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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1470273
07/24/13 11:19 AM
07/24/13 11:19 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,467
Morristown Tn.
71birdJ68
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,467
Morristown Tn.
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Quote:
Yea I think at this point I am going to pull the tranny and verify that the flywheel is sitting staight on the crank and has no run out. If that all looks good I will have to take it to someone and get it on a scope and see what we can see. I would just feel better knowing it is not something like the flywheel before I take it to someone.
I have a really old Snap On scope made for points, don't think that will do me much good, heck I don't even know how to use it. 
Just so everyones on the same page, runout is for the bell housing not flywheel.
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#1470274
07/24/13 11:20 AM
07/24/13 11:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,135
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,135
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
Quote:
Yea I think at this point I am going to pull the tranny and verify that the flywheel is sitting staight on the crank and has no run out. If that all looks good I will have to take it to someone and get it on a scope and see what we can see. I would just feel better knowing it is not something like the flywheel before I take it to someone.
I have a really old Snap On scope made for points, don't think that will do me much good, heck I don't even know how to use it.
Just so everyones on the same page, runout is for the bell housing not flywheel.
what he said ...
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1470275
07/24/13 11:40 AM
07/24/13 11:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 167
maryland
74yellowduster
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 167
maryland
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Quote:
Vibration is thier with the clutch pushed in, it get worse with the clutch engauged and in neutral.
^^^ big hint right there ^^^
flywheel/pressure plate problem. could be a small burr or something between the flywheel & crank when it was bolted up.
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#1470276
07/24/13 01:08 PM
07/24/13 01:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
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Quote:
Quote:
Yea I think at this point I am going to pull the tranny and verify that the flywheel is sitting staight on the crank and has no run out. If that all looks good I will have to take it to someone and get it on a scope and see what we can see. I would just feel better knowing it is not something like the flywheel before I take it to someone.
I have a really old Snap On scope made for points, don't think that will do me much good, heck I don't even know how to use it.
Just so everyones on the same page, runout is for the bell housing not flywheel.
You can have run out on the flywheel if something would be between the crank surface and back of flyweel. Or if the flywheel hole would be slighly smaller then the end of the crank and not going on all the way. I don't know if runout is the correct term, but you know what I mean. That is what I am going to be looking for first, plan to start pulling it apart tonight.
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1470278
07/26/13 12:01 PM
07/26/13 12:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,135
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,135
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
Got it all apart last night and went to use my dial indicatior and it took a dump so I have to get a new one tonight. My clutch doesn't look good to me though, take a look here:
Bad Clutch ?
I don't think that has anything to do with your vibration.
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: JohnRR]
#1470279
07/26/13 12:06 PM
07/26/13 12:06 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
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Quote:
Quote:
Got it all apart last night and went to use my dial indicatior and it took a dump so I have to get a new one tonight. My clutch doesn't look good to me though, take a look here:
Bad Clutch ?
I don't think that has anything to do with your vibration.
No I don't either, that is why I put it in a different thread, was just surprised to see it. New dial indicator tonight so I can when the flywheel and bell housing.
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1470280
07/26/13 04:02 PM
07/26/13 04:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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Where did the flywheel come from again?
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1470281
07/26/13 04:07 PM
07/26/13 04:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,373
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,373
Bend,OR USA
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Use the dial indicator to check the run out on the bellhousing register and , if you can, use it to check the mounting surface of the bellhousing in relationship to the flywheel face also  . I can visualize what I want you to check but I'm not sure I can put that vision into words, here goes. I'm assuming your using a magnetic base for the dial indicator so put the base on the flywheel with the indictor sticking up through the input shaft hole in the bellhousing and put the stem of the indicator on the trans. mounting surface of the bell(face?), turn the motor over while watchig the indicator for up or down movement, it should be zero   Lots of gremlins out thier  They love messing with us racers and hot rodders   Good luck, let us know what you find
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1470282
07/26/13 04:30 PM
07/26/13 04:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
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Quote:
Use the dial indicator to check the run out on the bellhousing register and , if you can, use it to check the mounting surface of the bellhousing in relationship to the flywheel face also . I can visualize what I want you to check but I'm not sure I can put that vision into words, here goes. I'm assuming your using a magnetic base for the dial indicator so put the base on the flywheel with the indictor sticking up through the input shaft hole in the bellhousing and put the stem of the indicator on the trans. mounting surface of the bell(face?), turn the motor over while watchig the indicator for up or down movement, it should be zero Lots of gremlins out thier They love messing with us racers and hot rodders Good luck, let us know what you find
I am in the process of that now, would have been done last night but my dial indicator took a dump.
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1470283
07/26/13 05:46 PM
07/26/13 05:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
astjp2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
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I had to put a .006 shim between an original aluminum bell and the block to get mine within .002 = parallel of the flywheel. I wound up using Robmc offset dowels to dial in the concentricity, if you loosen the bolts once you have it dialed in, you will need to redo the whole measuring process. AMHIK....Tim
1941 Taylorcraft
1968 Charger
1994 Wrangler
1998 Wrangler
2008 Kia Rio
2017 Jetta
I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: astjp2]
#1470284
07/26/13 05:54 PM
07/26/13 05:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
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Quote:
I had to put a .006 shim between an original aluminum bell and the block to get mine within .002 = parallel of the flywheel. I wound up using Robmc offset dowels to dial in the concentricity, if you loosen the bolts once you have it dialed in, you will need to redo the whole measuring process. AMHIK....Tim
That is one part I never figured out. I have heard multiple times that if you lossen the bell housing you have to do it again. Which makes sence because the dowels can not perfecty align the bell housing just do to the dowel having to be smaller then the hole to get it on. But yet you have to take the bell back off to get the clutch on, so how do you center it again which the clutch on
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1470285
07/26/13 08:07 PM
07/26/13 08:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,135
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,135
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
Quote:
I had to put a .006 shim between an original aluminum bell and the block to get mine within .002 = parallel of the flywheel. I wound up using Robmc offset dowels to dial in the concentricity, if you loosen the bolts once you have it dialed in, you will need to redo the whole measuring process. AMHIK....Tim
That is one part I never figured out. I have heard multiple times that if you lossen the bell housing you have to do it again. Which makes sence because the dowels can not perfecty align the bell housing just do to the dowel having to be smaller then the hole to get it on. But yet you have to take the bell back off to get the clutch on, so how do you center it again which the clutch on
and you still haven't ... 
The original dowels are a slip fit so it will be close enough during a clutch change.
What the guy is talking about that you quoted is when you are dialing in the bell without the original dowels in the block. When you dial it in with the new dowels have the dowels in and lock them in place once you get intolerance runout and recheck after you lock them in. This is of course assuming you use the RobbMc dowels which are the ONLY dowels available that are the correct MOPAR size of .496 EVERYTHING else for sale by anyone , to dat that I know of , sell FORD .500 dowels as Mopar dowels, they are not.
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: JohnRR]
#1470286
07/26/13 10:22 PM
07/26/13 10:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
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Well I didn't even look for any dowels when I put it together. I just made some quick on the lathe out of a 1/2" bar stock and turned them down until they fit, never gave it a second thought. But any way I just got done measuring stuff and this is what I got. The flywheel is with in .001 of being flat, square to the crank and round. The bell housing when checked for square to the block is within .005 Doing it my self so I was tuff to make sure the crank wasn't moving, I think the actual number may be lower then .005 Bell housing run out measurement I got: 12:00 .005 3:00 .001 6:00 .000 9:00 .003 So that is a run out of .0025, guess my home made dowels aren't to bad. So the good news is that I see nothing here that would cause a vibration. Bad news is I haven't found the issue yet 
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1470289
08/05/13 01:09 PM
08/05/13 01:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
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Just wanted to update that I got the flywheel back, it was out of balance. So much for made in the USA new parts. In the attached picture the hole drilled on the right is how it came from the factory. The four on the left is what they drilled to get it balanced. Then they mounted the pressure plate and had to grind some off of spots on that to get it balanced. Engine is smoother now more inline with what I think it should be. Still have drive line stuff to work out though. 
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I would take the clucth and flywheel to a good a balancing shop and have them spin and check it for balance, make sure and mark the pressure plate as it comes off of the flywheel so you can put it back in the same location for them to check it 
