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Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: vette1986] #1443552
06/11/13 01:10 PM
06/11/13 01:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,537
PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
superwrench Offline
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PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
If the holes are that small (7/64" -1/8"), it shouldn't be the problem. I've been thru all that with my carbs.
You got to get the center carb plates to CLOSE....all the way. The butterfly's must not be straight in the bores or something. Like mentioned, you should be able to loosen off the little brass screws a tad just to get the valves to loosen.
And are you absolutely sure the end carbs are not open a tad as well.....
Hoping to see you get this ironed out and go have some fun...

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: superwrench] #1443553
06/14/13 01:06 PM
06/14/13 01:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,537
PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
superwrench Offline
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superwrench  Offline
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PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
Any Updates ???

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: superwrench] #1443554
08/28/13 03:43 PM
08/28/13 03:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,794
BC Canada
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ogopogo Offline
top fuel
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top fuel
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Posts: 1,794
BC Canada
im following this too,any updates?

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: ogopogo] #1443555
08/28/13 05:30 PM
08/28/13 05:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,347
Wahoo Nebr
vette1986 Offline OP
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Well I got the carbs all figured out as it was the linkage binding as the outboards had the linkage a little too long and this did not allow the center carb(or outboards) to close all the way. Well I got that figured out, the idle down and the timing bumped up and I was rewarded with a set of black marks about 75 feet long as it is a great low end motor. But it seems to lay down a little on the top end when it should not be?? Then to top it off I pulled it into the garage the other day and it would not start(which is in another thread here) and I replaced the fuel pump and today a new chrome mopar ecu showed up and new ballast reistor so we will see if those fix the no fire issue. Hopefully it will start, run smooth and NOT lay down on the top end.


1969.5 A12 Bee EV2
1971 Charger RT
1973 Duster tubbed 500 low deck 10.90 monster
3 440 polara vert projects
Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: vette1986] #1443556
08/28/13 09:03 PM
08/28/13 09:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,347
Wahoo Nebr
vette1986 Offline OP
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Update as I just got done working on it.

Well now I am really getting frustrated as it will not start yet. I have replaced the ecu with chrome mopar one, the resistor with MSD .80, and the fuel pump with a 150 gph mechanical pump. Still did not start. I checked the coin for spark, it has a big spark and about knocked me on my butt as it arched across the metal and came back and hit me! then I pulled a plug wire to make sure it had spark at the plug. Yes it had good spark there. Poured a little gas in the center carb and it fired off.

My only other thoughts are the fuel filter or the sock inside the tank?? I am going to pull the filter tomorrow it is brand new "date code" correct metal one. Has anyone had any problems with those??


1969.5 A12 Bee EV2
1971 Charger RT
1973 Duster tubbed 500 low deck 10.90 monster
3 440 polara vert projects
Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: vette1986] #1443557
08/29/13 12:40 AM
08/29/13 12:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,522
Orleans, Ontario
moparcanuk Offline
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Orleans, Ontario
Try bypassing the fuel filter and see if it starts ok.

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: vette1986] #1443558
08/29/13 08:16 AM
08/29/13 08:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

Update as I just got done working on it.

Well now I am really getting frustrated as it will not start yet. I have replaced the ecu with chrome mopar one, the resistor with MSD .80, and the fuel pump with a 150 gph mechanical pump. Still did not start. I checked the coin for spark, it has a big spark and about knocked me on my butt as it arched across the metal and came back and hit me! then I pulled a plug wire to make sure it had spark at the plug. Yes it had good spark there. Poured a little gas in the center carb and it fired off.

My only other thoughts are the fuel filter or the sock inside the tank?? I am going to pull the filter tomorrow it is brand new "date code" correct metal one. Has anyone had any problems with those??




now you know whythe "shock" people back to life. I'm guessing you have a blockage someplace. Run it straight from the can and see what happens. I had an issue w/ a blue gasket covering a tiny passage in the primary that gave me all kinds of fits.

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1443559
08/29/13 02:21 PM
08/29/13 02:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,794
BC Canada
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ogopogo Offline
top fuel
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BC Canada
Maybe i should start my own thread but:
my six pack hasnt been running super great but i found that the intake was sucking oil so fixed that yesterday.i also tested the outboard carbs with a vaccum pump to make sure they open and they didnt, i used the vac fitting/line that connects all three carbs together,is that the right one?

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: ogopogo] #1443560
08/29/13 07:37 PM
08/29/13 07:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
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Blair County,PA
Quote:

Maybe i should start my own thread but:
my six pack hasnt been running super great but i found that the intake was sucking oil so fixed that yesterday.i also tested the outboard carbs with a vaccum pump to make sure they open and they didnt, i used the vac fitting/line that connects all three carbs together,is that the right one?




Do them individually,if you go off the center port on the Tee,if one leaks you won't know which one.

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: 62maxwgn] #1443561
08/30/13 12:09 PM
08/30/13 12:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,347
Wahoo Nebr
vette1986 Offline OP
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Okay guys I am about ready to send this one to the crusher! If you have followed this post and my other one about it not firing you know I am beating my head against the wall. I parked it in the garage and when I went to fire it the car would start on the initial turn of the key and then die when I let the key back. It did this 3 or 4 times. Well I started to change things to try and get it going. I put a new fuel pump on, no fire and we have fuel at the carbs. I put a new chrome mopar box and new msd resistor on, no fire. I checked the coil and it has good spark, pulled a plug and got a spark to arch out of it. The engine just spins off the starter and has no intention of firing. I am going to try a new set of plugs tonight but I have my doubts that this will do anything. Anyone have any ideas?? I have fuel and spark but no fire??


1969.5 A12 Bee EV2
1971 Charger RT
1973 Duster tubbed 500 low deck 10.90 monster
3 440 polara vert projects
Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: vette1986] #1443562
08/30/13 12:16 PM
08/30/13 12:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
how does your pump shot look? It needs to be a goooood shot. And a cold 6-pack takes some cranking to get fired.. it has alot of plenum space. Like I said I had an issue w/ the blue gasket and a passage, it was blocking the pump shot, you could pump and pump or dump some fuel into the carb and it would fire but only run for a few seconds.

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1443563
08/30/13 12:24 PM
08/30/13 12:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 491
B
BLACKHEMIRR Offline
mopar
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Posts: 491
If it fires when cranking and then shuts off when you release the key, it's probably a problem with the coil primary circuit. The ballast resistor is bypassed when starting and it's in the circuit when running. Try cranking the engine with a remote starter switch (or by jumpering the starter solenoid at the relay) and see if you have spark with the key in the "run" position. If not, the ballast resistor circuit is open. If you've been cranking it for a while, the plugs might be wet. You might want to change them out, too.

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: BLACKHEMIRR] #1443564
08/30/13 09:31 PM
08/30/13 09:31 PM
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Posts: 15,197
Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline
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Omaha Ne
I agree with the above and will add this to hopefully clarify what he is saying,
You have an Ign 1 and Ign 2 circuit. Ign 1 bypasses the ballast and applies full battery voltage to the coil for a hotter spark when starting. Ign 2 goes though the ballast resistor to limit the current through the coil and prevent overheating the coil.

This is a short summary not inteneded to cover the why fores of why it is what it is.
In short ( no pun intended) if it starts in the CRANK position and dies when releasing the key to the "run" position you are not getting voltage to the coil.
Look for a disconnected ballast, (Easily done when re sealing an intake), or a bad ballast. Could be a bulkhead problem, ignition switch problem etc. The most likely candidate is the ballast or connections to it.
To Confirm, Jumper battery Voltage to the coil, hit the key, if it starts and runs your halfway home. UHH do not run it this way for an extended period. you May have to pull the Jumper to shut the motor off. Report back

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: TJP] #1443565
08/31/13 08:36 AM
08/31/13 08:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 668
Hamburg, Pa.
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72 RR DUDE Offline
mopar
72 RR DUDE  Offline
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Hamburg, Pa.
Had the same issue on one of my cars after restoring it and the wires were mixed on the ballast.Try switching the wires.

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: 72 RR DUDE] #1443566
08/31/13 11:23 AM
08/31/13 11:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,347
Wahoo Nebr
vette1986 Offline OP
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Is the ballast directional?


1969.5 A12 Bee EV2
1971 Charger RT
1973 Duster tubbed 500 low deck 10.90 monster
3 440 polara vert projects
Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: vette1986] #1443567
08/31/13 11:29 AM
08/31/13 11:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
water in the gas????

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: vette1986] #1443568
08/31/13 12:47 PM
08/31/13 12:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,537
PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
superwrench Offline
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PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
Quote:

Is the ballast directional?





NO. Get a test light or meter on the ballast while cranking and/or in the run position on the ignition switch.

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: ogopogo] #1443569
08/31/13 01:28 PM
08/31/13 01:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,153
Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
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Quote:

Maybe i should start my own thread but:
my six pack hasnt been running super great but i found that the intake was sucking oil so fixed that yesterday.i also tested the outboard carbs with a vaccum pump to make sure they open and they didnt, i used the vac fitting/line that connects all three carbs together,is that the right one?







Pulling a vacuum on the outboard carbs, whether in a pair or individually is quite different than pulling say: vacuum on a brake system pulling fluid thru a line, the end carbs will only open and stay open with a continuous vacuum source, every time you stroke that mini vac pump the diaphragm's inlet lost the vacuum pull, your better off just pulling a vacuum using your own lungs, either disconnect the linkage from the center carb, or open the center carb to WOT when doing a test of the outboard diaphragms, if your diaphrams open fine, doing a "static" test of them, but still aren't opening under throttle conditions, and you know the end plate throttle blades are not sticking when closed, then either you have the center carb vacuum advance port hooked into the system, or the outboard diaphram springs are too heavy, I like to start with the white springs and work my way up the color spectrum rather than working down from the factory black springs that are often installed in replacement six pack carbs

mike

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: vette1986] #1443570
08/31/13 08:48 PM
08/31/13 08:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 43
Pacific Grove, CA
black68gtx Offline
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Posts: 43
Pacific Grove, CA
Let me just say I feel your pain. I basically have the same issues with my six pack and I'm none the wiser (at this point).

My Challenger will stall when I drop it into drive.

I think that I have found a leak at the 5 and 7 port of the intake, so my next step is to us a filler gasket to close that gap.

Check your coil wire to make sure it's not pinched. When I put mine back on the other day it got caught in the automatic choke housing and was grounding out. It would start but shut down after a few minutes.

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: BSB67] #1443571
08/31/13 09:03 PM
08/31/13 09:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 43
Pacific Grove, CA
black68gtx Offline
member
black68gtx  Offline
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Posts: 43
Pacific Grove, CA
Quote:


Please clarify what you mean by ".... I can not get it to idle below 1000 as we are bottomed out on the idle adjustment ..."

Does this mean that the throttle plates are open as far as possible with the adjustment screw at 1000 rpm, or are they in the closed position?

When at an idle in neutral, if you put you hand over he middle carb to choke it, does the idle speed increase initially before dropping off?....if so, it could be a vacuum leak.




If I can give my after I've adjusted the center and outboards (promax baseplates installed) advanced the timing to where is really healthy, and vacuum is at 18 I'm idling around 1400rpms and I can't get the curb idle screw to get any lower the maybe 1200.

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