Re: 383 Cam/Dist. Timing Issues
[Re: kloyiod]
#1491787
08/29/13 05:53 PM
08/29/13 05:53 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
To both of you I fully agree. I know the vac pod should be in the 12-2 o'clock position which is were I started. When I get this back together I will look into making absolute sure that the rotor is pointing to the #1 tower. I just hope I get it this time ! It does make sense that you could stuff the drive gear anyway you want as long as all the others are in order. I'll keep ya updated as to what happens. All are welcome to continue this discussion in the meantime. Mr. P body, tell Sherman I say hi, LOL.
I will.... just happens that my driver goes by Sherman on here(well not really but his avitar is a pic of Sherman and Mr Peabody)...LOL.. good luck with your issue
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Re: 383 Cam/Dist. Timing Issues
[Re: kloyiod]
#1491788
08/29/13 06:28 PM
08/29/13 06:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,530 Nunya CA
CR8CRSHR
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,530
Nunya CA
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Time for me to jump in here. I have been helping out a lot with this build so I can offer some more into the discussion. The lifter busing point is understood but I don't think there will be an issue with the fire up of this motor over the first. As stated earlier, the first motor has approximately 10 hours of run time. And, it is running a Hughes Cam and Lifters as opposed to the other makes available. Once they are broken in Hughes has told me that on a swap such as this, there isn't an issue with firing it up in a normal fashion. It was recommended though to at least keep it at about 2200 on the rpms and to bump the accelerator a few times to insure lifter rotation. Break in oil is Brad Penn. It was merely a swap out of the necessary parts from motor #1 to motor #2 excluding the bottom end of motor #1. Now where the problem seems to lie is that in the first try, it backfired through the carb. We both checked and concurred that we had the motor it @ TDC but we were 180 out. So we adjusted for that and we had the same backfire through the carb. As stated above, the cam distributor gear drive upon inspection was not @ parallel to center line of the block as per the FSM and EBoogher's latest article in Mopar Action. BB's are parallel center and SB's are from 8-2 o'clock with the rotor pointing towards the first intake manifold bolt on the #1 piston side. Anyway...the key way for the distributor shaft will only point to either the 4-10 position or the 2-8 one. Not at parallel center as is correct for the BB. The timing sprockets are lined up dot to dot with the cam sprocket key way set @ 4R. Cam is ground @ 3A so there shouldn't be a really big deal there. Again dots are dot to dot. So the head scratching has been abundant here with this motor. On the old one everything lined up as it was supposed to but now in the motor we have the above described issue. From what most of you have been saying, if I understand you all correctly, is that even though we are not @ parallel center on this BB, we are OK as long as we have the motor correctly @ TDC and the #1 plug wire tower and the rotor pointing correctly towards #1. We then should be OK in the theory of it. As long as everything is lined up correctly in relation to #1 and we are @ TDC then it really doesn't matter where the distributor gear is placed or if it is off of parallel center line. Is this a correct understanding? I have been kind of analyzing this on my own and have been wondering if this is all that needs to be done to get this back up and running. Again in theory it should work fine. Hope this adds some more clarification to what we have been experiencing for you all to help us out. It is hard to explain in words without some visual referencing to help as well. This is not a fancy or hot rod build but rather a pretty tame one at that. Thanks in advance and I hope I was able to shed some more light on this issue. There is a ton of knowledge here as we all know...
Last edited by CR8CRSHR; 08/29/13 08:09 PM.
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Re: 383 Cam/Dist. Timing Issues
[Re: CR8CRSHR]
#1491790
08/29/13 08:35 PM
08/29/13 08:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Time for me to jump in here. I have been helping out a lot with this build so I can offer some more into the discussion. The lifter busing point is understood but I don't think there will be an issue with the fire up of this motor over the first. As stated earlier, the first motor has approximately 10 hours of run time. And, it is running a Hughes Cam and Lifters as opposed to the other makes available. Once they are broken in Hughes has told me that on a swap such as this, there isn't an issue with firing it up in a normal fashion. It was recommended though to at least keep it at about 2200 on the rpms and to bump the accelerator a few times to insure lifter rotation. Break in oil is Brad Penn. It was merely a swap out of the necessary parts from motor #1 to motor #2 excluding the bottom end of motor #1.
Now where the problem seems to lie is that in the first try, it backfired through the carb. We both checked and concurred that we had the motor it @ TDC but we were 180 out. So we adjusted for that and we had the same backfire through the carb. As stated above, the cam distributor gear drive upon inspection was not @ parallel to center line of the block as per the FSM and EBoogher's latest article in Mopar Action. BB's are parallel center and SB's are from 8-2 o'clock with the rotor pointing towards the first intake manifold bolt on the #1 piston side. Anyway...the key way for the distributor shaft will only point to either the 4-10 position or the 2-8 one. Not at parallel center as is correct for the BB. The timing sprockets are lined up dot to dot with the cam sprocket key way set @ 4R. Cam is ground @ 3A so there shouldn't be a really big deal there. Again dots are dot to dot. So the head scratching has been abundant here with this motor. On the old one everything lined up as it was supposed to but now in the motor we have the above described issue.
From what most of you have been saying, if I understand you all correctly, is that even though we are not @ parallel center on this BB, we are OK as long as we have the motor correctly @ TDC and the #1 plug wire tower and the rotor pointing correctly towards #1. We then should be OK in the theory of it. As long as everything is lined up correctly in relation to #1 and we are @ TDC then it really doesn't matter where the distributor gear is placed or if it is off of parallel center line. Is this a correct understanding? I have been kind of analyzing this on my own and have been wondering if this is all that needs to be done to get this back up and running. Again in theory it should work fine.
Hope this adds some more clarification to what we have been experiencing for you all to help us out. It is hard to explain in words without some visual referencing to help as well. This is not a fancy or hot rod build but rather a pretty tame one at that. Thanks in advance and I hope I was able to shed some more light on this issue. There is a ton of knowledge here as we all know...
As of now you are HOPING that the timing gears are correct... sounds like they are not... the dot to dot isnt a good way to install a cam... I've seem way too many be off... I had one that was 27* off based on the dots... I was thinking you guys degreed it but now I know you played the dots.... I will go back to my first idea (based on your info AND that your dist doesnt line up like stock)... I think your cam is off
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Re: 383 Cam/Dist. Timing Issues
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1491791
08/29/13 09:00 PM
08/29/13 09:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,530 Nunya CA
CR8CRSHR
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,530
Nunya CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Time for me to jump in here. I have been helping out a lot with this build so I can offer some more into the discussion. The lifter busing point is understood but I don't think there will be an issue with the fire up of this motor over the first. As stated earlier, the first motor has approximately 10 hours of run time. And, it is running a Hughes Cam and Lifters as opposed to the other makes available. Once they are broken in Hughes has told me that on a swap such as this, there isn't an issue with firing it up in a normal fashion. It was recommended though to at least keep it at about 2200 on the rpms and to bump the accelerator a few times to insure lifter rotation. Break in oil is Brad Penn. It was merely a swap out of the necessary parts from motor #1 to motor #2 excluding the bottom end of motor #1.
Now where the problem seems to lie is that in the first try, it backfired through the carb. We both checked and concurred that we had the motor it @ TDC but we were 180 out. So we adjusted for that and we had the same backfire through the carb. As stated above, the cam distributor gear drive upon inspection was not @ parallel to center line of the block as per the FSM and EBoogher's latest article in Mopar Action. BB's are parallel center and SB's are from 8-2 o'clock with the rotor pointing towards the first intake manifold bolt on the #1 piston side. Anyway...the key way for the distributor shaft will only point to either the 4-10 position or the 2-8 one. Not at parallel center as is correct for the BB. The timing sprockets are lined up dot to dot with the cam sprocket key way set @ 4R. Cam is ground @ 3A so there shouldn't be a really big deal there. Again dots are dot to dot. So the head scratching has been abundant here with this motor. On the old one everything lined up as it was supposed to but now in the motor we have the above described issue.
From what most of you have been saying, if I understand you all correctly, is that even though we are not @ parallel center on this BB, we are OK as long as we have the motor correctly @ TDC and the #1 plug wire tower and the rotor pointing correctly towards #1. We then should be OK in the theory of it. As long as everything is lined up correctly in relation to #1 and we are @ TDC then it really doesn't matter where the distributor gear is placed or if it is off of parallel center line. Is this a correct understanding? I have been kind of analyzing this on my own and have been wondering if this is all that needs to be done to get this back up and running. Again in theory it should work fine.
Hope this adds some more clarification to what we have been experiencing for you all to help us out. It is hard to explain in words without some visual referencing to help as well. This is not a fancy or hot rod build but rather a pretty tame one at that. Thanks in advance and I hope I was able to shed some more light on this issue. There is a ton of knowledge here as we all know...
As of now you are HOPING that the timing gears are correct... sounds like they are not... the dot to dot isnt a good way to install a cam... I've seem way too many be off... I had one that was 27* off based on the dots... I was thinking you guys degreed it but now I know you played the dots.... I will go back to my first idea (based on your info AND that your dist doesnt line up like stock)... I think your cam is off
OK...Then how can the cam be off from one block to the next? Yes we did line it up on the 2nd motor dot to dot as it was degree'd on the first motor and all we are doing is moving components from one block to the next. So we matched "apples to apples" so to speak. I know logic is not really a player when it comes to MOPARS...MA defied all kinds of Logic...but we have really not changed any thing here. Just doesn't make any sense at all....
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Re: 383 Cam/Dist. Timing Issues
[Re: CR8CRSHR]
#1491793
08/30/13 12:41 PM
08/30/13 12:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282
A gulag near you.
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Quote:
From what most of you have been saying, if I understand you all correctly, is that even though we are not @ parallel center on this BB, we are OK as long as we have the motor correctly @ TDC and the #1 plug wire tower and the rotor pointing correctly towards #1. We then should be OK in the theory of it. As long as everything is lined up correctly in relation to #1 and we are @ TDC then it really doesn't matter where the distributor gear is placed or if it is off of parallel center line. Is this a correct understanding? I have been kind of analyzing this on my own and have been wondering if this is all that needs to be done to get this back up and running. Again in theory it should work fine.
Yes this is correct in your understanding .
I'll ask the dumb question , is it not dropping in parallel because you move it a tooth and the drive will not drop in so you go another tooth and it does drop in ? If this is the case it's because ofthe oil pump hex drive not lining up with the oil pump , if you have a priming rod you can move the oil pump a little so the drive drops in ...
The distributor not being in line with what the FSM says is not what is causing the engine to not start as long as the rotor is pointing at the number one tower and you have the wires in the correct order and firing rotation.
Have you checked for spark ? what ignition system ?
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Re: 383 Cam/Dist. Timing Issues
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1491794
08/30/13 01:08 PM
08/30/13 01:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 684 St. Charles, MO.
Slingshot383
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 684
St. Charles, MO.
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There is one more thing to consider when you can't get the rotor bug to line up correctly with the engine at TDC #1, and that is rotor phasing. Cars with crank triggers have to be very careful in this respect.
1994 Undercover Chassis 125" altered
stack injected big block, soon blown and injected
Member of The Torque and Recoil Club
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Re: 383 Cam/Dist. Timing Issues
[Re: Slingshot383]
#1491795
09/02/13 01:11 AM
09/02/13 01:11 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 198 Chester, VA
tobnHisglory
member
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member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 198
Chester, VA
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Any progress so far? One other thought. Is this a multi key way timing set? If so, maybe the crank key is in a different slot on the crank gear. You would still be dot to dot but your crank would be in a different position causing you to be off by several degrees on your cam timing. Good luck!
-Reggie tobnHisglory2000@aol.com Former Mopars: 73 Charger - 440/727, 68 D200 Camper Special 383/727, 67 Satellite, 71 Superbee, 73 RoadRunner,2009 Ram Quad Cab Hemi 4x4 Current Mopars: 2005 Ram Quad Cab Hemi 4x4, 73 Cuda FE5 318 manual
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Re: 383 Cam/Dist. Timing Issues
[Re: CR8CRSHR]
#1491797
09/02/13 03:19 PM
09/02/13 03:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 417 reynoldsburg,ohio
poppaj
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 417
reynoldsburg,ohio
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Are you sure that you haven't adjusted valves and they were not pumped up yet then when you started cranking the motor they pumped up and now you have valves hanging open?
AA/NSS 65'Coronet "Whompin Wedge" Pop & Son Performance 557" B-1 power John Holt Chassis
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