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Re: F or M body with big block? [Re: Supercuda] #1517893
10/17/13 10:30 PM
10/17/13 10:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406
Michigan
MarkZ Offline
Worthy
MarkZ  Offline
Worthy

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406
Michigan
Quote:

Quote:


So...I like a car that handles like it's on 'rails'...LOL...and a stock T-bar isn't going to get you moving in that direction!




An M body isn't going to get you there either.




Why not? You're talking about a platform that weighs similar to that of a B body and has almost the exact same offerings available to it in aftermarket suspension parts. There isn't a part you can't replace now. FF offers big T-bars, sway bars, tubular UCA, etc, etc. Hell, you can even get an Alter-K that will bolt under these things.


1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
Re: F or M body with big block? [Re: 440PURSUIT] #1517894
10/17/13 10:52 PM
10/17/13 10:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,406
Michigan
MarkZ Offline
Worthy
MarkZ  Offline
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Posts: 4,406
Michigan
Quote:

I have a dealer demo kind of loaded 59k 80 Dippy coupe i intend to put a magnum headed early 318 w A500. im wondering what my best rear option is. eliminate iso-ride?




Find a fleet model (cop car) and grab the 8.25" rear axle. You can nab the rear sway bar while you are there too. The axles came in two ratios: 2.24 and 2.94. I would stay away from the numerical lower of the two since you need to change the carrier if you want to higher.

Depending on if you want to ditch the ISO setup will determine how the sway bar will attach. The factory method has the end-links mounting to the shock plates. If you replace the plates with B body ones you'll need adapters from Firm Feel.

I ran with the ISO setup for a number of years and finally ditched it a couple seasons ago. It made a pretty noticeable difference with brand new five leaf springs and Edelbrock IAS shocks. I would certainly do it again.


1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
Re: F or M body with big block? [Re: Supercuda] #1517895
10/17/13 11:46 PM
10/17/13 11:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,756
Windsor, ON, Canada
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Diplomat360 Offline
top fuel
Diplomat360  Offline
top fuel
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,756
Windsor, ON, Canada
Quote:

Quote:


So...I like a car that handles like it's on 'rails'...LOL...and a stock T-bar isn't going to get you moving in that direction!




An M body isn't going to get you there either.




Granted, it would take some good $$$ to make and M-body handle like a modern car...but as Mark pointed out...it's no different for M-body or B-body.

If you like good road manners it's a worthy goal to have. Consider the changes you make to the car, match the parts up correctly and enjoy the results!

Re: F or M body with big block? [Re: Diplomat360] #1517896
10/18/13 12:18 AM
10/18/13 12:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,388
Pikes Peak Country
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TC@HP2 Offline
master
TC@HP2  Offline
master
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,388
Pikes Peak Country
Quote:

I suppose a follow-up question could be: how well will it handle with the stock T-bars and 440 in there?






It'll handle like a big block A body. They are spendy, but Firm Feel does offer bigger t-bars for the FJM cars.

Re: F or M body with big block? [Re: Diplomat360] #1517897
10/18/13 09:39 AM
10/18/13 09:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Commando1 Offline
master
Commando1  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Quote:

Why not stroker small block? lol...



Because that is just what it is. A small block.
back atcha...

Re: F or M body with big block? [Re: Commando1] #1517898
10/18/13 01:42 PM
10/18/13 01:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,543
chicagoland,usa
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buildanother Offline
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,543
chicagoland,usa
Little off topic, but any input on the header fitment on these "B" engine cars?

Re: F or M body with big block? [Re: buildanother] #1517899
10/19/13 05:58 PM
10/19/13 05:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
racealittle Offline
pro stock
racealittle  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
Quote:

Little off topic, but any input on the header fitment on these "B" engine cars?




TTI do a fine job with a big block. Very easy Install. The header can easily fall to the ground during installation if you lose your grip on the passenger side. The driver side needs to be jacked up to just about fall into place..


Too many cars, too many parts, too little coin, too little space to work in, too little time left to make it all happen! Update: down to one ride, still too many parts, a little more jingle in the pocket, gaining space, and it's going to happen this year!
Re: F or M body with big block? [Re: racealittle] #1517900
10/20/13 01:11 AM
10/20/13 01:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 23
Tucson,AZ
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Remow2112 Offline
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Posts: 23
Tucson,AZ
Been running one for years. Prefer the 383 / 400 B over the RB. If you have an AC car with the bulge on the passenger side firewall it is real tight with a RB block.

This is my write up and parts for a BB Fbody install using stock motor mounts. I have since switched to Schumacher conversion which works great too.

Here is the deal. I did this for a mostly drag race car.
1. I have manual steering (Don't know if PS will clear.)
2. Used factory late model BB spool motor mounts.
3. The tranny mount (not the cross member) needs a little modifications.
4. Hedman Hedders 78030 work great in a Volare.
5. I put in a cheap 26" aluminum radiator with the upper and lower ports matching a BB.
6. Milodon 30931 oil pan
7. I am using manual brakes. You can stick with PB but you will need to find a different power booster that will clear the valve cover. An A-body one might work.

Details:
Using the stock motor mounts will put the engine about a 1/2 further forward then using the Schumacher conversion mounts and a little taller. What I did was got a set of beat BB motor mounts and drilled some 1/4" holes through the rubber on the engine side of each mount. (They sit just a little wide and you need some extra give. I also trimmed the extra rubber and metal off the front and back of the motor mounts making them flush to the spool insert front and back. If you don't do that when you get it in the K frame mounts it tweaks the engine so it sits crooked in the engine bay. You will need to buy a bunch of flat washer and cut slots out of the bottom. When you trim the spool ends it leaves a gap on the K-frame mount and you have to fill the gap before you tighten down or you will never get them tight. I did that with cheap washers.

The only mod I did on my K frame was on the passenger side at the front of the motor mount. There is a long thin v fin towards the front of the car. I took a grinder and cut it off because the engine block hits it.


The tranny mount has 2 slots. You need to cut them open on the end that goes to the front of the car. You will then be able to have enough adjustment to get it connected to the 727 tranny. If you weld you can extend the slots.

I used the headers listed above. There are 2 styles of BB headers (that I have seen) this version will not work, Hooker Headers 5209HKR. It has the 5 tube cross over and the 7 sticks out. The 7 will not clearing the steering.

You cannot use a small starter or modern starter. It will hit the header tube. They sell expensive indexable style starters that will work. I just bought a old style 440 starter (It has a longer motor and a little more torque) For those that will ask. I did try banging some clearance in a headers tube to fit the small style starter. I got the tube to half the original diameter and gave up. Not worth it to loose that much flow in 1 tube. I have not had an issue with heat saturation yet.

For a drive shaft I went and found one out of a 70 station wagon and had it shortened. I would not recommend using the small diameter drive shaft. I have a mild 400 and it feels radically different launch then my 375hp 360.

I also chose to cut part of the fender well out on the passenger side to make it easier to get to the #6 spark plug. All the rest are easy. If you don't want to go that route you can drill a 1.5" hole in front of the #6 and get to it that way. The plug wire will still be a pain.

Oil pans: I started with a 699 (this is a number stamped in to the bottom of the pan ... Follow this link for an oil pan breakdown: http://www.440source.com/oilpans.htm) But the one I had did not have any baffles. After talking to a friend that has been racing BB Mopar for 20 years I switched to the Milodon listed above. He said that with a good launch and no baffles ( i am not exactly clear on what he considers a good launch His cars runs in the mid 10's.) you will starve the bottom bearings. He then warned me that it could still be done with a baffled stock oil pan so I chickened out and ponied up some cash. Back to oil pan options.

Mopar pans 699, 971, and 187 should fit fine. 971 is best just due to the extra room from the front of the pan to where the sump starts and you can still buy one from Mopar 5007807.
These are all 5 quart pans and if you are just street driving. I would just find a used stock pan and go for it. Most generic aftermarket oil pans are elongated 187 pans. Using a 187 or 699 might require a little trimming on the lip on the back of the k frame where the sump sits.

Do not try to put the engine and tranny in together. The engine hits the firewall and prevents the oil pans from clearing the k frame. I tried!

I also chained down the driver side of the engine since I beat up on the motor mounts quite a bit.

There is no reason that this could not be done with a 440 but the extra 1/2" a side is going to make the passenger side even tighter fit.

If you have your act together there is not reason that you couldn't put a BB in your F or a normal weekend. But they will be long days.

Dan...

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