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Pinion Nut Backed Off
#1529833
11/07/13 05:33 PM
11/07/13 05:33 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
GTX MATT
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
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I have a 3rd member with a pinion nut that backed off. I bought a new yoke and pinion nut. I've heard that once these back off they will want to keep backing off? Anyone have experience with this? I'm going to reinstall with locktight and swedge the nut, but I just wanted to get some opinions. I'd like to avoid this backing off and locking up my tires. 
Last edited by GTX MATT; 11/07/13 05:33 PM.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#1529836
11/07/13 06:37 PM
11/07/13 06:37 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
GTX MATT
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
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Quote:
I bet its a 489 right? The crush sleeve has lost its tension. You need to replace the sleave--preferabley with a solid spacer.
Yes 489. Is this what I want?? I need to order ASAP to get it for this weekend, here goes 25 bucks on shipping next day. Any disadvantage to the spacer vs the sleeve?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rat-4103/overview/
Last edited by GTX MATT; 11/07/13 06:50 PM.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off
[Re: dOrk !]
#1529840
11/07/13 09:29 PM
11/07/13 09:29 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
I had that happen to me in Florida some years back during the winter series events ... just tightened her back up .... no problemO !
 Dude, are you serious or just trying to get him killed  Once the crush sleeve has collapse enough to allow the pinion nut to back off that sleeve is ruined  OP, the 489 3rd members use the crush sleeves to set the pinion bearing preload, not to set the pinion depth  You should pull the third member out so you can properly check it when done, wether(SP?) you use a new crush sleeve or a new spacer, you need to make sure that the pinion depth and the pinion bearing preloads are both set up properly   One easy way to tell on a posi unit if it was ever in a 489 third member that was raced with decent power and traction is to look for the pinion teeth marks on the posi carrier to see if the crush sleeve collapse allowing the pinion gear to rotate back into the posi unit when backing up, if they(pinion gear) do back out they usually will lock up right away That is the main reason I recommend to drag racers to not use them(489 third members) with stock type crush sleeves
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1529842
11/07/13 11:56 PM
11/07/13 11:56 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
Polarapete
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
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Cab, I am sure you are right about the crush sleeve. I raced an 8 3/4 for a short time until I was traded an OEM Dana 60 for a B-body by the yard owner. Out came the 8 3/4 and in went the Dana and I have never raced anything else and they all had solid spacers. When I worked at Eastside Auto Salvage, we took in a W100 that had flipped when the pinion nut loosened and the 9 1/4 rear locked up. I have seen the "Gorilla Nut" replacement that also fits the Dana 60s. Very impressive for a nut!
Last edited by Polarapete; 11/08/13 01:01 AM.
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction
1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver.
2008 Honda Element
2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
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Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1529843
11/08/13 12:26 AM
11/08/13 12:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
I bet its a 489 right? The crush sleeve has lost its tension. You need to replace the sleave--preferabley with a solid spacer.
Yes 489. Is this what I want?? I need to order ASAP to get it for this weekend, here goes 25 bucks on shipping next day. Any disadvantage to the spacer vs the sleeve?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rat-4103/overview/
Matt that is what you want , I prefer the Richmond piece over ratech because of spacer size and shim supplied. anway you do know that the pinion has to come out to change the the crush sleeve out , right ?
If you need it to run the car this weekend get the kit , pull the outer pinion bearing and drop in a shim, or 2, and reset rotating torque , redloctite , staking not required. Then over the winter swap out that POS crush sleeve and if it has a CONE TYPE get that POS out of there too .
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Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off
[Re: Polarapete]
#1529844
11/08/13 01:26 AM
11/08/13 01:26 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOrk !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Cab, I am sure you are right about the crush sleeve. I raced an 8 3/4 for a short time until I was traded an OEM Dana 60 for a B-body by the yard owner. Out came the 8 3/4 and in went the Dana and I have never raced anything else and they all had solid spacers. When I worked at Eastside Auto Salvage, we took in a W100 that had flipped when the pinion nut loosened and the 9 1/4 rear locked up. I have seen the "Gorilla Nut" replacement that also fits the Dana 60s. Very impressive for a nut!
Cab ? .... You mean the old Tart ? ........not on this !! I cranked that pinion nut down with a big breaker bar in the Orlando Speed World pits ... put another 1500 miles or so in it then back to Meeeeechigan. It was not as quiet ad before but other than that no problemO.
Me thimks maybe the Cabster has been drinking that swamp-water !
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Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off
[Re: dOrk !]
#1529845
11/08/13 01:39 AM
11/08/13 01:39 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
Polarapete
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
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All that proves is that Mopars can survive incredible abuse...I have met Cab and I have not met you...Cab wins in my book. Let the flaming begin and by the way aren't you up past your bed time??
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction
1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver.
2008 Honda Element
2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
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Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off
[Re: JohnRR]
#1529848
11/08/13 03:45 AM
11/08/13 03:45 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
GTX MATT
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I bet its a 489 right? The crush sleeve has lost its tension. You need to replace the sleave--preferabley with a solid spacer.
Yes 489. Is this what I want?? I need to order ASAP to get it for this weekend, here goes 25 bucks on shipping next day. Any disadvantage to the spacer vs the sleeve?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rat-4103/overview/
Matt that is what you want , I prefer the Richmond piece over ratech because of spacer size and shim supplied. anway you do know that the pinion has to come out to change the the crush sleeve out , right ?
If you need it to run the car this weekend get the kit , pull the outer pinion bearing and drop in a shim, or 2, and reset rotating torque , redloctite , staking not required. Then over the winter swap out that POS crush sleeve and if it has a CONE TYPE get that POS out of there too .
I found the richmond one after i ordered of course and thought to myself Id probably rather get that since I know the brand but didnt want to mess anything up by canceling the order. I ordered the crush sleeve too in case Im missing anything.
The third member is out of the car with the caps off. What is entailed with setting the pinion load with the spacer? I would really like to have this in this weekend if I can.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1529851
11/08/13 08:36 AM
11/08/13 08:36 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,041
michigan woods
imfixinmopars426
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,041
michigan woods
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Quote:
You need a selection of various thickness pinion shims that will fit in between thw front pinion bearing and the new pinion crush sleeve replacement spacer. On used bearings I would shoot for between 12 to 18 INCH lbs rotational torque (test it both ways )with the pinion yoke and pinion gear pointed straight up. Make sure there is no dirt or debris in the bearings or races I use a small amount of the gear oil I'm going to run in that third members as a lube, it doesn't need to be drowned in lube, a light coating will do for set up purposes Once you get the pinion bearing preload set reassemble the carrier and set both the carrier bearing preload and the back lash(make sure and check the backlash in 3 or 4 places around the ring gear to make sure that it is on straight and not cocked sideways on the posi unit, it shouldn't vary more than .0015 max Now get to work
 :iagree...never just "crank down the nut on any crush sleeve type rear!..think about it..the crush sleeve has been "crushed pass its original setting,and now your crushing it even more? improper bearing preload.put the solid sleeve in all 489's,and it will set up like a dana rear,and not move,unless your using a used,and un-loctited nut.always use a new locking nut if you can,and like mentioned above..red Loctite should be added too!!
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Re: Pinion Nut Backed Off
[Re: Polarapete]
#1529852
11/08/13 12:27 PM
11/08/13 12:27 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOrk !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Sorry to disappoint you...I have better things to do than to get into a flame war. I don't have to impress anyone but me 
No need for a  ..... I am just telling you what happened to me.
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.... So I would think it is waaaay past that geezers sack time 
