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Re: Diesel Drag Racers?
[Re: Dragula]
#1533982
11/17/13 06:09 AM
11/17/13 06:09 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
Polarapete
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
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I realized very early that I was never going to be able to speed shift my 2002 Cummins 6 speed. I did one of the BD short shift kits to no avail. The problem is, of course, the manual truck transmissions internals that are designed to go 200,000+ miles have to be so strong and heavy to stand up to the brutal abuse of a clutch in a heavy vehicle with huge torque output, that they simply cannot change gears quickly. My 2002 QuadCab 2wd weighed nearly 7,500# empty. The only transmission that could survive would be a race prepped automatic that has the cushion of a torque converter. If you could cut the weight of the vehicle down to 2,000# you could probably have a car 4 speed (like a Chrysler) handle the job, but the big diesel engines themselves weigh well over 1,000#, so how can you build a complete light weight package around that?
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction
1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver.
2008 Honda Element
2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
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Re: Diesel Drag Racers?
[Re: Dragula]
#1533983
11/17/13 08:25 AM
11/17/13 08:25 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,951
Greenville, PA
redraptor
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,951
Greenville, PA
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Quote:
Are these drag race vehicles? Was thinking more like a Lenco/Bruno or somthing....
From what I've read and saw would agree with polarapete. $5-6k upgrade and you're good to go. I swear they're shifted to OD by 100ft. 
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Re: Diesel Drag Racers?
[Re: tims69belvedere]
#1533987
11/17/13 08:52 PM
11/17/13 08:52 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Quote:
Some are full race, some are drivers. Plenty of options. We sometimes do a full manual. We have one guy putting the 1400 hp motor in a tube chassis fiberglass 30's willys. Insane! We are going too either make his 48 full manual or start over with a 47re and make it full manual with out fat input shaft, and the intermediate, and output shaft. 
Full manual, how many gears? Which is better and why? Aren't they basically a 727? With the limited RPM of a diesel, don't you need more gears?
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Re: Diesel Drag Racers?
[Re: Dragula]
#1533989
11/18/13 07:53 PM
11/18/13 07:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,951
Greenville, PA
redraptor
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,951
Greenville, PA
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Quote:
Well I have a small pro street step side that will fit a diesel...With a 360 and a heavy A500 it weighs only 3250lbs, was curious what trans would allow it to run 10s consistantly...
I thought you got rid of that truck? Yes? I would be concerned about the frame/suspension combo to handle the torque AND be consistent. I would contact CumminsExpress and ask him what he had. I seen him at Norwalk 6 years ago and he was down around that time. 
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Re: Diesel Drag Racers?
[Re: Dragula]
#1533991
11/19/13 09:31 PM
11/19/13 09:31 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,951
Greenville, PA
redraptor
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,951
Greenville, PA
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Quote:
Wouldn't a full manual 727 just work then?
I suppose if you can adapt a bell to fit I'm sure it would. It would for sure be WAY different shifting so quick compared to gas but you're already familiar with diesels.
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Re: Diesel Drag Racers?
[Re: redraptor]
#1533992
11/20/13 08:43 AM
11/20/13 08:43 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Quote:
Quote:
Wouldn't a full manual 727 just work then?
I suppose if you can adapt a bell to fit I'm sure it would. It would for sure be WAY different shifting so quick compared to gas but you're already familiar with diesels.
I know from owning a bunch of them now that they really live in the lower RPM range...The milder the gear, the more they pull...Not sure I like the auto behind the diesel, at least not for towing, but for racing, its really the only way to spool a turbo motor as they need some load. Just curious about what the 9-10 second guys run in a race preped vehicle, not a daily driver type...Worse comes to worse a 727 with a GV unit and use it as a 4th gear.
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Re: Diesel Drag Racers?
[Re: Dragula]
#1533993
11/20/13 09:04 AM
11/20/13 09:04 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,622
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Wouldn't a full manual 727 just work then?
I suppose if you can adapt a bell to fit I'm sure it would. It would for sure be WAY different shifting so quick compared to gas but you're already familiar with diesels.
I know from owning a bunch of them now that they really live in the lower RPM range...The milder the gear, the more they pull...Not sure I like the auto behind the diesel, at least not for towing, but for racing, its really the only way to spool a turbo motor as they need some load. Just curious about what the 9-10 second guys run in a race preped vehicle, not a daily driver type...Worse comes to worse a 727 with a GV unit and use it as a 4th gear.
The first gen trucks in 89/90 had the 3 speed 727 behind them so no need to adapt a bell housing, those cases are out there.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Diesel Drag Racers?
[Re: Dragula]
#1533994
11/20/13 07:29 PM
11/20/13 07:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 147
Kansas
cascius
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 147
Kansas
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Quote:
I really am not interested in anything with OD
Just curious why? There's a lot of sled pullers and drag racers that seem to abuse the 47RH/RE's, and 48RE's without many issues. If you Google the Cummins powered Lil' Red Express truck you'll see that it's running consistent mid 10's with a best of 10.38 and is using a 47RH.
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Re: Diesel Drag Racers?
[Re: cascius]
#1533995
11/20/13 10:16 PM
11/20/13 10:16 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Quote:
Quote:
I really am not interested in anything with OD
Just curious why? There's a lot of sled pullers and drag racers that seem to abuse the 47RH/RE's, and 48RE's without many issues. If you Google the Cummins powered Lil' Red Express truck you'll see that it's running consistent mid 10's with a best of 10.38 and is using a 47RH.
Most of my experience is with the A500's, 904's and 727's...Not with a 47RH or anything like that. My A500 was substatially upgraded and has been flawless, but it would never handle a race prepped diesel. The factory OD is a weak link and pulls a lot of HP away from the combo due to the way its still spun even when disengaged. The guys at SMR got nervous when I wanted to put my +500hp 408/W2 in front of it. I would have had to change out the front lockup pump and convertor due to the hollow input shaft to make it live at 500hp. A big diesel makes me even more worried when I watch y-tube and see how hard they launch, just curious what everyone runs.
727's have gone as fast as 7 seconds and GV units are rated to 1200hp and I like the flow in the 727 valve bodies they make these days...Knowing I would need a trans brake valve body to spool it, I would go 727 then...Can't seem to sell it, just kinda throwing some ideas around.
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Re: Diesel Drag Racers?
[Re: cascius]
#1533997
11/21/13 09:44 AM
11/21/13 09:44 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,383
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Quote:
I don't have a lot of experience in drag racing or with the gasser transmissions, but I've spent a few years with the diesel transmissions. I guess my question is "Why try to reinvent the wheel?". I would think you'd spend more money trying to make a 727 with a GV strong enough to hold up than you would building a 47RH. That diesel, that's making 1500+ ft. lbs of torque doesn't care that the overdrive spins all the time.
What stall convertor do you run with one of these in a race application? And does a 47R have a Trans brake full manual valve body available? All the pro cars stage using a TB and the bump box...
I am just trying to learn a little...I have a fully prepped 727 sitting here right now. Obviously I would call one of the big names and take with one of them on handling big torque, but it seems the diesel guys are in a minority and not much info is available.
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Re: Diesel Drag Racers?
[Re: Dragula]
#1533998
11/21/13 08:08 PM
11/21/13 08:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,951
Greenville, PA
redraptor
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,951
Greenville, PA
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Quote:
but it seems the diesel guys are in a minority and not much info is available.
I disagree. You can get the info but not on this site. I agree with casius, why reinvent the wheel? I know you got a ton of money invested in what you have but, you will spend as much building a trans to handle that power as it would be to build a 500 HP 408. You are thinking of dipping into a class of expensive reliability and expensive repair compared to what you had.
On a positive note, it is a blast to watch!
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