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Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure #15523
06/03/05 06:09 AM
06/03/05 06:09 AM
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Galloway,New Jersey near Atlan...
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JeffsCustomPaint Offline OP
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Alot of you People building your own cars
requested the process to attach skins using
Panel Bonding Adhesive.
Quarter Panel Bonding
Step 1. Remove all trim and any glass that needs to be removed.
Step 2. Jack vehicle up in rear and support
body with jack stands(try to make car level)
remove wheel.
Step 3. Look at new panel and determine attachement points and seams.
Using a grinder(air powered is best) with 24or 36
grit disc,grind paint off at any seams where
new panel must attach, grinding lead out of seam
exposing spot welds(not necessary on partial 1/4)
Step 4.Using a spot weld drill bit,drill out spot welds.
Drilling spot welds
A. Using a wire wheel on drill or die grinder
remove paint exposing any spotwelds that you
may not see,or covered with paint on all seams.
B. using a centerpunch,punch the center of all
spotwelds.
C.Using a spotweld cutter(Blair,Blair RotaBroach)
Drill panel till it goes thru one thickness of
metal.Drilling out each weld.
Spotwelds are located on all seams,wheel opening,
and joints.Do Not Drill Thru Metal All The Way.

D. Using a flat scraper or chisel and hammer,
slide between the two metals and pry the two
layers of metal.If metal doesn't pop apart,look
for a weld you missed or not drilled deep enough.
you may have to chisel between welds to release
if small bit of metal is holding panel.

Step 5. After drilling all welds look for any
spots that may have been brazed(brass welding)
if you find take a torch heating brass and
using a small prybar or scraper lift on panel
while heatng(Caution,Do Not Get Metal Red Hot)
torch should melt brass and release panel.

Step 6.Remove old skin. Taking a hammer
and dolly.Straighten any edges that may have
gotten bent during removal.

Step 7.Grind smooth and remove paint from
all welding flanges and seams.

Step 8.Fit new panel in place making sure
edges and body lines match adjacent panels.
Hold in place using clamps or cleeko pins.
Cleeko's are good for realigning panel during
bonding process.
On the back seam along rear bodypanel,drill
some 5/16ths holes into 1/4 skin for plug
welding it to rear body panel later.
(stitch welds can be used instead also)
Step 9.Remove new panel and place face down.
Take ginder and remove black E-coat around
inside edges(panel mateing surface)grind coating
off about half to three quarters wide.
Step 10.Apply a bead of Panel Bonding Adhesive
around inside edge of 1/4 skin, using a plastic spreader,
spread adhesive smooth covering all bare metal.

Step 11. Apply bead of adhesive on body flanges
where 1/4 skin meets,and smooth also like above.

Step 12. Apply 1/8in. bead of adhesive around
body flange surfaces.
Step 13. Place 1/4 skin on car aligning panel
to adjacent panels,making sure gaps are even
and bodylines line up.Then clamp in place
using vice grips or cleeko holding pins.
Let panel dry according to adhesive instructions.
Plug or stitch weld the rear body joint after
the adhesive has cured.
Partial 1/4 skin supplement
A. When removing old 1/4 skin cut along edge
of 1/4 leaving approx. 2 inches extra metal
underneath where top edge of partial skin stops.
B. Remove old skin and place partial skin
in place,aligning panel to adjacent panels.
C. Taking 3/4 masking tape,tape along edge of
partial skin (tape above partial 1/4 edge)
D. This step requires a flanging tool
(Air operated or hand pliers)Flange a piece
of scrap metal.Measure from edge of metal to
where crimp in metal is.Using this measurement
mark old 1/4.
E. Measure from edge of tape down to the
above crimp width measurement.cut excess metal
off to bottom of new mark.
F. Flange metal along length of old 1/4 at edge.
G. Place new partial skin in place,align panel
and check to make sure edge of panel sits
flush in flange.(trim edge of 1/4 skin if
necessary)
H. Clamp new panel in place(aligning gaps and
body lines) drill 1/8th in. holes thru
1/4 skin along seam halfway down from edge of
old and top of new panel.Secure with cleeko pins
or screws.
I. remove panel and grind coating off inside
of partial 1/4 approx. 1/2 in. down from edge.
grind any paint along old 1/4 edge.
J. Apply a liberal amount of adhesive to both
old 1/4 and new skin using same method as
above mentioned process. apply the 1/8th in.
bead of adhesive along flange and place 1/4 skin
in place.
K. align skin and put cleeko's or screws in
excisting holes along seam.Use Above method
for attching the other areas of 1/4 skin.
Let adhesive dry then smooth seam with grinder.
(Weld rear body seam as mentioned in above)
L. After removeing cleeko's and smoothing seam
with grinder,apply a coat of either
Duraglass filler or All Metal filler over seam.
smooth seam straight with sanding block
and 36 grit sand paper.
M. Finish seam with body filler then sand and
prime panel.(Inside trunk seam of 1/4 can be
smoothed over with above method then sprayed
with Paintable Rubberized Undercoating & Painted)



Tools and Materials Required
4-5 in. grinder with 24or 36 grit discs

Panel Cutter(cut-off tool or shear type)

Flat scraper or chisel

Body Hammer and Metal dolly

SpotWeld Cutter( Blair double blade or Blair
RotaBroach Cutters work best)

Cleeko panel holding pins or 1/8th in.screws
Cleeko Pliers

Flange Tool (Air operated or hand pliers)

SEM or 3M Panel Bonding Adhesive & Applicator gun
(SEM applicator gun is cheapest-Approx. $60)
(3M App. Gun is Approx. $130-$150)
Wire Feed welder for plug or stitch welding
rear body seam.
3/4 in. Tape
Pencil or Marker(Sharpie)
Sanding Block and 36 grit paper
Duraglass or All Metal filler
Body filler and Sandpaper
Paintable Rubberized Undercoating

Last edited by jeffscustompaint; 06/03/05 11:34 PM.
Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: JeffsCustomPaint] #15524
06/03/05 12:17 PM
06/03/05 12:17 PM

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Gotta Love that cut and paste ehh Jeff!

Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure #15525
06/03/05 12:32 PM
06/03/05 12:32 PM
Joined: May 2004
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Las Vegas
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afxcoronet Offline
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Thank you for that, I have a '66 satellite that I'll be using those procedures on, later this summer. Now if I could only find complete rear quarters for the thing.
Curtis


Taking over the World one win light at a time.
Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: JeffsCustomPaint] #15526
06/03/05 12:39 PM
06/03/05 12:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,535
North Las Vegas
chewy Offline
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Does a bonded quarter reduce the value of your car? How well does the bond hold up over time and heat and/or accidents?

Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: JeffsCustomPaint] #15527
06/03/05 12:45 PM
06/03/05 12:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
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Looking for a way out of Middl...
IMGTX Offline
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Great now you tell me....

After I bought a welder and learned to weld just so I could replace my own quarters.....

Just Kidding

Nice info.

Thanks

Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: IMGTX] #15528
06/03/05 04:22 PM
06/03/05 04:22 PM

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JMHO

I wouldnt use bonding on old Muscle..I/E Torque in these cars have been known to buckle stuff up..lol Like Passanger side floor pans which B bodys are famous for.
But for Show cars an such, I guess it would be ok.

Last edited by gilmerzauto; 06/03/05 04:24 PM.
Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: chewy] #15529
06/03/05 05:20 PM
06/03/05 05:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
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Willow Grove PA
71sat440 Offline
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Quote:

Does a bonded quarter reduce the value of your car? How well does the bond hold up over time and heat and/or accidents?




Well if I believe the rep that sells the stuff to me, he says you can take two pieces and overlap them 1/4 inch with the adhesive then play tug-o-war with the metal between two frame machines and the metal will tear before the adhesive.
As far as acidents we were told never to use the stuff on frames etc as it will be strong enough to eliminate the crumple zones.
Can't answer as far as heat (or cold for that matter) or value but consider the following.

No gaps between spotwelds, a 100% seal all the way around, no place for moisture to hide between panels.

No laying down on your back trying to mig over your head.
No grinding down spot welds, which not only saves time but $ in discs.
The most heat generated is from grinding the surface to be preped, no welding near flamable stuff or worrying about catching carpets on fire etc.
Other then trying to duplicate the look of a factory spot weld, I see no advantages of welding over the adhesive unless you are good enough to butt (SP?) weld.
Just my but I havn't used the stuff since I left the bodyshop a few years ago, If anything I'm sure theirs alot of improvents since I've used it.

Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: 71sat440] #15530
06/03/05 05:33 PM
06/03/05 05:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,957
Wendy, I'm home.
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Wendy, I'm home.
What's the lifespan now days of adhesive? I talked to a guy in Colorado Springs a few years ago about my A12 and he said 20 years.....


I told myself 'No way am I going to use adhesive if I'll have to redo this car because the glue won't last.'


dstryr, since 1986.
Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure #15531
06/03/05 07:54 PM
06/03/05 07:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,908
Galloway,New Jersey near Atlan...
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JeffsCustomPaint Offline OP
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JeffsCustomPaint  Offline OP
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Rich,
Sorry,I didn't understand your statement.
You were being humorous,I go it now.
thanks,Jeff

Last edited by jeffscustompaint; 06/04/05 06:27 AM.
Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: JeffsCustomPaint] #15532
06/03/05 07:59 PM
06/03/05 07:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
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connecticut
pnypwr Offline
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i think what he meant was cut off the old one paste on the new one! I dont think it was a personal attack on your procedures! However I too wonder about the strength of panel bond will it hold up against the torque of a big block and stick in a race car?


"Are you gonna bark all day lil doggy? Or are you gonna bite?"


05 ram 2500 ctd
74 gremlin x 360
65 mustang 347
70 coronet R/T 440
03 Mach 1
Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: pnypwr] #15533
06/03/05 08:15 PM
06/03/05 08:15 PM

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Naw..Nothing personal Jeff.. But yeah I dont think Id use bonding ( Glue ) on high end muscle, just personal choice.

Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: JeffsCustomPaint] #15534
06/03/05 08:24 PM
06/03/05 08:24 PM
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Galloway,New Jersey near Atlan...
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JeffsCustomPaint Offline OP
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Ok,All you others.
The stuff is tuff as nails and ten times stronger.
I had to replace a quarter on a car that was
wrecked and it previously had one bonded on.
Lets say the metal ripped everywhere but where
the adhesive was.You can bond the metal
together and clamp it to 2 pulling posts and
it will tear the metal before the bonded area.
I know this for a fact we did it in the bodyshop
I used to work at to see.Back to the above
mentioned car I had a heck of a time getting off
the rest of the metal to bond a new one on.
You can put some plug welds on the rear at the
rear body panel joint or in door jamb,but
that is the only places you will ever need to.
They only recommend that due to they are CYAing
themselves for future lawsuits.Trust me this
stuff is very durable and is tuff.
Welding a partial quarter you will warp the
metal the length of it.Even the best welders
get warpage on sheetmetal.This method illiminates
any possibilty of that happening,resulting in
less bodywork required on the seam.
I never indorse products I don't have experience
with,and know how good they are.
I have been doing this method for about 8 years.
And yes Rich it will take Torque,remember a frame
machine has 5to 10,000 psi of pulling strength.
This product is for sheetmetal and none structure
areas.you can't bond a framerail,and you still
need to plug weld the floorpans to the framerails.
It is used for 1/4 and door skins or even metal
patch panels.It's not ment to replace all welding.

Have fun Bonding everyone,there is the procedure
now you can use it if you like.
Not like the product sells these detail instructions.

-Jeff

Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: JeffsCustomPaint] #15535
06/03/05 09:42 PM
06/03/05 09:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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USA
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max Offline
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thanks very much for the post i have been wondering about that stuff for the last couple of years.
the part i like is when the two metals are bonded the glue actually seals the seam which you couldn't do after welding a panel very well.

i had been thinking about covering the seams on the outside of the panel with a thin coat of Duraglass and then use regular bondo for the finish work on top of the Duraglass since Duraglass is very hard to sand.

am i on the right track from keeping the bonded seam from showing up in the future?

Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: max] #15536
06/03/05 10:00 PM
06/03/05 10:00 PM

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I'll take mine welded please.

1756141-cuda23.JPG (878 downloads)
Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure #15537
06/03/05 10:14 PM
06/03/05 10:14 PM
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Texas, Dallas
G_T Offline
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Same here. See pic for Clecko's in action. Don't buy them from Eastwood as they charge 6X the price. Find new ones cheap on the internet.

The bonding works very well - but I wouldn't use it on an entire quarter. It's way to difficult to line and hold everything in place on such a large/complex panel. I wouldn't hesitate to use it on small patch panels and such... Of couse, now that I have a mig and can do it why bother...

1756167-DSCN2957.JPG (675 downloads)

1970 Charger - V10, 6spd, Alterkation, Street Lynx 4 Link, Moser Dana 60, Wilwood 14" disks, Forgeline 18" Wheels (Rear:335's), ISIS Multiplexing Wiring http://www.v10mopar.com 2012 Charger SRT8
Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: chewy] #15538
06/03/05 10:26 PM
06/03/05 10:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Yorktown VA
motorheadjohn Offline
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Quote:

Does a bonded quarter reduce the value of your car?



I like that the bonded panel is sealed better than a flange-welded joint. BUT, nothing seems worse to me that looking inside the trunk and seeing ANY type of flange joint, welded or bonded, running around the whole quarter. It's terribly obvious. For a show car, explain to me how that would look "original"?

It's more time and work, and more skill, but a butt-welded joint is the only way I will go.


Chicks in the mirror are fatter than they appear
Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure #15539
06/03/05 10:39 PM
06/03/05 10:39 PM
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Galloway,New Jersey near Atlan...
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JeffsCustomPaint Offline OP
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Russ,
that is fine,but look how far you grinded metal.
was there any warpage?Plus you tack welded
the whole seam and it looks like there is gaps
between your welds.Mig welding burns off the
coating between the two metals,and that is
where the rust will start to form and work it's
way thru in time.It is impossible to get
anything in between the two metals to stop the
rust and protect it.Every welded patch I ever
replaced started rusting from the welded seam.

In my method the adhesive seals the two metals and provents warping from welding.
I used to do it that way but is less work bonding.
Welds take alot of time to grind down.
bonding there are no welds to grind.

G_T,
You can bond a whole 1/4 and align it.
you will need clamps and cleeko's to hold it
either way you do it.
Prefitting the panel is what makes it possible.
with cleeko's the holes are there to make sure
the panel goes back in the right place.
You have time to move the panel in place
till the adhesive dries. wasn't sure where else
to buy cleeko's.I use screw's, it will pull the panel together better sometimes.I did mention
using screws as an alternative.

To the rest who are negative about using this
method,Don't knock it till you try it.

Thanks,-Jeff

Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: JeffsCustomPaint] #15540
06/03/05 10:43 PM
06/03/05 10:43 PM
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Jeff-

Thank you very for documenting the proceedure for the bonding process.


Ed
EastCoast Land Yacht Assoc.
1967 Newport Conv: 440/4 speed
1969 GTX: 440/4 speed, TX9/TX9, A34, N96
1970 Super Bee: 383/4 speed F8/F8
1970 Super Bee: 383/4 speed, B5/B7
1970 Coronet RT: 440/4 speed, A34, N96
1970 Coronet RT: 440/auto, A36, N96
1970 Road Runner convertible: 383/4 speed TX9/D6XW
2001 Dodge 2500 HO CTD, 6 speed, 4x4 quad cab long bed
"The early bird may get the worm, but the 2nd mouse gets the cheese".
Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: JeffsCustomPaint] #15541
06/03/05 10:47 PM
06/03/05 10:47 PM
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I hear you Jeff, Panel bonding is the only way to go. If people only realized how much cleaner the job is using this stuff, not to mention corrosion issues. I use the 3m Duramix product, and I am pretty sure they recommend doing a few plug welds in your tail lamp pocket area as well as sleeving and welding your sail panel areas on a typical quarter replacement. This procedure just plain works....

Re: Quarter Panel Bonding Procedure [Re: Mr440GSS] #15542
06/03/05 10:58 PM
06/03/05 10:58 PM
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JeffsCustomPaint Offline OP
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Galloway,New Jersey near Atlan...
Thanks,
well the plug welding is for CYA purposes
maybe i'll edit the procedure and add that in.
They say to do that in case a vehicle hits the rear and tries to tear the panel off.
We tested the stuff,tack welding vs. bonding
The tack welds broke when pulling apart.
bonded metal ripped off at the clamp holding the
metal not the bonded seam.
BTW,the factory seam on full quarters can be bonded if you want.like I said 3M is covering
thier butts.
If you can bond the rest you can bond that too.
No one has to use this.I was requested by many other members to post the procedure and thats what I did.
Yes it is alot easier once you have done it.

Last edited by jeffscustompaint; 06/03/05 11:05 PM.
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