cover the step with a pile of body filler ?This is a cheapo method .
Panel adhesive has it's merits,but let's not go encouraging any novices to go mess up their prized Mopars by hacking off their 1/4's and bonding on a panel only to ruin the car.
1/4 panel replacement is best left to an experienced bodyman who takes pride in workmanship and Butt welds the splice joints.Even a lap welded joint can cause ghosting problems because of the step.Come on guys DO IT RIGHT OR DON"T DO IT AT ALL !

Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure #15549
06/04/05 12:51 AM
06/04/05 12:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,908
Galloway,New Jersey near Atlan...
J
JeffsCustomPaint Offline OP
master
JeffsCustomPaint  Offline OP
master
J

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,908
Galloway,New Jersey near Atlan...
Oh,Now you are the Professional and your way is the only way.Well say what you want I don't go aroound putting you down so please don't come on here and start putting me down or a method I was requested in writing.Just Agree to disagree and leave it at that.Personally I hate all partial
1/4 skins.i'd rather use a used one than splice.
I usually fix whats there unless it's total junk.
Most of the cars I work on are pretty nice.
Just giving an option to those who wanted it.
I have bonded scoops on hoods with this stuff with no bad results.Like you said if its done
improper,any repair can haunt you,welding included.
I was asked to do this so i did.
Please go take your negativity to another thread
thanks.

-Jeff

Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: JeffsCustomPaint] #15550
06/04/05 05:47 AM
06/04/05 05:47 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



I think it boils down to this,

Old school verses New school, Glue it, weld it, That is the question. One thing is that this is good information for all, Like it or not. I commend Jeff for taking the time to point out what to do since so many asked. Just that some doesnt want to do it, and wont do it, then the guys that entertains the idea to try it ask to know somebodys got to answer, Jeff did that.
So should you weld it, Or glue it, You decide.

Peace
Rich

Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure #15551
06/04/05 06:15 AM
06/04/05 06:15 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,908
Galloway,New Jersey near Atlan...
J
JeffsCustomPaint Offline OP
master
JeffsCustomPaint  Offline OP
master
J

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,908
Galloway,New Jersey near Atlan...
Thanks Rich,
Well said. I would love to have this post locked.
tired of the negativity.

Page 2 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1