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Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: RapidRobert] #1513401
10/07/13 05:14 PM
10/07/13 05:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
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WV
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JohnH Offline
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Also remember there is two different water pump housing that pump on the left side and right side for the outlet. not sure but it may also make a difference what pump you have.. it does make a difference which way those propellers turn..

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: JohnH] #1513402
10/07/13 05:20 PM
10/07/13 05:20 PM
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JohnH Offline
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Also I see you have a 69 440 pump, don't know the other one's year make, I bought one that was round like the one you have and couldn't get the belts to line up until I noticed the difference in the thickness of the metal where the fan belts go in,,, it threw me off and had to put the correct one on...

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: JohnH] #1513403
10/07/13 05:24 PM
10/07/13 05:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,336
Massachusetts, USA
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Facts: Both pumps/impellers turn clockwise -
The pump on the right definitely was in the engine when overheating.
The pump on the left is a NON ac and the impellers are opposite the pump on the right. Does that matter?
I ordered an AC pump (thinking it made no diff) that is
installed now and still overheated. So I took the thermostat
out and now runs cool 170 deg.

Do ya think installing the left pump non ac will make any difference?

7879343-DSC_0688.JPG (157 downloads)

70 Road Runner 528 HEMI 4sp FY1 70 Road Runner 440+6 V-Code AG 4spd EV2 69 R/T 4 Spd Dana 3:54 AG Vert B5 69 R/T 4 Spd Dana 3:54 AG X9 V1X V8R-WORKING 69 R/T Auto/Console 8.75 SG Vert R/T B3 08 Challenger 1st Edition Hemi Orange 69 Super Bee 4 Spd 8.75 SG AG F8
Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: MASSMOPAR] #1513404
10/07/13 05:36 PM
10/07/13 05:36 PM
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charge70 Offline
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The size of the pulleys is different. A/C pulley is smaller than the non a/c.If you use the wrong combo it will drive the pump at the wrong speed and cause cooling prolems or cavitate the pump. John.


1970 Dodge Charger R/T S.E. 1969 Dodge Dart GTS 440 M-Code 1970 Dodge Charger 500 383/4-speed w/A.C.
Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: charge70] #1513405
10/07/13 05:42 PM
10/07/13 05:42 PM
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Massachusetts, USA
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So if I'm running an A/C water pump with all else being non ac
will that cause overheating condition.
Thanks


70 Road Runner 528 HEMI 4sp FY1 70 Road Runner 440+6 V-Code AG 4spd EV2 69 R/T 4 Spd Dana 3:54 AG Vert B5 69 R/T 4 Spd Dana 3:54 AG X9 V1X V8R-WORKING 69 R/T Auto/Console 8.75 SG Vert R/T B3 08 Challenger 1st Edition Hemi Orange 69 Super Bee 4 Spd 8.75 SG AG F8
Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: MASSMOPAR] #1513406
10/07/13 07:13 PM
10/07/13 07:13 PM
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Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
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Actually,the original a/C pump is 6 blade ! When you order an A/C pump you get one size fits all 8 blade.

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: JohnH] #1513407
10/07/13 07:26 PM
10/07/13 07:26 PM
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Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:

Also remember there is two different water pump housing that pump on the left side and right side for the outlet. not sure but it may also make a difference what pump you have.. it does make a difference which way those propellers turn..




Propellers, yes. Impellers in those pumps(which are very crude) will work the same no matter which way they are turned. There not curved. there fore there not backwards no matter which way they get turned.

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: Challenger 1] #1513408
10/07/13 07:42 PM
10/07/13 07:42 PM
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Someplace you aren't
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SomeCarGuy Offline
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Have you tested the stat in a pot of boiling water? It sounds like you just got a bum stat. You might also look for a high flow stat. Those have bigger open areas for more flow. Robershaw used to make some, havent seen them for sale in a long time though.


I want my fair share
Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: MASSMOPAR] #1513409
10/07/13 07:49 PM
10/07/13 07:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
feets Offline
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Quote:

Facts: Both pumps/impellers turn clockwise -




Both impellers are faced the same. Neither is backwards. The blades themselves are curved the same way.

Quote:

Do ya think installing the left pump non ac will make any difference?





No. You are moving water.

I'd stick the first pump back on and follow the advice I posted on the other thread. You could have saved the time and trouble of pulling the pump.

Get an IR temp gun. Start looking for odd heat patterns.

Read that post I linked earlier.
There are no secrets in overheating issues. You simply look for the changes in temperature. You can probably diagnose that thing in less than 10 minutes with a temp gun.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: feets] #1513410
10/07/13 07:58 PM
10/07/13 07:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
feets Offline
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I'll help out by posting the info again:

Number one, beyond any question, is to get a temp gun. Period. End of sentence.


Harbor Freight has them on sale for $37.
http://www.harborfreight.com/infrared-thermometer-with-laser-targeting-non-contact-69465.html

Those things work great. Sure, they may be off a degree or two but who cares? You're looking for big swings in temperature and they will get the job done.

If you don't have one you obviously don't want to know why your car is overheating. Get one. Now. We'll wait for you. This thread should still be around when you get back from the store.
Don't have overheating problems? Go get one anyway.

If you have real temperatures of different parts of the cooling system it's really easy to track down any problems. Without those temps you're just guessing.

Use the temp gun to check the radiator temperatures. if your cooling system is working properly you will have about a 30 degree difference between the radiator inlet and outlet. If that isn't the case you have a problem up front.

Scan the radiator across the core. If there are cold spots you know the radiator is plugged and needs attention. Obviously, the radiator will be cooler where the fan is drawing air. If the fan clutch is slipping or the fan is too weak then you will not see a substantial drop in temperature in front of the fan.
Here's a BIG hint: A proper shroud will pull air from all parts of the radiator, not just the bit right in front of the fan. That's why shrouds are important.

You can use the temp gun on the temperature sending unit to confirm the gauge reading.
It can also spot colder spots on the engine if you have a misfire or dead hole. The temp will be cooler on that part of the exhaust manifold too.
You can shoot the cylinder heads to see if one side is cooler than the other. That would indicate problems inside the engine.
Trouble with the A/C? You can check air temperatures at the registers as well as line temperatures under the hood.
Don't have a candy thermometer? You can use the temp gun to monitor you cooking oil when frying hush puppies.

Back to trouble shooting...

If the temperature of the hoses is drastically lower than the temperature of the block and heads then you're not moving water. Check the lower hose to make sure it's not getting sucked closed when the engine is revved. Sometimes it's hard to see so you need to lay hands on it. Just don't get your arm caught in the belts or fan.

If the upper hose is drastically cooler than the thermostat housing and top of the water pump you know the thermostat isn't opening.
Engines without thermostats will sometimes move coolant too quickly. That doesn't allow the coolant to stay in the radiator long enough to lose temperature. You can spot that when the radiator temps drop smoothly across the radiator but don't change by more than 15 degrees or so.

If you want to know why something doesn't work you need to find out what part isn't working. When that's a cooling system you must know the temperatures you're dealing with. Without that basic info it's all guesswork.

Have a problem? Want help?
1) Get a temp gun.
2) Get numbers.
3) Get back with us.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: MASSMOPAR] #1513411
10/07/13 09:01 PM
10/07/13 09:01 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 172
IL,USA
bdusted440 Offline
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Quote:

I got this rebuilt 440 hp .030 engine ---
Fires up runs great. BUT under normal
driving conditions she overheats - temp goes thru the roof.

Tried changing the water pump and the thermostat had no effect.

The radiator is hot on the bottom and cold at the top.

TOOK the thermostat completely out and temp stays at 170 degrees -
but I know that is not the correct solution.

What is going on?






you already answered your question.cold at top hot at bottom =radiator flow problem. have it flow checked and quit guessing. Oh and get a temp gun it helps speed the process.And the fact it runs 170 without the t-stat also points to the radiator.Also buy a service manual. It gives you step by step diag.


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1976 duster deluxe
1974 gold duster
1993 Dakota sport
2000 caravan
2002 Durango
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Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: bdusted440] #1513412
10/07/13 09:06 PM
10/07/13 09:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:

Quote:

I got this rebuilt 440 hp .030 engine ---
Fires up runs great. BUT under normal
driving conditions she overheats - temp goes thru the roof.

Tried changing the water pump and the thermostat had no effect.

The radiator is hot on the bottom and cold at the top.

TOOK the thermostat completely out and temp stays at 170 degrees -
but I know that is not the correct solution.

What is going on?






you already answered your question.cold at top hot at bottom =radiator flow problem. have it flow checked and quit guessing. Oh and get a temp gun it helps speed the process.And the fact it runs 170 without the t-stat also points to the radiator.Also buy a service manual. It gives you step by step diag.




He's got a brand new 26" radiator in it from Year One in it.

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: Challenger 1] #1513413
10/07/13 09:51 PM
10/07/13 09:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
feets Offline
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Quote:



He's got a brand new 26" radiator in it from Year One in it.




Goodyear makes perfectly round truck tires too.


Without getting REAL TEMPERATURE NUMBERS from different parts of his system he is wasting our time, his time, and his money.

This morning I suggested he read the post about getting real numbers. Apparently, he thought it best to go spend money on a new pump that isn't going to solve his problems.
If he spent that money on a tool like, I dunno, maybe a temp gun he would have his solution by now.

I don't mean to be nasty about it but staring at it and scratching his head isn't going to fix it. Lots of people are willing to help but we can't get started without knowing where the problem is.


The problem is temperature but he won't tell us what the temperatures are.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: MASSMOPAR] #1513414
10/07/13 10:08 PM
10/07/13 10:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 302
MG, Brazil
v8punch Offline
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Are you sure if engine was machined and assembled with correct clearance?
If it's tight, temperature goes up.

Carburetor is no lean? If it's lean, temperature goes up.

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: feets] #1513415
10/07/13 10:17 PM
10/07/13 10:17 PM
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Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:

Quote:



He's got a brand new 26" radiator in it from Year One in it.




Goodyear makes perfectly round truck tires too.


Without getting REAL TEMPERATURE NUMBERS from different parts of his system he is wasting our time, his time, and his money.

This morning I suggested he read the post about getting real numbers. Apparently, he thought it best to go spend money on a new pump that isn't going to solve his problems.
If he spent that money on a tool like, I dunno, maybe a temp gun he would have his solution by now.

I don't mean to be nasty about it but staring at it and scratching his head isn't going to fix it. Lots of people are willing to help but we can't get started without knowing where the problem is.


The problem is temperature but he won't tell us what the temperatures are.




Goodyear does??

Either way I think it's safe to say the radiator is good at this point and not restricted was my point.


Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: Challenger 1] #1513416
10/07/13 10:39 PM
10/07/13 10:39 PM
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Since it runs at 170, why not let the next guy deal with it? It is a flip afterall.


I want my fair share
Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: SomeCarGuy] #1513417
10/08/13 12:11 AM
10/08/13 12:11 AM
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Posts: 168
Loves Park, IL
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HotRodRailroader Offline
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Feets helped me through my over heating problem on my 1969 RR. The IR temp gun makes a night or day difference and have since used it on other things. WELL WORTH IT!!!! Mine was a radiator but ran hot even with no stat. but I took all the readings at different times on different days and checked each cyl. temp just to make sure. There is also a test kit to check for combustion gas in your cooling system, also a great thing to have around.

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: JohnH] #1513418
10/08/13 07:39 AM
10/08/13 07:39 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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If no stat SOLVES the overheating then k.i.s.s. you had the misfortune of having 2 bad stats in a row (the one that was in there went bad & the new one you bought). As said you might test a new one suspended in a pot of water & bring it to a boil (candy thermometers are cheap) & dont forget the temp gun . I push the stat open several times by hand to make sure it is free/not stuck before I check it on the stove. Holler how it turns out


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: RapidRobert] #1513419
10/08/13 07:54 AM
10/08/13 07:54 AM
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NY usa
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Question on a big block can you reverse the intake gasket and block off the coolant passage i have seen that happen on other makes??

Re: REBUILT 440 ENGINE overheats - HELP. [Re: feets] #1513420
10/08/13 08:18 AM
10/08/13 08:18 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,336
Massachusetts, USA
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I'm going shooting today...

thank you

7880039-DSC_0689.JPG (90 downloads)

70 Road Runner 528 HEMI 4sp FY1 70 Road Runner 440+6 V-Code AG 4spd EV2 69 R/T 4 Spd Dana 3:54 AG Vert B5 69 R/T 4 Spd Dana 3:54 AG X9 V1X V8R-WORKING 69 R/T Auto/Console 8.75 SG Vert R/T B3 08 Challenger 1st Edition Hemi Orange 69 Super Bee 4 Spd 8.75 SG AG F8
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